Are our Soldiers incompetent?

giggs88 · 11-29-2005, 18:00 PM

Quote:

The overwhelming assessment by Asian officials, diplomats and analysts is that the U.S. military simply cannot defeat China. It has been an assessment relayed to U.S. government officials over the past few months by countries such as Australia, Japan and South Korea. This comes as President Bush wraps up a visit to Asia, in which he sought to strengthen U.S. ties with key allies in the region.

Most Asian officials have expressed their views privately. Tokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara has gone public, warning that the United States would lose any war with China.

"In any case, if tension between the United States and China heightens, if each side pulls the trigger, though it may not be stretched to nuclear weapons, and the wider hostilities expand, I believe America cannot win as it has a civic society that must adhere to the value of respecting lives," Mr. Ishihara said in an address to the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Mr. Ishihara said U.S. ground forces, with the exception of the Marines, are "extremely incompetent" and would be unable to stem a Chinese conventional attack. Indeed, he asserted that China would not hesitate to use nuclear weapons against Asian and American cities—even at the risk of a massive U.S. retaliation.

The governor said the U.S. military could not counter a wave of millions of Chinese soldiers prepared to die in any onslaught against U.S. forces. After 2,000 casualties, he said, the U.S. military would be forced to withdraw.

"Therefore, we need to consider other means to counter China," he said. "The step we should be taking against China, I believe, is economic containment."

Officials acknowledge that Mr. Ishihara's views reflect the widespread skepticism of U.S. military capabilities in such countries as Australia, India, Japan, Singapore and South Korea. They said the U.S.-led war in Iraq has pointed to the American weakness in low-tech warfare.

"When we can't even control parts of Anbar, they get the message loud and clear," an official said, referring to the flashpoint province in western Iraq.

As a result, Asian allies of the United States are quietly preparing to bolster their militaries independent of Washington. So far, the Bush administration has been strongly opposed to an indigenous Japanese defense capability, fearing it would lead to the expulsion of the U.S. military presence from that country.

On Nov. 16, Mr. Bush met with Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi. The two leaders discussed the realignment of the U.S. military presence in Japan and Tokyo's troop deployment in Iraq.

During his visit to Washington in early November, Mr. Ishihara met senior U.S. defense officials. They included talks with U.S. Defense Deputy Undersecretary for Asian and Pacific Affairs Richard Lawless to discuss the realignment of the U.S. military presence in Japan.

For his part, Mr. Ishihara does not see China as evolving into a stable democracy with free elections.

"I believe such predictions are totally wrong," Mr. Ishihara said.

The Governor of Tokyo seems to think so.

Major Dad · 11-29-2005, 19:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giggs88

The Governor of Tokyo seems to think so.

Yet another reason to re-examine our "commitment to defend Japan".

platinum786 · 11-29-2005, 19:48 PM

now why defend japan....we seem to forget what these people did 60 years ago...

they know the chinese are baying for blood, they screwed the chinese during ww2.

i don't thinkt he USA has the capability to repel a chinese invasion of Japan, but i don't think the chinese can cross into japan either.

China doesn't have the naval or airforce power to defeat the US to cross...
but if it did, the US down't have the land forces to stop it, as china could commit everything, and the USA probably couldn't.

In all honesty i don't see you defending anyone, why should you? why risk huge damage in your own nation including probable and eventaul nuclear strikes, to protect someone else, you will never go 100% for someone else...i wouldn't...especially if i knew that soemone else had wronged.

giggs88 · 11-29-2005, 19:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Dad

Yet another reason to re-examine our "commitment to defend Japan".

I don't know.

He's only saying that our soldiers are incompetent. He isn't supporting China or anything.

I think he's assuming that because there are many guard and reserve members in Iraq, who are not as well trained as active-duty soldiers..

just my 0.2$.

Praxus · 11-29-2005, 19:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giggs88

I don't know.

He's only saying that our soldiers are incompetent. He isn't supporting China or anything.

I think he's assuming that because there are many guard and reserve members in Iraq, who are not as well trained as active-duty soldiers..

just my 0.2$.

I think this article is BS or he's full of BS. It's that simple.

**Parihaka** · 11-29-2005, 20:10 PM

Quote:

Officials acknowledge that Mr. Ishihara's views reflect the widespread skepticism of U.S. military capabilities in such countries as Australia, India, Japan, Singapore and South Korea. They said the U.S.-led war in Iraq has pointed to the American weakness in low-tech warfare.

Wrong wrong & wrong. I know Australia has no such opinion, I know that both Australia & New Zealands military are desperately scrambling to catch up with the new doctrines learnt from the US's involvement in Iraq and finally any war with China would be high-tech not low-tech. The governor of Tokyo is an ass.

