Russia on the march - again

Ray · 04-13-2007, 14:42 PM

Quote:

Russia on the march - again

By Con Coughlin
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 13/04/2007

Inside Abroad

The new Cold War won't be like the last one, with massed tank divisions stretched across the German plain ready to repulse a Communist invasion of Western Europe. No, the looming power struggle between resurgent Russian nationalism and Western liberty will be determined by raw economic muscle and political clout or, in Russia's case, blackmail and intimidation.

You have only to look at the implosion of Ukraine's fledgling democratic institutions to see the effectiveness of the new tactics the Russian bear is using to claw back its influence over its former empire.

Moscow has not forgiven Ukraine for its Orange Revolution in late 2004, which saw Kiev sweep away decades of Soviet repression and assert its desire to become a functioning, Western-style democracy. On that occasion, the Kremlin resorted to the decidedly unsubtle tactic of poisoning Viktor Yushchenko, the principal pro-democracy campaigner, who, thanks to the prompt intervention of a team of Viennese toxicologists, survived the assassination attempt and went on to win the election.

Since then, Moscow has adopted a different approach, seeking to use its new economic strength to intimidate its former ally. Early last year, it switched off the oil and gas supplies, in effect leaving the country without heat or light in the depths of a Ukrainian winter.

More recently, the Russians reached for their cheque books and bought off enough parliamentarians (the going rate for a Ukrainian MP is said to be £2.5 million) to render the democratic process unworkable, to the extent that President Yushchenko, as he now is, was compelled this week to prorogue parliament and call new elections.

The reason the Russians have gone to such lengths to eradicate the seeds of Ukrainian democracy is their fear that, left to its own devices, Kiev would follow the same path as other former Soviet republics and seek to guarantee its hard-won freedom by joining the EU and Nato.

This is anathema to Moscow, where the heady days of glasnost and perestroika, and the prospect of Russia becoming a democracy, are but a distant memory. These days, Vladimir Putin, the autocratic Russian President, makes no secret of his contempt for the EU and Nato, which he insists took unfair advantage of Russia's economic weakness in the 1990s to advance into areas in eastern Europe that the Kremlin regards as its natural sphere of influence.

Putin wants to restore Russia to the superpower status it enjoyed under the Soviet Union, whose demise he describes as "the geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century".

It is often said that the primary cause of the collapse of the USSR in the 1980s was the fall in oil prices to $10 a barrel. Now, with crude prices averaging $60, Moscow is awash with petrodollars, not least because of the brutal manner in which Putin has renationalised the nation's lucrative energy resources, with opponents driven into exile or, in the case of Mikhail Khordokovsky, the former head of the Yukos oil conglomerate, handed lengthy jail sentences in Siberia.

And Putin has not been slow to use these riches to fund a range of subversive activities aimed at destabilising and reclaiming the former satellite states. Apart from usurping Ukrainian democracy, the Kremlin has placed an economic stranglehold on Georgia and Moldova, arguably two of the weakest former Soviet republics.

Similar pressures have been applied to the Baltic states, which, despite joining both the EU and Nato, have found themselves subjected to economic and political intimidation by their former occupiers.

It is against this unpromising background that Putin has found the confidence to confront the West, citing the Bush Administration's plans to establish missile defence bases in Poland and the Czech Republic as his justification. The intended purpose of America's national missile defence project is to protect both America and most of Europe from nuclear missile attacks from rogue states such as Iran and North Korea.

The Pentagon insists the new system will be configured to intercept ballistic missiles fired from the Middle East and Far East, and that they would be useless against the much more sophisticated Russian missile technology. It has even been suggested that the system could be used to protect Russia, a notion dismissed out of hand by the Kremlin.

Not for Putin the detente of the Reagan-Thatcher era that ended three decades of nuclear stand-off. On the contrary, the Russian President seems intent on using the proposed American missile deployment to fund a new East-West arms race. Russia's all-powerful security council - which reports directly to Putin - announced earlier this month that it needed a new military "configuration" to counter the threat posed by Nato's expansion and Washington's missiles, and Russia's military budget has been dramatically increased.

Nor is there any realistic prospect of Putin being dissuaded from initiating a second Cold War against the West. The Kremlin's suppression of political opposition has been so successful that the most vociferous opponents today are the likes of Garry Kasparov, the former chess grand master, whose bravery in denouncing Putin's autocratic tendencies is not matched by any groundswell of public support.

Kasparov and his supporters have been successful in organising a number of street protests - more are planned for this weekend - but, in Putin's Russia, such open defiance is more likely to see Kasparov languishing in Siberia than taking over the Kremlin.

Russia on the march - again | Dt Opinion | Opinion | Telegraph

Scary, what?

Or is it Russia's answer to the disintegration of the Communist behemoth they were and getting back at those who are responsible for their demise?

Or is it a 'sour grapes' western propaganda?

MrFirst · 04-13-2007, 16:49 PM

What scary, Ray? It seems Con Coughlin has already seen Kasparov "languishing in Siberia". Lesopoval! Gulag!
The articles of such sort may cause only smile.

zraver · 04-13-2007, 23:03 PM

this is nothing new and many have been zeroing in on Russia's actions to re-establish its empire.

