Julie

Bless you my child.

Officer of Engineers

Listen here, good man, your experience ain't unique here and there are three of us here who has seen more action than you and served far longer than you.

There are 3 of us here with long time command experience and you don't know the headaches and heartaches of integration that we went through.

There are good women soldiers and there are bad women soldiers. Women have their place in the military, no question, but it's certainly not amongst the line troops to which very few can qualify for the regular infantry and none for the light infantry.

__________________
Chimo

roadKill

You don't even know me. Frankly, I don't care either. You're trying to start some pissing contest on who has served more, don't care about that either. Not going to get one out of me. Oh, should I call you "Sir" too? **** you "Sir".

Anon

"I served in the Army for 4-years and 10-years after as a contractor."

I served 4 years in the Army, and now i'm self employed. So please, allow me to retort.

"Having women serving in the military was a real blessing. It gives you a reality check & good feeling."

Um, huh? What sort of reality check, and what sort of good feeling?

"I found the women more reliable than men when it came to the following out of orders."

Except when they get knocked up to avoid a duty assignment or go over your head to allege sexual harrasment because you actually expect them to do what they're supposed to do.

There are plenty of crack female troops from a discipline and order standpoint, but there are plenty that suck too.

"You can count on the them!"

Sometimes. Just the same as men. Sometimes you can't. Just the same as men.

"These ****ing guys posting that women are "this or that" don't know ****. I was in a half of dozen firefights in Panama, never had a problem with the gals."

Oh yeah? Hmmm. I was there too. I don't seem to recall any females in combat down there. Not even in the MPs(at least that i ever heard). Please do, illuminate us with these tales of female prowess on the battlefields of Panama...because i was there and somehow i saw none of that.

How odd...

Confed999

You can learn from his experience. Anyway, you came into this thread throwing insults: "These ****ing guys posting that women are "this or that" don't know ****.". Tone it down please...

__________________
No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

Confed999

Have no idea of it's accuracy but...
"Several hundred Army and Air Force women were a part of this operation. Army women flew Blackhawks ferrying infantry troops and supplies, often under enemy fire. Air Force women flew cargo and refueling missions, also under fire.

Women members of the Military Police engaged enemy soldiers and hostile civilans in order to secure key positions"

"Women also performed in Intelligence, Signal Corps, Finance, and Special Ops. They were there as aircraft commanders, pilots, navigators, flight engineers, loadmasters, logistics, truck drivers, maintenance and administrative support personnel. "

"Women made up more than four per cent of the invasion force ...but they were 'not considered as having been in combat.' "

SOURCE

Anon

You tell us you want us to give credence to your judgement of soldiers, but yet you refer to a respected board member and former NATO field grade officer with the F word?

Jackass.

Anon

Thanx confed. If 4% of the force was female, and a small handful of those exchanged fire, it's no wonder i never heard anything about it.

Honestly, i don't think i saw 20 women down there during the whole op.

Officer of Engineers

Women has seen combat and women will continue to see combat in the roles they're serviving in. However, that is a far cry from women actually being able to do a combat role. No offense to the women, most women who has seen combat did not see combat lasting more than a couple of hours. Most line infantry companies saw combat lasting days and in the case of some elite light units, 21 SAS in Afghanistan, HTH combat lasting hours.

roadKill

Woman not in combat in Panama, what are you smoking? I knew a half of dozen!Excuse me if getting ambushed as MPs, having a guy you know get killed, & only a 20 second episode as a first combat experience is not good enough. The other fighting wasn't some long drawn out war movie. So maybe I'm not a green beret & was only green, oh well. Being an MP typically isn't frontline stuff, so what? The enemy doesn't take a survey before opening up. I served with women being fired upon, they did just fine. Far as not recognizing this Officer of Engineers as a "better military MAN" (note, I didn't say woman), if he is such a leader, he should be able to handle a grunt loser like me. I was 21 years old, 3 years removed from high school on the GI-Bill, I really never cared about officers anyhow, I just wanted to get back home alive. Sniperman, please excuse me if I don't suck OOE off.

Leaders don't ask for respect, it's something you earn.

"Promote them all. If you haven't got a ******* from a superior officer, than you are just letting the best things in life pass you on." -Jack in Few Good Men
"Harold, you don't need a badge to have honor." -Tom in Few Good Men

Now, to both Sniperman & OOE, come to St. Louis, I know a couple of woman that will beat your ass in hand to hand combat. Oh, that's "SIR" to you.

Officer of Engineers

1st of all, I don't have to prove squat to you. You've already shown that you don't know crap. I have not shown you any disrespect but you apparently have a corn stuck up high somewhere. I pointed out to you that your experience and short tenure is no measure of measuring the hell of integrating women into combat units.

I'm also a hell of alot older than you and you have nothing to impress me about women.

Lastly, you have shown yourself the door. I will say goodbye to you now.

roadKill

That's what I thought, you waited ALL DAY just to repost against me! Posting minutes after I post! Turn your computer off & leave, you are such a great leader hiding behind your computer. Don't even play the OLD CARD with me now. Here's when one for you: OLD PEOPLE CAN'T HANDLE INTERNET COMBAT UNLESS YOU WORSHIP THEM. I was a grunt in the military & proudly served IN A COMBAT SITUATION WITH WOMEN. Sorry if we didn't meet your expectations. Now, go drink your warm milk, turn off your computer, I'm done with you, "SIR, you are dismissed".

Officer of Engineers

I had thought to let you cool and allow things to go. However, you've refused. I don't have to do anything else. You've violated the forum rules, not me. Good bye.

Confed999

No Sir, you are dismissed...

bonehead

Moving along.

Combat is psychological as well as physical. If the women have the motivation and the mininum physical skills, she should be able to serve like her male counterparts.

Most of the problems with women in combat that I know of are coming from either the brass, or the males. The brass is holding onto the traditional "men only" idealisms and tradition. The military has perfectec the art of war using only men. Like it or not, the military will have to adapt for the women. There have been some changes, but they have been a long time in coming. The foot dragging, stonewalling, and discrimination and intimidation must stop. I hope the military is smart and wise enough to adapt in the best manner possible, but sometimes I have my doubts. Some of the pig headed policies about fraternization in the past were a complete failure, as well as the butt of Letterman and Leno jokes. The days of the male military fraternity and, men only in combat are over, in the past, deal with it and move on. As for the men, many have a lot to learn. The women in your unit is not there for your sexual pleasure. Get this out of your mind and grow up. (Hint, Rape is a definate no no. Just like in the real world.) Women are equals and are fully capable of saving your butt when the time arises. They may have to do things differently, but do not make the mistake of thinking they are less capable. They are not.