Oh, and the US forces have done a remarkable job of adapting quickly to new combat techniques in Iraq. Lets see the PLA adapt so quickly.

Major Dad · 11-29-2005, 23:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giggs88

I don't know.

He's only saying that our soldiers are incompetent. He isn't supporting China or anything.

So if they're incompetent, it should make no difference if we re-deploy them all elsewhere, right? And let the fearsome might of the JSDF (

) hold the Chinese at bay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by giggs88

I think he's assuming that because there are many guard and reserve members in Iraq, who are not as well trained as active-duty soldiers..

just my 0.2$.

I disagree. I think the ones who are still there, and not dead or wounded, are every bit as well trained as any active-duty troop.

giggs88 · 11-29-2005, 23:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Dad

I disagree. I think the ones who are still there, and not dead or wounded, are every bit as well trained as any active-duty troop.

I have to disagree with you. One weekend a month and two weeks a year Soldiers are just as well-trained as full-time Soldiers?

**Officer of Engineers** · 11-30-2005, 00:10 AM

There is such a thing as full time reserves. However, qualifications should be identicle between regforce and the res. In addition, res are supposed to have 90-120 days to rev up before deployment, at least in the CF.

As for the article itself, it's pure BS. The US has been trying for decades for their Asian allies to carry a bigger load. Thus far, only Taiwan seemed to be stepping up, at least financially, but their training is inadequate.

Leader · 11-30-2005, 00:47 AM

"i don't thinkt he USA has the capability to repel a chinese invasion of Japan"

Well they wouldn't have much to return to in China

Major Dad · 11-30-2005, 00:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giggs88

I have to disagree with you. One weekend a month and two weeks a year Soldiers are just as well-trained as full-time Soldiers?

One weekend a month and two weeks a year and a few months in a combat zone. Damm right. Also, speaking as a retired Air Force Reservist, we were far more effective than our active duty counterparts because we were all former active duty ourselves and had 4 or 5 times as many flying hours than any of the active duty squadrons could boast.

EricTheRed · 11-30-2005, 01:41 AM

Well if Japan does not think we can protect them they can build an Army and let them help.

lemontree · 11-30-2005, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giggs88

He's only saying that our soldiers are incompetent.

After interacting with so many US and european officers on WAB I can say that the above statement is BS.
After knowing Bill (Sniper), I can close my eyes and chose him as my buddy in operations any day, I will blindly follow commands from an officer like the Colonel and have faith in the support that shek will provide with his unit.
(My apologies to other service personnel for not including their names. People like VVV, ARG_cpl, Gun Grape etc....)

leib10 · 11-30-2005, 11:03 AM

Well, I'm glad that the good Tokyo governor has informed us of this, based on his own extensive experience.

Ray · 11-30-2005, 11:11 AM

One must understand the rationale behind the statement or views of Mr Ishihara before flying off the handle with patriotic "who flung dung" and petty jingoism.

I think Mr Ishihara is scared out of his wits; and so this statement so that the US gets it act together.

Japan has been a steadfast ally of the US and continue to do so, so much so that they have sent elements of their so called "Self Defence Force" to Iraq which technically violates their Constitution! One can always quibble about the finer issues, but that is not material.

There are nations, who have no hassle with their Constitutions about sending forces and they haven't sent and yet, on the other hand, Japan has sent some troops and so the intent and the steadfastness of Japan to the US cannot be turned a Nelson's eye or cause anyone to have thoughts about reassessing the defence of Japan courtsey the US.

Further, it is very easy to state that one should reassess the defence of Japan with US help and that the US should quit or reassess. The global geostrategic environment does not permit that luxury of the US. One must understand that and it is crystal clear that it is in the interest of the US also to hang in Japan.

In so far as competence of the US soldier is concerned, I haven't seen them in combat and so it would not be fair to comment. However, the following issues [based on the reports in the open forum and hence it may not be correct in totality] one may like to consider (and I am not fan of China):

1. Compare the stoic of the US soldier with the Chinese soldier.

2. It requires 50 tons to sustain a US soldier but only a few kilogrammes for a Chinese soldier.

3. Body bags make no difference to the Chinese or even other Asiatic nations.

4. Low tech warfare is indeed not the US' kettle of fish.

5. Compare the patience of the Chinese vs the US. Apply it to the soldiers!

6. Revisit the Korean war dispassionately and examine the issues.

I am aware that I will face a lot of flak, but then it does not matter.

Jingosim is good....to a point, that is.

Pragmatic approach will win you wars!

