May 1 work boycott...

[troung]

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. immigrant rights advocates on Thursday called for a nationwide boycott of work, school and commerce on May 1, seeking to capitalize on the momentum of recent mass demonstrations across the country.

"I don't think we will crumble the economy of the United States on May 1 but we will make a dent," said New York City councilman Charles Barron, among those supporting the initiative that was announced on the steps of City Hall.
The coalition of immigration rights groups aims to stop a proposed U.S. law that would make residing in the United States without papers a felony and require building a tall fence along the U.S.-Mexican border.
Opposition to that bill -- HR 4437, sponsored by Republican Rep. James Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin -- has brought hundreds of thousands to the streets of U.S. cities in recent weeks.
The groups announcing the boycott in New York said they had had the backing of the so-called March 25 Coalition that amassed a huge crowd in Los Angeles.
They are calling on immigrant workers, elected officials, labor unions and churches to "take back" May Day, a public holiday in much of the world but not in the United States, where the international labor day has its origins.
Organizers declined to predict how many people would take part, but they aim to demonstrate how the United States depends on cheap labor and generate more concern for the well-being of America's legal and illegal immigrants.
"We are not going to work. We are not going to buy anything," said Omar Henriquez, head of one New York pro-immigrant group. "They try to demonize us by calling us illegal aliens, but we contribute more to the economy than the miserable salaries that we earn."

[Confed999]

They try to demonize us by calling us illegal aliens

LOL That's what they are! It's like a 6 foot tall dude being mad someone said he was 6 foot tall.

[Confed999]

Oh yeah, and they aren't comming in on the 5th either, but that's normal.

[troung]

Well this stops me from getting fast food for one day... dammit...

Come on they have to at least do a week... or a month... or really show us... and go home...

[gunnut]

This easily remedied. We'll get some other illegals to work the jobs that these illegals won't do.

Their whole premise is they are here to work jobs "Americans don't want to do." If they refuse to do these jobs, then they lose their argument.

[Ray]

I love these type of chaps.

They bring such interesting issues to debate, to go on strike etc.

What's the agenda for the next strike? The right to be thrown into the Atlantic Ocean?

I think they want is a "paperless" immigration and the right to be a "non person" person!

[TopHatter]

Their whole premise is they are here to work jobs "Americans don't want to do." If they refuse to do these jobs, then they lose their argument.

The difficulty with that arguement and subsequent boycott is this: What if the rest of America doesn't feel as much pain as they are expecting from this walk-out? Then what? Nature abhors a vacuum.

Personally, I've enjoyed every day of these protests. Why? Because my customary 45-60 minute drive to work has been cut down to 15-20 minutes.

Some people are losing their jobs because of this, and kids are being suspended from school. Small wonder, since I can't walk out of my job and not expect consequences and when I was in school, if I cut classes, I could expect severe reprisals from the school. Go figure.

Some employers believe in the cause and I know of one restaurant owner that has closed one his businesses (yes, a Mexican restaurant) and given all of the employees there the day off with pay, at least for one day, I don't know about the rest of this week.

[THL]

I am not arguing here "for" or "against" immigrants - illegal or otherwise. I just want to point out one thing that seems to be overlooked when the discussion of illegal immigrants comes up.

In America, at least where I went to school, our history is taught starting with the American, or rather Native American Indians. I remember learning about Christopher Columbus and all the Europeans that came over, all of this. Never once, however, in the 12 years of history taught, do I remember learning anything about there being a vote on if these "new" people got to stay or if they had to leave. They came in, mistakenly called the Natives Indians, since they thought they had landed in the Indies, and then took over.

So now there is a whole new wave of people coming in, maybe trying to take over, but I don't think so, and suddenly, all these people whose ancestors were NOT "Natives" of America are trying to vote against them. Trying to send them away. Trying to make them illegal. What was Christopher Columbus?

"White" people took over this land that was not theirs. Now, many years later, they are getting dose of their own medicine. There is a movie, A Day Without a Mexican where something comes about and everyone with any sort of hispanic heritage dissappears, and the movie depicts the fictional effect on L.A. Definitely not the best movie ever made, the acting could use some help, but surreal in that it hits home. Worth seeing once in a lifetime I think.

