Russia disappoints the world - Page 4

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-13-2008, 02:12 AM

You seem to hold Putin is some high god like esteem, well thats your choice, you speak of everyones bias, yet you will not hear a word or fact said against him, somewhat biased also dont you think?
You say Brezhnev was a communist As if Putin is not? so what is/was he if not a communist? how could he have reached the rank of half Colonel in the KGB without being a party member? as I said in my first post, a leopard does not change his spots and I stand by that particularly in regards to Putin.

Feanor · 02-13-2008, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adux

Feanor,

Regarding Putin, Look at the last 8 years. The man has done as good a job or better; as anyone can with all that he was facing, and the situation your country was in.
He can leave the Presidency at the end of his term with his head held high. I see a plan in Putin's Russian Revival, I expect Mendev to ease a bit more of rules and regulations slowly,

Adu

I'm sure thousands of beaten and arrested protesters would agree. There is definetly a plan, though how much reviving, and how much dictatorial necrophilia it actually involves is debatable.

T_igger Brezhnev was not a communist, nor was he the leader of a communist state. He was the leader of a authoritarian, bureaucratic, oligarchy. Granted limited social mobility did exist (even within the power structure) but none the less by that count we can say neither one is communist.

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-13-2008, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Douglas

Those disgruntled with Russia stating Russia dissapoints thre World should look at their own countries first perhaps. The US and UK disaster in Iraq dissapoints many countries. The massive unemployment and lack of law and order are other large western problems too. Russia may not be an angel, but dont knock a country until your own house is in order.

Dont see anyone knocking it Brian just discussing the way it is working, and how history is repeating in some ways if you believe what you say, then we will have to segregate WAB so only people from the same country can discuss matters in any thread.

Bella · 02-13-2008, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Douglas

Those disgruntled with Russia stating Russia dissapoints thre World should look at their own countries first perhaps. The US and UK disaster in Iraq dissapoints many countries. The massive unemployment and lack of law and order are other large western problems too. Russia may not be an angel, but dont knock a country until your own house is in order.

No countries law and order will ever be perfect!!!!! The fact that the Russian government is dictated on lawlessness, is fact!! It always has been!!!
I see a lot of similarities in the U.S. and Russia today.....!! Both countries are governed by oil hungry leaders," PUTIN, AND BUSH!!"
Both make millions of dollars thru oil!!!!
To tell you the truth...........I'm sick of both of them!!!!!
Brian, I agree with you...!
The day the U.S. finally finds a leader to alternative means of oil, I will vote for them......
Unfortunately, that wont be for awhile!..........

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-13-2008, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor

T_igger Brezhnev was not a communist,

So are you telling me he was not a party member?

Feanor · 02-13-2008, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

So are you telling me he was not a party member?

I hope we can agree that many people who were members of the communist party weren't actually communists (just trying to get ahead via political affiliation) and many of those who weren't in the party were none the less communists in their beliefs. If you don't think this was the case, let me assure you that it was.

Adux · 02-13-2008, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

You seem to hold Putin is some high god like esteem, well thats your choice, you speak of everyones bias, yet you will not hear a word or fact said against him, somewhat biased also dont you think?

I respect the man, Not many Presidents can claim of what he has achieved. You are being unfair in not giving him credit over there. I have already agreed to some of your claims on his undemocratic means, I have given you some explanations why he was forced to do that, yet that doesnt make it right. I have already you given you that

Quote:

You say Brezhnev was a communist As if Putin is not? so what is/was he if not a communist? how could he have reached the rank of half Colonel in the KGB without being a party member? as I said in my first post, a leopard does not change his spots and I stand by that particularly in regards to Putin.

Sir,

1990's have shown the Russians, that the Commie ideology is better fit to be flushed down the toilet. Nothing that suggest he will go back to Commie Political system or Economic system. Gazprom nationalisation has got more to do with Oligarchs and money needed for the Russian establishment, none of the countries who lecture Russia has not gone through what it went through in the 1990's.

There was a time when the International media started claiming that Putin will not step down, that hasnt happened. I take a 5 sack full of salts whenever I hear western media speak about Putin.

I can see that you are a Brit, I am sure you trust the BBC, watch "The Russian Godfathers". Its anti-Putin, but you will get the picture, since you are aware of Russian Politics, unlike a normal viewer.

Adux · 02-13-2008, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor

I hope we can agree that many people who were members of the communist party weren't actually communists (just trying to get ahead via political affiliation) and many of those who weren't in the party were none the less communists in their beliefs. If you don't think this was the case, let me assure you that it was.

I could agree with that.

lwarmonger · 02-13-2008, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Douglas

Those disgruntled with Russia stating Russia dissapoints thre World should look at their own countries first perhaps. The US and UK disaster in Iraq dissapoints many countries. The massive unemployment and lack of law and order are other large western problems too. Russia may not be an angel, but dont knock a country until your own house is in order.

Wow... massive unemployment? Lack of law and order? What nations are you talking about?

gunnut · 02-13-2008, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Douglas

Those disgruntled with Russia stating Russia dissapoints thre World should look at their own countries first perhaps. The US and UK disaster in Iraq dissapoints many countries. The massive unemployment and lack of law and order are other large western problems too. Russia may not be an angel, but dont knock a country until your own house is in order.

I didn't know France is occupying Iraq.

