Poland demands US air defence system

**Ironduke** · 11-22-2007, 02:26 AM

The Polish sure have been pushy lately, whether its with the EU, US, or Russia. Poland has temporarily turned itself into a bit of a pariah within the European Union.

Quote:

Poland demands US air defence system

US plans to base part of a missile defence system in Poland must be matched with a commitment to deploy weapons to protect Polish air space, the new dWarsaw government said on Monday in an early indication that it intends to stand by election promises to adopt a more assertive stance towards Washington.

Bogdan Klich, defence minister, said Warsaw would have to undertake a “new *attempt at balancing the benefits and costs” of allowing the US to build a base on Polish territory to hold 10 anti-missile interceptors.

His comments in a newspaper interview reflect the changed tone set by the new government of Donald Tusk, prime minister, and his liberal Civic Platform party, which took power on Friday. Mr Tusk has pledged to refocus Polish foreign policy in a more pro-European direction after the strongly pro-US tilt under his precedessor, Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

Mr Klich said his government would fulfil another campaign promise and withdraw by next year 900 Polish troops stationed in Iraq, perhaps leaving only a training mission under Nato.

Warsaw is worried that by allowing the US missile defence system on to its territory Poland would become a target, so the government wants anti-missile systems, such as Patriot or THAAD, a high-altitude system, to protect Polish air space.

“Thanks to them we would be able to better protect not only elements of the shield but also the territory of our country,” said Mr Klich.

But with its call for *Washington to provide Poland with short-range *systems, Warsaw risks *infuriating Russia, which is already deeply suspicious of the whole missile defence shield project.

As well as the Polish base the proposed shield would in*clude a radar base in the Czech Republic, an it would aim to intercept missiles from states such as Iran.

US officials, who insist the shield does not endanger Moscow’s thousands of missiles, have been wary of similar past requests from Poland, fearing Russia’s reaction.

Mr Klich said Moscow’s problem was not the base itself but “the institutionalised presence of the US in central Europe”, which would mark the final end of Russia’s attempts to exert influence in a region it had historically controlled.

The shield is controversial in both Poland and the Czech Republic, but the Pentagon expresses optimism about its negotiations with Prague. Officials have been more cautious about the prospects for talks with Poland, given the change in government. Congress recently cut funds to build a missile defence site in Poland, saying the Pentagon had to first reach *agreement with Warsaw.

In Moscow last month, Robert Gates, US defence secretary, and Condoleezza Rice, secretary of state, told President Vladimir Putin that the US would be willing to delay activating the missile defence system until Russia and the US agreed Iranian missiles posed a threat to Europe and the US.

Officials have not ruled out the possibility that the missile interceptors could be kept in the US until the system is switched on.

FT.com / In depth - Poland demands US air defence system

**ZFBoxcar** · 11-22-2007, 02:45 AM

Quote:

US plans to base part of a missile defence system in Poland must be matched with a commitment to deploy weapons to protect Polish air space

Doesn't it seem reasonable that if the base is going to be in Poland it should provide Poland with some protection?

VarSity · 11-22-2007, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZFBoxcar

Doesn't it seem reasonable that if the base is going to be in Poland it should provide Poland with some protection?

I agree, though surely Poland should have made that an emelent of the whole package? "you can base your system here, but we want some AA" seems fair to me.

Feanor · 11-22-2007, 13:20 PM

Russia will be even less likely to agree to that. Which means more diplomatic difficulties. How would America feel if Russian air defence systems operated by Russia were deployed to Cuba?

VarSity · 11-22-2007, 13:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor

Russia will be even less likely to agree to that. Which means more diplomatic difficulties. How would America feel if Russian air defence systems operated by Russia were deployed to Cuba?

Russia has sold air defence to anyone and everyone with the money. Why is it any different, or indeed worse for the USA to do the same.

Blademaster · 11-22-2007, 14:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VarSity

Russia has sold air defence to anyone and everyone with the money. Why is it any different, or indeed worse for the USA to do the same.

IF that's the case, then why USA protest every single time that Russia makes a sale. FYI, USA is the largest weapons exporter in the world, 3 times the export of Russian weaponry.

Feanor · 11-22-2007, 14:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blademaster

IF that's the case, then why USA protest every single time that Russia makes a sale. FYI, USA is the largest weapons exporter in the world, 3 times the export of Russian weaponry.

What? No. Nowhere near 3 times. A marginal lead at best in annual sales. America was just under 8 billion in '06, where as Russia scored 6.6 billion. And Russian profits are growing and have been every year.

EDIT: Who will operate the Polish air defense system that they want. The U.S.?

gunnut · 11-23-2007, 07:02 AM

1. Who operates this system?
2. Who pays for this system?
3. How about Poland buying some Russian systems to protect its air space?

rickusn · 11-23-2007, 10:22 AM

The German connection - Haaretz - Israel News

"The German Connection"

Ah yes it slowly comes into the light:

The Russian, German & Iranian Triangle

Its why the French government at least has become pro-US. Its why the UK government stays close to the US.

Its why: "The Polish sure have been pushy lately.."

Poland fears Russia, Germany and even Iran but are not convinced(for good reason) that the US will or can protect them.

And dont forget the Czechs.

Its why many nations continue to appease Russia even the US.:

Scoop: NZ to help dismantle Russian nuclear submarines

"NZ to help dismantle Russian nuclear submarines"

As trust in the ability or even committment of the US to protect nations with extremely limited self-defense means much less retaliation capability.