Firral · 04-13-2007, 23:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zraver

this is nothing new and many have been zeroing in on Russia's actions to re-establish its empire.

If the USA protect the interests - everyone are silent.
If the Great Britain protect the interests - everyone are silent.
If France protect the interests - everyone are silent.
If Israel is protected with the interests - everyone are silent.
But if Russia protect the interests - everyone shout about " Imperial ambitions ", politicians " blackmail and intimidation ", etc.
It is ridiculous, guys you that do not see so obvious double standards?

About the article-new paranoid delirium.

Ray · 04-14-2007, 00:12 AM

Firral,

Point taken.

But that is the reality of perceptions!

That is how the battle to win the mind of the world plays out!

I am sure in Russia, you must be saying the same about non Russian powers!

But since the international language has shifted from French to English, the world reads and understands English. Hence, the world is influenced by the English (western) media.

The day Russian is understood by a majority, maybe the Russian view will prevail.

I would not call it double standards, it is mere the question of winning the world to one's way of thinking!

Propaganda and disinformation, if you wish, is a reality in translating one's foreign policy into reality!

zraver · 04-14-2007, 01:10 AM

Firral, the differnac eis of course in the way the game is played. America uses its means to influence outcome sin forgien countries, but it does not poision the Prime Minister of Canada or shut off spigot to mexico.

Russia claims spheres of influence, implying an imperial outlook. Other wise who is to say Russia should not be in Kiev's Sphere of influence? The outlook is the only thing that is different between kiev and Moscow. Kiev wants to be free to chart its own course as it sees it. Moscow doe snot recognise the Ukraines indipendance and will use any means it feels it has to, inorder tog et Ukraine to dance to the Russian tune.

smilingassassin · 04-14-2007, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firral

If the USA protect the interests - everyone are silent.
If the Great Britain protect the interests - everyone are silent.
If France protect the interests - everyone are silent.
If Israel is protected with the interests - everyone are silent.
But if Russia protect the interests - everyone shout about " Imperial ambitions ", politicians " blackmail and intimidation ", etc.
It is ridiculous, guys you that do not see so obvious double standards?

About the article-new paranoid delirium.

Are you kidding? Everyone silent following the USA's efforts to persue its own interests? Last I saw theres no end of critisism, from your own president Putin no less!

Same goes for Israel, I can't begin to count the number of times European nations have called UN sesions to curtail Israeli attempts at self defence...

braindead · 04-14-2007, 04:10 AM

[quote=zraver;365248]Firral, the differnac eis of course in the way the game is played. America uses its means to influence outcome sin forgien countries, but it does not poision the Prime Minister of Canada or shut off spigot to mexico.

QUOTE]

Probably in Putin´s view would be more appropriate to describe as after USA falls apart , it tries to re-integrate Texas to whatever is left of USA .
Point is without Byelorussia and Ukraine Russia simply does not have the economic weight to be a major power (territory,population,resources, research etc.etc.).

Ray · 04-14-2007, 04:31 AM

zraver,

There is a problem with the US and that is that any interaction always comes with a political baggage and hence countries requiring assistance are chary and avoid as long as feasible.

The China's cosying up with Pakistan is because while US assistance has a political baggage, China gives assistance without any precondition. I don't where I posted it, but Musharraf in the China Pakistan Energy Initiative stated that should pressure be put by the US, China would salvage Pakistan!

The fact that we all read English newspapers, which heavily borrow on news from the western news agencies as also for the fact that our background is on the lines of English education system, we are more aligned to think in the western way. Hence, we are partial to news emanating from the West and are psychologically more attuned to identifying with westerh thoughts.

MrFirst · 04-14-2007, 05:45 AM

Noone has poisoned Yushchenko, simply one should drink less vodka and gorylka. As for "spigot to mexico" the US now is building the wall in the Mexican border, quite similar to a kind of spigot.
Firral is right, the article is a paranoid delirium, but I do not agree this is new, the old well-known stereotypes' list for western readers - Siberia, kgb, empire of evil, etc. Propaganda works.

braindead · 04-14-2007, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFirst

What scary, Ray? It seems Con Coughlin has already seen Kasparov "languishing in Siberia". Lesopoval! Gulag!
The articles of such sort may cause only smile.

Well Kasparov was arrested today

MrFirst · 04-14-2007, 07:53 AM

Not arrested, detained during the meeting and brought to militia office. I think he's already released.

Ray · 04-14-2007, 09:46 AM

Kasparov had given a comment earlier that he fears about his safety under Putim.

It maybe propaganda from the Russian point of view, but this is what BBC has to say:

BBC NEWS | Europe | Putin opponents step up pressure

Any comments from the Russian media?

News on Ksparov:

BBC NEWS | Europe | Kasparov arrested at Moscow rally

Garry · 04-14-2007, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

The fact that we all read English newspapers, which heavily borrow on news from the western news agencies as also for the fact that our background is on the lines of English education system, we are more aligned to think in the western way. Hence, we are partial to news emanating from the West and are psychologically more attuned to identifying with westerh thoughts.

