Thread: What if: Germany went ahead with Operation Sea Lion?

How many fully equipped Canadian divisions were in Britain at the time?

What happens when Stalin goes west in 42 or 43? Specially as Romania and Bulgaria are unlikely to join Germany after Sea Lion fails.

I was thinking that you once theorized that Churchill might have allied with Hitler against Stalin ... and I need an aspirin.

A.There is no way Romania does not becomes a German ally against the Soviet Union.USSR was a mortal threat and only Germany was available and willing to fight them.
B.There is also no way Churchill turns into one of Hitler's allies.But there are plenty of ways for the British Empire to become neutral.
C.Seelowe failure or not,war with USSR was coming.If Germany did not attacked in June '41 it would have been forced to a war under much less favourable conditions in Fall '41 or in 1942.

I don't see Bulgaria not aligning, too. They allied with the Germans only to be occupying force in the neighboring countries in the territories they consider Bulgarian.

They never sent troops vs USSR, nor they had a real fight during WWII.

Originally Posted by gunnut

The other thread talking about U-boat vs surface combatant drifted into the discussion of Operation Sea Lion. The consensus was that Germany did not have the logistic capability to pull it off.

Hitler was not a mere mortal to be detered by reason, on many occassions.

What if he ordered the invasion of England and actually landed a couple of divisions in Dover?

Those troops would probably be wiped out, but not before a bloody battle against the remnants of the British Expeditionary Force and the Home Guard. Germany would do what it could to supply the troops for as long as possible. In the end, Germany would lose Operation Sea Lion.

That's not the important thing though, in my opinion.

The important thing is what followed the cancelled Operation Sea Lion...Operation Barbarossa.

I am an optimist when others are pessimistic. I am a pessimist when others are optimistic. Losing Operation Sea Lion could have been the best thing that ever happened to the Third Reich.

Had Hitler gone ahead with the invasion of Britain, and suffered a humiliating defeat, he may not have had the prestige or resources to invade the Soviet Union. It may have been more politically expedient for Hitler to sit back and consolidate his gains in Europe, and settle for a peace treaty with the United Kingdom.

Both UK and Germany needed to re-arm and recuperate after the big battle.

Soviet Union, fresh off the Purge, needed to reconstitude its officer corp, and develop a new doctrine to fight Blitzkrieg.

If Europe settled on an uneasy peace in 1940 and 1941, Japan may not have attacked the US at Pearl Harbor.

China would be supplied by both USSR and the US to fight the Japanese to a standstill.

The world could be a very different place...

The general consensus is IMHO wrong , germany did have the logistic capability, what it did lacked, was the ability to protect and
maintain that capability in the face of enemy interference.
As ilustrated by the tunisian campaign , germany deployed a army size formation on a foreign shore only to be encircled and destroyed,
without the means of protecting its LOC.
As for the chance of peace in 1940, the ocupation of southern france and a more agresive policy in the Med are just as likely.

Originally Posted by Parihaka

How many fully equipped Canadian divisions were in Britain at the time?

at least one, it was place in reserve and commited in case of a german landing in the kent area afaik.

Originally Posted by Mihais

C.Seelowe failure or not,war with USSR was coming.If Germany did not attacked in June '41 it would have been forced to a war under much less favourable conditions in Fall '41 or in 1942.

c mon Mihais
you are usually more optimistic than that ,
No second Tannenberg ?

Originally Posted by 1979

c mon Mihais
you are usually more optimistic than that ,
No second Tannenberg ?

The later history doesn't give a reason for optimism.
Unless the whole war turns into Axis vs USSR, with the rest of the world watching the fireworks.

It one thing to die for motherland and another to die trying to bring the benefits of comunism to the german proletariat.

Who said anything about the proletariat?

If Germany and GB arranged peace, Hitler was going to attack USSR anyway.

Originally Posted by Doktor

Who said anything about the proletariat?

If Germany and GB arranged peace, Hitler was going to attack USSR anyway.

well that is my understanding of : .If Germany did not attacked in June '41 it would have been forced to a war under much less favourable conditions in Fall '41 or in 1942
you did read my previous replies ?

WRT other topic merlin production began in 1941.

A pistol to the head and/or to the heads of one's family is known to produce a lot of enthusiasm for a fight.There's one thing to turn against the Soviets when their power seems to be crumbling and quite another to face the risks when they're in control.There may be Tannenbergs,but there are also plenty of Brusilovs in the Red Army

I have problems with the version of USSR attacking Germany first.

Stalin was so confident in the NAP he had with Hitler he never bothered to react on the reports from Berlin about Barbarossa.

Moreover, in 1940 Ribbentrop and Hitler were proposed by Molotov USSR to be an Axis power.