Adux · 02-13-2008, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

I didn't know France is occupying Iraq.

brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

German idea of good humour "Invade Fwance' - Tarek Morgan

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-13-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor

I hope we can agree that many people who were members of the communist party weren't actually communists (just trying to get ahead via political affiliation) and many of those who weren't in the party were none the less communists in their beliefs. If you don't think this was the case, let me assure you that it was.

Semantics to suit a debate, I feel.

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-13-2008, 11:15 AM

Adux[/i]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adux

I respect the man, Not many Presidents can claim of what he has achieved. You are being unfair in not giving him credit over there. I have already agreed to some of your claims on his undemocratic means, I have given you some explanations why he was forced to do that, yet that doesnt make it right. I have already you given you that

Believe it or not I was a supporter of Putin, until about 18 months ago and I decided to start reading both sides, and also listening to other peoples opinion, you agree on the main facts that he was undemocratic to achieve his ends, yet believe this will change now he has the power. I find this a difficult point to debate with you as you seem blind to the real mans faults.

Sir,

1990's have shown the Russians, that the Commie ideology is better fit to be flushed down the toilet. Nothing that suggest he will go back to Commie Political system or Economic system. Gazprom nationalisation has got more to do with Oligarchs and money needed for the Russian establishment, none of the countries who lecture Russia has not gone through what it went through in the 1990's

So you sanction, old and tried (Russian) methods used by Putin to gain his political ends ?

There was a time when the International media started claiming that Putin will not step down, that hasnt happened. I take a 5 sack full of salts whenever I hear western media speak about Putin.

You need to not only read more but digest it, If you believe Putin is standing down, then I feel sorry for you, he will solidify his power carrying another title.

I can see that you are a Brit, I am sure you trust the BBC, watch "The Russian Godfathers". Its anti-Putin, but you will get the picture, since you are aware of Russian Politics, unlike a normal viewer.

Are you feeling threatened because I am a "Brit"? I suspect I know "what " you are but politness refrains me from saying, I just debate the facts with you.

Adux · 02-13-2008, 14:18 PM

Originally Posted by Adux

Quote:

Believe it or not I was a supporter of Putin, until about 18 months ago and I decided to start reading both sides, and also listening to other peoples opinion, you agree on the main facts that he was undemocratic to achieve his ends, yet believe this will change now he has the power. I find this a difficult point to debate with you as you seem blind to the real mans faults.

I have agreed with whatever you have stated, but I see it in a different context. I dont agree with the whole western media representation of Putin. I am sure you are also aware of his other side. Any person who can get his country out of rubbles like he did, will get my respect.

And he was undemocratic to Oligarch stooges, even then I dont agree with some of his tactics. As you said tried and tested Russian way.

Quote:

So you sanction, old and tried (Russian) methods used by Putin to gain his political ends ?

Nopes, I dont. I have already agreed with you on that. I believe Litvenko was 'murdered by Putin's men. No different than any Israeli assassination squads.

Quote:

You need to not only read more but digest it, If you believe Putin is standing down, then I feel sorry for you, he will solidify his power carrying another title.

Earlier it was he will ammend the consitution, now since that is not happening. It is he will be the puppet master.

Quote:

Are you feeling threatened because I am a "Brit"? I suspect I know "what " you are but politness refrains me from saying, I just debate the facts with you.

Where did you get that from?

I have been quite respectful on my debate with you, i dont think i deserve that,even by accident.

I have seen all very biased reporting from western sources. You seem not ready to accept Indian sources. This documentary in BBC is quite good, It was again my suggestion. You can see how Boris Berzvosky works.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-13-2008, 14:35 PM

[b][i]Adux

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adux

Originally Posted by Adux

I have agreed with whatever you have stated, but I see it in a different context. I dont agree with the whole western media representation of Putin. I am sure you are also aware of his other side. Any person who can get his country out of rubbles like he did, will get my respect.

At whatever cost huh, as long as you are not there to be effected by it.

And he was undemocratic to Oligarch stooges, even then I dont agree with some of his tactics. As you said tried and tested Russian way.

The ends justify the means huh?

Nopes, I dont. I have already agreed with you on that. I believe Litvenko was 'murdered by Putin's men. No different than any Israeli assassination squads.

Always an excuse ready at hand

Earlier it was he will ammend the consitution, now since that is not happening. It is he will be the puppet master.

LOL ok and him being the "puppet master" is good how ?

Where did you get that from?

I have been quite respectful on my debate with you, i dont think i deserve that,even by accident.

Read your own comment, sorry if you are sensitive.

I have seen all very biased reporting from western sources. You seem not ready to accept Indian sources. This documentary in BBC is quite good, It was again my suggestion. You can see how Boris Berzvosky works.

Indian newspapers not biased huh?
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02-13-2008, 02:12 AM	#46 (permalink)
T_igger_cs_30 *Military Professional* Join Date: 01-04-07 Location: Canada Posts: 1,943 Country:	Adux You seem to hold Putin is some high god like esteem, well thats your choice, you speak of everyones bias, yet you will not hear a word or fact said against him, somewhat biased also dont you think? You say Brezhnev was a communist As if Putin is not? so what is/was he if not a communist? how could he have reached the rank of half Colonel in the KGB without being a party member? as I said in my first post, a leopard does not change his spots and I stand by that particularly in regards to Putin. __________________ $<img src=http://C:\Documents and Settings\Wayne Smith\My Documents\002...My Pictures border=0 alt= />$ FEAR NAUGHT I don't work here ...I am an analyst!

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