LONG BEFORE the white man set foot on American soil, the American Indians, or rather the Native Americans, had been living in America. When the Europeans came here, there were probably about 10 million Indians populating America north of present-day Mexico. And they had been living in America for quite some time. It is believed that the first Native Americans arrived during the last ice-age, approximately 20,000 - 30,000 years ago through a land-bridge across the Bering Sound, from northeastern Siberia into Alaska. The oldest documented Indian cultures in North America are Sandia (15000 BC), Clovis (12000 BC) and Folsom (8000 BC)

Although it is believed that the Indians originated in Asia, few if any of them came from India. The name "Indian" was first applied to them by Christopher Columbus, who believed mistakenly that the mainland and islands of America were part of the Indies, in Asia.

So, when the Europeans started to arrive in the 16th- and 17th-century they were met by Native Americans, and enthusiastically so. The Natives regarded their white-complexioned visitors as something of a marvel, not only for their outlandish dress and beards and winged ships but even more for their wonderful technology - steel knives and swords, fire-belching arquebus and cannon, mirrors, hawkbells and earrings, copper and brass kettles, and so on.

However, conflicts eventually arose. As a starter, the arriving Europeans seemed attuned to another world, they appeared to be oblivious to the rhythms and spirit of nature. Nature to the Europeans - and the Indians detected this - was something of an obstacle, even an enemy. It was also a commodity: A forest was so many board feet of timber, a beaver colony so many pelts, a herd of buffalo so many robes and tongues. Even the Indians themselves were a resource - souls ripe for the Jesuit, Dominican, or Puritan plucking.

It was the Europeans' cultural arrogance, coupled with their materialistic view of the land and its animal and plant beings, that the Indians found repellent. Europeans, in sum, were regarded as something mechanical - soulless creatures who wielded diabolically ingenious tools and weapons to accomplish mad ends.

The Europeans brought with them not only a desire and will to conquer the new continent for all its material richness, but they also brought with them diseases that hit the Indians hard. Conflicts developed between the Native Americans and the Invaders, the latter arriving in overwhelming numbers, as many "as the stars in heaven". The Europeans were accustomed to own land and laid claim to it while they considered the Indians to be nomads with no interest to claim land ownership. The conflicts led to the Indian Wars, the Indian Removal Act empowered by President Andrew Jackson in 1830 and other acts instituted by the Europeans in order to accomplish their objectives, as they viewed them at the time. In these wars the Indian tribes were at a great disadvantage because of their modest numbers, nomadic life, lack of advanced weapons, and unwillingness to cooperate, even in their own defense.

The end of the wars more or less coincided with the end of the 19th century. The last major war was not really a war, it was a massacre in 1890 where Indian warriors, women, and children were slaughtered by U.S. cavalrymen at Wounded Knee, South Dakota, in a final spasm of ferocity.
[I]from here

Where Will Our Children Live...

A lonesome warrior stands in fear of what the future brings,
he will never hear the beating drums or the songs his brothers sing.

Our many nations once stood tall and ranged from shore to shore
but most are gone and few remain and the buffalo roam no more.

We shared our food and our land and gave with open hearts,
We wanted peace and love and hope, but all were torn apart.

All this was taken because we did not know what the white man had in store,
They killed our people and raped our lands and the buffalo roam no more.

But those of us who still remain hold our heads up high, and the spirits of
the elders flow through us as if they never died.

Our dreams will live on forever and our nations will be reborn, our bone and
beads and feathers all will be proudly worn.

If you listen close you will hear the drums and songs upon the winds, and in
the distance you will see....the buffalo roam again.

Submitted by Tommy Flamewalker Manasco

[TopHatter]

In America, at least where I went to school, our history is taught starting with the American, or rather Native American Indians. I remember learning about Christopher Columbus and all the Europeans that came over, all of this. Never once, however, in the 12 years of history taught, do I remember learning anything about there being a vote on if these "new" people got to stay or if they had to leave. They came in, mistakenly called the Natives Indians, since they thought they had landed in the Indies, and then took over.

So now there is a whole new wave of people coming in, maybe trying to take over, but I don't think so, and suddenly, all these people whose ancestors were NOT "Natives" of America are trying to vote against them. Trying to send them away. Trying to make them illegal. What was Christopher Columbus?

