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Old 05-09-2008, 05:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
VarSity
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US could start new Cold War

"Mikhail Gorbachev has accused the United States of mounting an imperialist conspiracy against Russia that could push the world into a new Cold War.
...
Delivering one of his most scathing attacks on the US, Mr Gorbachev told The Daily Telegraph that a US military build-up was under way to contain a resurgent Russia.

From Nato's expansion plans in the former Soviet Union to Washington's proposals for a bigger defence budget and a missile shield in central Europe, the US was deliberately quashing hopes for permanent peace with Russia, Mr Gorbachev said.
...
"We had 10 years after the Cold War to build a new world order and yet we squandered them," he said.

"The United States cannot tolerate anyone acting independently.

"Every US president has to have a war."
...
"Russia does not have enemies and Putin is not going to start a war against the United States or any other country for that matter.

"Yet we see the United States approving a military budget and the defence secretary pledging to strengthen conventional forces because of the possibility of a war with China or Russia.

"I sometimes have a feeling that the United States is going to wage war against the entire world."
...
"The Americans promised that Nato wouldn't move beyond the boundaries of Germany after the Cold War but now half of central and eastern Europe are members, so what happened to their promises? It shows they cannot be trusted."

Gorbachev: US could start new Cold War - Telegraph
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Old 05-09-2008, 08:40 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't see any evidence of a US military buildup. In fact, I think there is a distinct possibility that the US military will be reduced in size by the next administration. How much will depend on whether its Obama or Mccain.

Last edited by Johnny W : 05-09-2008 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 05-09-2008, 09:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Russia arms Iran a known place for extremeists and hostility towards our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and we want war?

By the way Vlamir is the new Tzar as of a few days ago. Now thats Russian democracy at work.

Gorby is just spouting off because Ronnie is no longer around to ***** slap em.
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:51 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Russia arms Iran a known place for extremeists and hostility towards our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and we want war?
And you guys arm Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and half a dozen other countries in the Middle East. The increasing military budget of the US even in terms of percentage of GDP does not inspire confidence either.
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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And you guys arm Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and half a dozen other countries in the Middle East. The increasing military budget of the US even in terms of percentage of GDP does not inspire confidence either.
I wont bother to argue with you. Just take a good look at what happened to Syria who "wasnt building a reactor for weapons programs" and now look at that big hole in the ground where it once was. Iran is fooling nobody and very soon my bet says they will be "enlightened"
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Old 05-09-2008, 20:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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gamercube Reply

"And you guys arm Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and half a dozen other countries in the Middle East."

with nothing but the finest. We also arm the Afghans and, who knows, maybe India with a select item or two. That money's gonna be spent somewhere. They like our stuff. Not too many out there who aren't buying something from us.

Why stop with the middle east? Please go on.

Gorby sings a nice tune but the reality is V. Putin sitting in the Prime Minister's chair. Well, true to his word, he isn't President for life.

Nobody is looking to contain Russia, Victory Day parades again or not. Nobody is seeking war whether Russia wishes Abakazian or Serb proxies to foment turmoil or not. Or threaten Poland and Czechoslovakia if a European missile defense system is emplaced. Or cut off gas supplies to the Ukraine in the winter.

We'll see how things go but America would be foolish to think that a democratic facade to an increasingly fascist oligarchy isn't the emerging picture. These are wolves in sheep's clothing and it remains to be seen just how independant President Medvedev will be from Putin, if at all. More likely, Putin's intent is to render the Presidency as irrelevant in a pseudo-parliamentary system that will allow his unlimited stewardship at the helm of the dominating party which likely shall never lose control, of course.