Fear in the free world steadilly grows.

Even as the US becomes increasingly impotent diplomatically, economically and militarilly.

Many profess glee over this turn of events but it only presages a new "Dark Age" for the world.

As the American "experiment"'s light slowly dims and will quickly be extinquished altogether.

Those who hate the US including many of its own citizens will get their wish.

But I caution.:

"Be careful what you wish for."

Another example.:

Saudi Arabia: $4 billion for Russian weapons :: Russia-InfoCentre

"Saudi Arabia: $4 billion for Russian weapons"

"Some experts regard this deal as an attempt to strengthen relations between Saudi Arabia and the Russian Federation."

Feanor · 11-23-2007, 15:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickusn

Saudi Arabia: $4 billion for Russian weapons :: Russia-InfoCentre

"Saudi Arabia: $4 billion for Russian weapons"

"Some experts regard this deal as an attempt to strengthen relations between Saudi Arabia and the Russian Federation."

In the light of the French losing the helicopter deal, I would be (if I was a westerner) seriously getting worried about the international weapons market trends.

Blademaster · 11-23-2007, 15:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor

What? No. Nowhere near 3 times. A marginal lead at best in annual sales. America was just under 8 billion in '06, where as Russia scored 6.6 billion. And Russian profits are growing and have been every year.

EDIT: Who will operate the Polish air defense system that they want. The U.S.?

Go to this site:
US is top purveyor on weapons sales list - The Boston Globe

U.S. leads arms sales to developing countries - International Herald Tribune

I rest my case.

Adux · 11-23-2007, 15:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor

In the light of the French losing the helicopter deal, I would be (if I was a westerner) seriously getting worried about the international weapons market trends.

Its no longer Cold War, Options are plenty and Technology easily available.
Read about the French Arms Selling policy. They tried to push the Saudi's and even the Moroccan's, Moroccans pushed them back and bought American F-16's. And same here Saudi's are all set for Mi-17's, a good piece of system.

Feanor · 11-23-2007, 15:44 PM

Where's the triple lead? The picture is from your article. Also it talks about developing countries. What about weapon sales to countries that aren't developing?

Blademaster · 11-23-2007, 15:46 PM

Yes look at Boston Globe. It says that USA has supplied over 45% of weapons compared to 15% by Russia. That's three times.

Feanor · 11-23-2007, 15:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blademaster

Yes look at Boston Globe. It says that USA has supplied over 45% of weapons compared to 15% by Russia. That's three times.

So you cited two sources in direct disagreement with each other? Here's a few other sources that also don't agree.

Russia - Russia Global Weapons Export Leader In 2001-2005 - SIPRI Experts - JRL 11-12-07

Global Military Spending, Weapons Exports, Depleted Uranium, Nuclear Weapons - Earth Web Site

11-23-2007, 07:02 AM	#8 (permalink)
gunnut *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 01-27-06 Location: DPRK, Democratik People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 9,365 Country:	1. Who operates this system? 2. Who pays for this system? 3. How about Poland buying some Russian systems to protect its air space? __________________ "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

11-23-2007, 10:22 AM	#9 (permalink)
rickusn *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-09-03 Posts: 1,317	The German connection - Haaretz - Israel News "The German Connection" Ah yes it slowly comes into the light: The Russian, German & Iranian Triangle Its why the French government at least has become pro-US. Its why the UK government stays close to the US. Its why: "The Polish sure have been pushy lately.." Poland fears Russia, Germany and even Iran but are not convinced(for good reason) that the US will or can protect them. And dont forget the Czechs. Its why many nations continue to appease Russia even the US.: Scoop: NZ to help dismantle Russian nuclear submarines "NZ to help dismantle Russian nuclear submarines" As trust in the ability or even committment of the US to protect nations with extremely limited self-defense means much less retaliation capability. Fear in the free world steadilly grows. Even as the US becomes increasingly impotent diplomatically, economically and militarilly. Many profess glee over this turn of events but it only presages a new "Dark Age" for the world. As the American "experiment"'s light slowly dims and will quickly be extinquished altogether. Those who hate the US including many of its own citizens will get their wish. But I caution.: "Be careful what you wish for." Another example.: Saudi Arabia: $4 billion for Russian weapons :: Russia-InfoCentre "Saudi Arabia: $4 billion for Russian weapons" "Some experts regard this deal as an attempt to strengthen relations between Saudi Arabia and the Russian Federation." Last edited by rickusn : 11-23-2007 at 10:27 AM.

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11-22-2007, 13:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
Feanor Banished Join Date: 06-12-07 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,385 Country:	Russia will be even less likely to agree to that. Which means more diplomatic difficulties. How would America feel if Russian air defence systems operated by Russia were deployed to Cuba?

11-23-2007, 15:44 PM	#13 (permalink)
Feanor Banished Join Date: 06-12-07 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,385 Country:	Where's the triple lead? The picture is from your article. Also it talks about developing countries. What about weapon sales to countries that aren't developing?

11-23-2007, 15:46 PM	#14 (permalink)
Blademaster Military Enthusiast *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-15-03 Posts: 3,050	Yes look at Boston Globe. It says that USA has supplied over 45% of weapons compared to 15% by Russia. That's three times.

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