While I don't deny the inequity and destruction that occured when Europeans arrived in the Western Hemisphere, I also can't help but note 2 things.

This is 2006, not 1492. We can't answer for what happened hundreds of years ago.
For that matter, when other native tribes encroached upon another's land, there was usually resistance to this, resulting in bloodshed. Whoever was strongest, kept the land. Might Makes Right was basically the rule of thumb. If you were were not equal to the task, your possesions and land were forfeit.
Europeans - whatever methods they used - simply came to the game and won, through might. Was it right? I'm not a philosopher, so I can't say. But it was hardly a new concept to the natives.

Today, unlike 1492, there is a legal and legislative effort being made to settle the issue (yeah, right) to a majority satisfaction, rather than using conventional or biological warfare like the Europeans of old. I'd say things have come along pretty well.

Regardless of what happened in 1492, in 2006 this land is ruled by a legal entity called the United States of America. It has laws and those laws are being broken by people from another country. Most of these people are simply trying to find a better life, and feed their children, since their own country is provide sufficient opportunity for them to do so at home.
Regardless of their motives, regardless of the benefits they provide to Americans for doing the jobs others won't, these people are breaking the law of the land, and causing an economic strain on the resources of local governments.
I put this to you: Why cannot Americans go to Mexico by the millions and flout their laws, then claim racism and prejudice when they are properly arrested and convicted by the Mexican judicial system, AND demand legislation to legalize their activities?

[gunnut]

If you want to argue about these illegals as natives then I would like to ask you why they weren't here on this land already, with the Apaches, the Navajos, the Sioux, the Cherokees, ... etc.

That's because they are NOT native to this land. They and their ancestors belong to a land south of the current day American/Mexican border. They are welcome to come here. All we ask is they go through the proper channel like all the other immigrants from all over the world.

Here's another argument to the "they take jobs Americans won't do" angle. What happens after a generation and all these illegals have kids who are American citizens and they won't take "jobs Americans won't do?" Do we have to import more and more illegals? When does it end?

My solution is simple. Eliminate minimum wage. Eliminate welfare on the federal level. States do as they see fit. Switch federal income tax to a national sales tax. Do these and watch the flow of illegals slow to a trickle.

[THL]

Illegal or legal, it is a FACT that those workers are doing work others do not want to do. Do middle or upper class kids go to college to work in the fields, factories and on farms? No way. I sure as hell am not going to do it. I am, instead, going to appreciate that someone else is doing it.

As for their kids then growing up and taking the "better" jobs...most of the time that is not the case. Yes there are instances, but these people are not living in high or middle class places. These kids are not getting top notch educations. They are not usually growing up to be CEOs or upper management workers.

For you, TH - Americans can go there and "flaunt" whatever laws we want. We just don't.

The simple fact is that I am willing to bet there is no one on this board, residing in the US, that is not the direct result of an immigrant. All our ancestors came here from somewhere else...both legally and illegally. How can we say that we must send all the illegal immigrants that are already here back to their home countries when most of us, certainly I, should not be here?

What a bunch of hypocrites we can be. I am not saying that we should be letting everyone who feels like coming to the US come in with full citizenship, but to try and send the ones that are already here and have already established themselves as decent hardworking people back to their home countries I do not think is right.

[gunnut]

Illegal or legal, it is a FACT that those workers are doing work others do not want to do. Do middle or upper class kids go to college to work in the fields, factories and on farms? No way. I sure as hell am not going to do it. I am, instead, going to appreciate that someone else is doing it.

Let the free market work its magic and Americans will take these jobs. The reason we refuse to take these jobs is because of all sorts of socialist policies we have in place that prevents people from working, rather than encourage people to work.

Remove minimum wage and watch these jobs get filled by Americans. The higher the minimum wage, the less likely we'll work the low end jobs.

The simple fact is that I am willing to bet there is no one on this board, residing in the US, that is not the direct result of an immigrant. All our ancestors came here from somewhere else...both legally and illegally. How can we say that we must send all the illegal immigrants that are already here back to their home countries when most of us, certainly I, should not be here?

We aren't saying that. We just want them to respect our point of view and respect our laws.

I'm willing to bet most of us here are legal immigrants or decendants of legal immigrants.

I like immigrants. We're all immigrants. We merely ask that our laws and rules be observed and respected.

