Leader

Yes

Wrong, but since you know nothing about the US you wouldn't know that.

We made a mistake 14 years ago and now we are fixing it along with the mistakes made by Europeans about a century ago that created the state of Iraq which never should have existed to begin with.

oh please... They were bribed into "foreseeing" it I suppose?

I call them immoral.

The hell I do. We are better off without the French and the Germans, both militarily and politically. Don't assume what my opinion of sometime is based on you misunderstanding of America.

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Leader

"Aimed" can be somewhat questioned. However they clearly have laws on the books that keep these people downtrodden. In addition, they made no effort to integrate these people into French society. They live in ghettos where the French police rarely patrol.

Sameer

The French state does not engage in discriminationary practices against people of North African origin. AND NO, its not that some are illegals, French estimates indicate that at least 60% of them are and half of the 40% legal used to be illegal until given French citizenship in the early 90s part of the French govt plan.

The people are rioting because there are no jobs in France. This is because the French quasi socialist state is almost bankrupt and has stupid labor laws making it almost impossible to fire a worker, this makes employers nervous about hirering and wages are kept low (remember this is the country where an employer has to give 5 weeks holiday every summer to employees). Also the French state gives many unemployed ppl money part of the state social welfare plan, so all the North Africans get together and rent one apartment and 10 guys get a good 500 Euros each and all live together.

It is an economic problem because there are one too many lefties in power in France and reform of anything gets the powerful unions a chance to strike. Poor North Africans also have many kids and tend to be conservative Muslims and have failed to adapt to the French way of life. They live in segregated communities in bans lieux and are well dispised by the general population who stereotypes them as being gangster rappers and lazy. But as said before, its not only their fault, the economy sucks big time.

Bulgaroctonus

I know that France is a secular country. Somewhat wrote that its hypocritical that the French don't mind the Cross, but can't stand the Crescent. My post merely showed why that is the case. Also, many French schools don't like any show of religiosity.

France is sometimes arrogant and rascist, but I'll try and view the situation through their eyes:

Imagine you're in France and everyone tells you that history's sun is setting on your fair country. This is a depressing thing, knowing that its your culture's turn to fade away. Although everything must pass, it is still saddening to see all that your forbears have worked for slowly slide into obsolescence. The French watch as the future belongs to more vigorous people, perhaps the same way that the Byzantines watched pathetically as the youthful Turks took Asia Minor.

So, their culture, and perhaps Europe as a whole is dying. I hope this isn't true, but it seems like that might be the case.

Is the solution then to lay down arms? Do we expect the French so say, "To hell with, come ye Eastern hordes!" Are they expected to let down their borders, to renege on French culture?

Perhaps what we see is desperation, the last flare of decadence that comes before the fall. At least we can still see French culture, a bit of Europe before the end.

Maybe the French should let things flow and adopt a true, free market economy. But I wonder if that will really do anything. After all, to be truly competitive, their people may have to take large salary cuts. In either case, free-market or socialism, Europe has trouble. I think the only way out is a strong European Union. This would create an economic bloc on par with the U.S. and China.

The fact that the objections to Muslims and immigrants come from nationalist groups does not greatly change the situation. As a American (transplated European), I will frankly admit that I don't like the idea of Asian dominance in the future. I'd like European and U.S. culture to stay on top, and the U.S. to remain the dominant power ad infinitum.

Call me a bigot.

Sameer

The French will never reform because unions have branded moving to the right (in terms of economics) = being more Americans.

Until their fetish of being Anti US stops, they will continue to be lefties and continue to suffer from low productivity, low GDP growth rates and hence, high unemployment.

Sameer

"Call me a bigot"

You are not a bigot, you are simply out of sink with the reality of world economics.

Asia is big, which country do you feel threatened from?

Sameer

Japan, South Korea, Thailand, India etc are no threat to Euro culture or American culture, in fact they have embraced it already, I say this as an Indian who lives in India most of the year and notices the reality before my eyes.


The only Asian threat is China and the only other nuisiance is Islamic fundamentalism.

Sameer

Europe is too socialist, too leftie to be able to maintain high enough GDP growth to keep up with rising Asia and the US in the long run,see Sachs report....

Asian culture is mute, its Americanized already.

Before 1700, China and India accounted for 55% of total world output, noone ever expected them to stay in the single digits forever, your children will adapt, dont you worry. Humans do not like change but its part of life.

Bulgaroctonus

I've already answered this point in my reply to Sameer.

By the same logic, America should be crawling with every ethnicity we've ever shoved around. There is not a law of 'colonization equality' whereby the colonizing nation must endure swarms of its former subjects.

'What they have coming'? So, America wiped out the Native Americans, used Atomic Bombs on Japan, etc. It is silly to try and place grand historical responsibilities on nations, because we all have blood on our hands.

I do not agree with the recent, conservative American, hatred of France. I assume that the above statement is a product of this collective idiocy. France has had a monumental contribution to Western culture and science.

Sameer

And you cant possibly fear Russia, they have the world's hottest chicks.

Sameer

Back to France though, they have some very tough anti terror laws that will make the post 01 US laws look nice.

Bulgaroctonus

America would not exist without European ideas. The foundation of our free market system lies with Adam Smith (Scottish). Our constitution comes from John Locke (English), Jean Jacques Rousseau (French), and many other English and French men during the Enlightenment. Our imperialism comes perhaps from Rome, and long may it last.

Our blood and bones, at least mine, have their origins in Europe. We are transplanted Europeans. Why do we abandon our parents so quickly?

Bulgaroctonus

China.

Sameer

You know mate, you should fear them, i work in th field of finance, you cant possibly imagine how many billions upon billions of US denominated assets the Chinese own.


But the good news is that the Chinese leadership are chess players, keep on outplaying them and they will never attack. Unlike Osama and friends who are irational lads.

Sameer

People are becoming to selfish and too busy thinking about how to make money to care about American dominance or Asian expected prosperity anymore, in the future, the free market will make thepossibility of a costly war minimal, only countries that fail to intergrate will pose threats. Even in China, they love American cars, American products, do not confuse American culture with its European roots, it has changed and is accepted willingly or unwillingly across the world because its well marketed.