I'm sure that Tony Blair was quite an inspiration. We'll see if there's a Gordon Brown about to unseat Putin from within but don't hold your breath.
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Old 05-09-2008, 21:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by S-2 View Post
"And you guys arm Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and half a dozen other countries in the Middle East."

with nothing but the finest. We also arm...,who knows, maybe India with a select item or two. That money's gonna be spent somewhere. They like our stuff. Not too many out there who aren't buying something from us.
You mean like maybe a 16,000 ton amphibious warfare ship?
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Old 05-11-2008, 12:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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really good article, i'm surprised to see such a point of view in Telegraph
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Old 05-11-2008, 16:04 PM   #9 (permalink)
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"Russia does not have enemies and Putin is not going to start a war against the United States or any other country for that matter.
well if you ignore that minor dispute with Chechnya that would be correct.
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Old 05-11-2008, 16:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
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well if you ignore that minor dispute with Chechnya that would be correct.
There isn't a dispute with Chechnya, there is a dispute with a small set of rebels in Chechnya

And, by the way, if you qoute that you qoute - Chechnya isn't a country, it's a part of Russia

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Old 05-11-2008, 16:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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There isn't a dispute with Chechnya, there is a dispute with a small set of rebels in Chechnya
who happen to be in charge of that country

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And, by the way, if you qoute that you qoute - Chechnya isn't a country, it's a part of Russia
And Taiwan is part of China, Kosovo part of Serbia and so on, right? And every country has a right to put such rebels in their place, even if that means resorting to violent means, right?
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Old 05-11-2008, 17:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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who happen to be in charge of that country



And Taiwan is part of China, Kosovo part of Serbia and so on, right? And every country has a right to put such rebels in their place, even if that means resorting to violent means, right?
aktarian, Chechnya and these countries you sited to have nothing the same.
The power in Chechnya in 90s was captured by a set (less than 10.000 iirc, i.e. less than 1% of all population of Chechnya) of armed rebels, and they didn't ask peaceful people, how they want to live, independently, or as a part of Russia. Then Russian forces overthrow rebels, they held a referendum, where overwhelming majority of Chechens said that they want to live as a part of Russia.

Last edited by Aryol : 05-11-2008 at 17:08 PM.
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Old 05-11-2008, 17:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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aktarian, Chechnya and these countries you sited to have nothing the same.
Nothing except breaking away from a country which doesn't recognise that move (OK, Kosovo and Chechnya are predominatly muslim but I guess that's not what you are asking for)

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The power in Chechnya in 90s was captured by a set (less than 10.000 iirc, i.e. less than 1% of all population of Chechnya) of armed rebels, and they didn't ask peaceful people, how they want to live, independently, or as a part of Russia.
Except that he won a referendum about his position after advocating independance.

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Then Russian forces overthrow rebels, they held a referendum, where overwhelming majority of Chechens said that they want to live as a part of Russia.
They did no such thing. Russian invaded, got roughly handled, left, then came back and incorporated Chechnya back into Russia.
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Old 05-11-2008, 17:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You mean like maybe a 16,000 ton amphibious warfare ship?
Correct, but in the Context of
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Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
Russia arms Iran a known place for extremeists and hostility towards our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and we want war
Russia cannot be blamed either for providing Arms and Support to Iran as Pakistan is also known to be a place for extremeists

Pakistan has already received close to $26Billion as aid primarily to fight terrorism and the whole world now knows what happenned to all that

Here is the Link

Why just to blame Russia for providing Arms and Support to Iran when the US ironically is also doing just the same
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Old 05-11-2008, 18:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
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And please dont bring India into all this and for that matter Iran also.

Neither am I a somekind of Anti-US jerk nor am I a great fan of Russia. But if you look at things in perspective, then if would notice Iran like India is BUYING things from other countries[Russia and US, in this case] and not like Pakistan that gets gifts from US.

Isnt it true that India paid top-dollars for that 16,000 tonnes LPAD USS-Trenton[as per my opinion, India shouldn't have bought it as its entire service life is already over] whereas Pakistan was GIFTED a MK 15 Phalanx Close-In Weapons System (CIWS) by US.

As a comparison note, Pakistan is more guilty than Iran of fomenting terrorism worldwide and Yet gets Gift.

If you call Russia guilty of providing Arms to Iran then US fortunately or Unfortunately is even a bigger sinner
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