[THL]

Let the free market work its magic and Americans will take these jobs. The reason we refuse to take these jobs is because of all sorts of socialist policies we have in place that prevents people from working, rather than encourage people to work.

Remove minimum wage and watch these jobs get filled by Americans. The higher the minimum wage, the less likely we'll work the low end jobs.

Where is this money going to come from to pay higher wages? What kid is going to go to college just to work @ McDonalds? None. Do you have any idea what McDonalds would have to pay me to make me quit my job and work for them? It would not happen.

This is a nice thought you have, but it would not work out. Not enough people are willing to get up and do hard manual labor.

The US is one of, if not THE, strongest country in the world. We are also made up of a vast number of immigrants and immigrants dependants. Something is being done right. People come from other countries with skills & work ethics that we dont have.

[gunnut]

Where is this money going to come from to pay higher wages? What kid is going to go to college just to work @ McDonalds? None. Do you have any idea what McDonalds would have to pay me to make me quit my job and work for them? It would not happen.

This is a nice thought you have, but it would not work out. Not enough people are willing to get up and do hard manual labor.

You don't want to work at McDs because there's a minimum wage of $5.75 and they pay only $7 (I believe).

Would you work at McDs if it paid 3 times the minimum wage? How about 4 times? 6 times?

Now imagine a world where the minimum wage is ZERO, and McDs offer $4. Would you work there? How about $7?

What minimum wage does is artificially inflate the absolute wage. It does nothing to the real wage. In fact it depresses real wage because of its inflationary effect on prices.

Let's say I make $12/hr and the minimum wage is at $6/hr. I take my job because it's worth my time to me. My time is worth twice the minimum wage. Some socialist comes around and bumps minimum wage to $15/hr (drastic example, I know). Now I make $15/hr. Did I just get a raise?

These illegals take the low paying jobs because of the inflationary effect of the minimum wage law. It artificially increases even the underground economy. Paying someone $4/hr is worth it because it's below the minimum wage now, where as it's not worth it if there had been not minimum wage.

[dalem]

THL, the difference is that there are accepted laws and borders and the like. All of the people that want to come here can come here just like everyone else has come here for the last 200 years - by following the law.

They violate that law and they are automatically reduced in stature and consideration. Same as would happen if I snuck into Mexico and hoisted the American flag and shouted for rights. Oh, except in Mexico I'd get my a55 kicked, thrown in jail, all my money taken, get my a55 kicked again, then punted back across the border with apologies to Mexico from the American govt.

This is a many-layered problem with no simple solution, but the root of the problem is that we live next door to a retarded neighbor family with perfectly normal children who keep running into our house and setting up shop. The fact that their parents are retarded isn't the kids' fault, but their behavior is still wrong and needs to be dealt with. After all, we're not here to feed the neighborhood.

The past is the past, and I don't give a sh!t about who was originally in Germania, or where the Aztecs went, or why there are no more Pelopponesians, or what kind of damage to Saxon culture the Normans did, or how we pushed the Indians aside, or any of that crap. Today we have nations, borders, and laws, and today people must follow them.

-dale

I am not arguing here "for" or "against" immigrants - illegal or otherwise. I just want to point out one thing that seems to be overlooked when the discussion of illegal immigrants comes up.

In America, at least where I went to school, our history is taught starting with the American, or rather Native American Indians. I remember learning about Christopher Columbus and all the Europeans that came over, all of this. Never once, however, in the 12 years of history taught, do I remember learning anything about there being a vote on if these "new" people got to stay or if they had to leave. They came in, mistakenly called the Natives Indians, since they thought they had landed in the Indies, and then took over.

So now there is a whole new wave of people coming in, maybe trying to take over, but I don't think so, and suddenly, all these people whose ancestors were NOT "Natives" of America are trying to vote against them. Trying to send them away. Trying to make them illegal. What was Christopher Columbus?

"White" people took over this land that was not theirs. Now, many years later, they are getting dose of their own medicine. There is a movie, A Day Without a Mexican where something comes about and everyone with any sort of hispanic heritage dissappears, and the movie depicts the fictional effect on L.A. Definitely not the best movie ever made, the acting could use some help, but surreal in that it hits home. Worth seeing once in a lifetime I think.