11-30-2005, 00:10 AM	#9 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 15,915 Country:	There is such a thing as full time reserves. However, qualifications should be identicle between regforce and the res. In addition, res are supposed to have 90-120 days to rev up before deployment, at least in the CF. As for the article itself, it's pure BS. The US has been trying for decades for their Asian allies to carry a bigger load. Thus far, only Taiwan seemed to be stepping up, at least financially, but their training is inadequate. __________________ Chimo Last edited by Officer of Engineers : 11-30-2005 at 00:13 AM.

11-30-2005, 00:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
Leader Ubi dubium ibi libertas *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 09-04-03 Location: Boston, MA, USPRA Posts: 5,124	"i don't thinkt he USA has the capability to repel a chinese invasion of Japan" Well they wouldn't have much to return to in China __________________ "Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have." "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" NEVER FORGET

11-30-2005, 01:41 AM	#12 (permalink)
EricTheRed Contributor Join Date: 02-12-05 Location: Texas, USA Posts: 322	Well if Japan does not think we can protect them they can build an Army and let them help. __________________ "Acquire a peaceful spirit, and around you thousands will be saved." - Saint Seraphim of Sarov

11-30-2005, 11:03 AM	#14 (permalink)
leib10 HKHolic *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 02-17-05 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 3,240 Country:	Well, I'm glad that the good Tokyo governor has informed us of this, based on his own extensive experience. __________________ "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

11-30-2005, 11:11 AM	#15 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 26,144 Country:	One must understand the rationale behind the statement or views of Mr Ishihara before flying off the handle with patriotic "who flung dung" and petty jingoism. I think Mr Ishihara is scared out of his wits; and so this statement so that the US gets it act together. Japan has been a steadfast ally of the US and continue to do so, so much so that they have sent elements of their so called "Self Defence Force" to Iraq which technically violates their Constitution! One can always quibble about the finer issues, but that is not material. There are nations, who have no hassle with their Constitutions about sending forces and they haven't sent and yet, on the other hand, Japan has sent some troops and so the intent and the steadfastness of Japan to the US cannot be turned a Nelson's eye or cause anyone to have thoughts about reassessing the defence of Japan courtsey the US. Further, it is very easy to state that one should reassess the defence of Japan with US help and that the US should quit or reassess. The global geostrategic environment does not permit that luxury of the US. One must understand that and it is crystal clear that it is in the interest of the US also to hang in Japan. In so far as competence of the US soldier is concerned, I haven't seen them in combat and so it would not be fair to comment. However, the following issues [based on the reports in the open forum and hence it may not be correct in totality] one may like to consider (and I am not fan of China): 1. Compare the stoic of the US soldier with the Chinese soldier. 2. It requires 50 tons to sustain a US soldier but only a few kilogrammes for a Chinese soldier. 3. Body bags make no difference to the Chinese or even other Asiatic nations. 4. Low tech warfare is indeed not the US' kettle of fish. 5. Compare the patience of the Chinese vs the US. Apply it to the soldiers! 6. Revisit the Korean war dispassionately and examine the issues. I am aware that I will face a lot of flak, but then it does not matter. Jingosim is good....to a point, that is. Pragmatic approach will win you wars! __________________ "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination." I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to. HAKUNA MATATA Last edited by Ray : 11-30-2005 at 11:17 AM.

11-29-2005, 19:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
platinum786 Banished Join Date: 06-14-04 Posts: 1,986	now why defend japan....we seem to forget what these people did 60 years ago... they know the chinese are baying for blood, they screwed the chinese during ww2. i don't thinkt he USA has the capability to repel a chinese invasion of Japan, but i don't think the chinese can cross into japan either. China doesn't have the naval or airforce power to defeat the US to cross... but if it did, the US down't have the land forces to stop it, as china could commit everything, and the USA probably couldn't. In all honesty i don't see you defending anyone, why should you? why risk huge damage in your own nation including probable and eventaul nuclear strikes, to protect someone else, you will never go 100% for someone else...i wouldn't...especially if i knew that soemone else had wronged.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
A Soldier's Story	Shek	The War in Iraq	4	05-22-2007 17:00 PM
IDF trend: Soldiers playing with guns.	troung	Israeli-Palestinian Conflict	7	05-25-2006 09:12 AM
Army Exceeding Retention Goals as Recruitment Suffers	Shek	The War in Iraq	0	12-18-2005 12:22 PM
Gates of Fire	Shek	The War in Iraq	6	08-26-2005 11:40 AM
Some perspective on the Humvee Controversy from Soldiers	Leader	The Western Alliance	2	12-12-2004 19:25 PM