I am joining you in this your point !!!

Both Western, Russian and Arab views are quite isolated and news agencies rarelly state FACTs but their VIEWS

When I see Russia First Channel I smell brainwashing.... in CNN and FOX it is also so EVIDENT!!! They I like reading translated news from Al Jazeera... this is brainwashing its audience in a bit different way.

I went today with my friend to see the March.... now I see that TV gives it completelly different from what I have seen on the street

p.s. Kasparov is fool

Ray · 04-14-2007, 11:59 AM

Kasparov maybe a fool, I don't know.

But nonetheless a great chess player and he kept Russia on the Chess map too!

04-14-2007, 00:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 24,972 Country:	Firral, Point taken. But that is the reality of perceptions! That is how the battle to win the mind of the world plays out! I am sure in Russia, you must be saying the same about non Russian powers! But since the international language has shifted from French to English, the world reads and understands English. Hence, the world is influenced by the English (western) media. The day Russian is understood by a majority, maybe the Russian view will prevail. I would not call it double standards, it is mere the question of winning the world to one's way of thinking! Propaganda and disinformation, if you wish, is a reality in translating one's foreign policy into reality! Last edited by Ray : 04-14-2007 at 00:17 AM.

04-14-2007, 04:10 AM	#8 (permalink)
braindead Lost in Translation *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-30-06 Location: estonia Posts: 1,131 Country:	[quote=zraver;365248]Firral, the differnac eis of course in the way the game is played. America uses its means to influence outcome sin forgien countries, but it does not poision the Prime Minister of Canada or shut off spigot to mexico. QUOTE] Probably in Putin´s view would be more appropriate to describe as after USA falls apart , it tries to re-integrate Texas to whatever is left of USA . Point is without Byelorussia and Ukraine Russia simply does not have the economic weight to be a major power (territory,population,resources, research etc.etc.). __________________ ....

04-14-2007, 04:31 AM	#9 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 24,972 Country:	zraver, There is a problem with the US and that is that any interaction always comes with a political baggage and hence countries requiring assistance are chary and avoid as long as feasible. The China's cosying up with Pakistan is because while US assistance has a political baggage, China gives assistance without any precondition. I don't where I posted it, but Musharraf in the China Pakistan Energy Initiative stated that should pressure be put by the US, China would salvage Pakistan! The fact that we all read English newspapers, which heavily borrow on news from the western news agencies as also for the fact that our background is on the lines of English education system, we are more aligned to think in the western way. Hence, we are partial to news emanating from the West and are psychologically more attuned to identifying with westerh thoughts. Last edited by Ray : 04-14-2007 at 04:34 AM.

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04-13-2007, 16:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
MrFirst Contributor Join Date: 01-02-07 Location: Russia Posts: 561	What scary, Ray? It seems Con Coughlin has already seen Kasparov "languishing in Siberia". Lesopoval! Gulag! The articles of such sort may cause only smile.

04-13-2007, 23:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
zraver Contrary by nature. *Military Professional* Join Date: 10-22-06 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,336 Country:	this is nothing new and many have been zeroing in on Russia's actions to re-establish its empire.

04-14-2007, 01:10 AM	#6 (permalink)
zraver Contrary by nature. *Military Professional* Join Date: 10-22-06 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,336 Country:	Firral, the differnac eis of course in the way the game is played. America uses its means to influence outcome sin forgien countries, but it does not poision the Prime Minister of Canada or shut off spigot to mexico. Russia claims spheres of influence, implying an imperial outlook. Other wise who is to say Russia should not be in Kiev's Sphere of influence? The outlook is the only thing that is different between kiev and Moscow. Kiev wants to be free to chart its own course as it sees it. Moscow doe snot recognise the Ukraines indipendance and will use any means it feels it has to, inorder tog et Ukraine to dance to the Russian tune.

04-14-2007, 05:45 AM	#10 (permalink)
MrFirst Contributor Join Date: 01-02-07 Location: Russia Posts: 561	Noone has poisoned Yushchenko, simply one should drink less vodka and gorylka. As for "spigot to mexico" the US now is building the wall in the Mexican border, quite similar to a kind of spigot. Firral is right, the article is a paranoid delirium, but I do not agree this is new, the old well-known stereotypes' list for western readers - Siberia, kgb, empire of evil, etc. Propaganda works.

04-14-2007, 07:53 AM	#12 (permalink)
MrFirst Contributor Join Date: 01-02-07 Location: Russia Posts: 561	Not arrested, detained during the meeting and brought to militia office. I think he's already released.

04-14-2007, 09:46 AM	#13 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 24,972 Country:	Kasparov had given a comment earlier that he fears about his safety under Putim. It maybe propaganda from the Russian point of view, but this is what BBC has to say: BBC NEWS \| Europe \| Putin opponents step up pressure Any comments from the Russian media? News on Ksparov: BBC NEWS \| Europe \| Kasparov arrested at Moscow rally

04-14-2007, 11:59 AM	#15 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 24,972 Country:	Kasparov maybe a fool, I don't know. But nonetheless a great chess player and he kept Russia on the Chess map too!

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