Russia on the march - again - Page 7

braindead · 04-30-2007, 14:55 PM

Little update : B.Soldier is up on military cemetary , the wall behind it will be up in June . Russias parliamentary delegation came to visit and according to one of our parliament members , it was exactly like it were 1939 and Zhdanov was back bringing messages from Stalin. Even before leaving Moscow , their first statement was that PM would have to resign . ( Blogid | Russia Shoots Itself in the Foot ... Again - Eesti PÃ¤evaleht Online )
´´Gazprom´´ Shröeder wanted to visit to discuss the gas pipeline , but was given notice that nor our PM and not one of our ministers will have time from him in near future .
The internet attacks of our police, foreign ministry etc. have come from State IP-adresses from Moscow .

.
And lastly - what to do with the vacant place where the B.Soldier stood ? Best offer so far - put up a statue of Boris Yeltsin !

Following are winners of this years most expensive ad campaign

FOTOD: irvhambad panid vandaalid Hugo Bossi reklaamima - Eesti PÃ¤evaleht Online

MrFirst · 04-30-2007, 16:37 PM

What's that - "State IP-adresses from Moscow"?
I'm person far from IT, and I do not understand what does that mean - "state IP-adress"? Maybe these reporters have checked these IPs through one of the sites, and have saw something like : "*****.***.*** Kremlin. Moscow"?..
And how a "state" IP is different from a non-state?..

Berkis · 04-30-2007, 16:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braindead

......
And lastly - what to do with the vacant place where the B.Soldier stood ? Best offer so far - put up a statue of Boris Yeltsin !

FOTOD: irvhambad panid vandaalid Hugo Bossi reklaamima - Eesti PÃ¤evaleht Online

Common

! Such a place in the centre of Tallinn and there are still open questions how to use it? If the bussiness projects are not ready yet, then will be ready soon. Quite frankly, I think the whole issue is more about good bussiness opportunity in the centre of the city, than anything else.

entropy · 04-30-2007, 16:55 PM

They should keep a statue of Lenin. If nood good old Uljanov, Estonia would never become independent.

Berkis · 04-30-2007, 17:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFirst

What's that - "State IP-adresses from Moscow"?
I'm person far from IT, and I do not understand what does that mean - "state IP-adress"? Maybe these reporters have checked these IPs through one of the sites, and have saw something like : "*****.***.*** Kremlin. Moscow"?..
And how a "state" IP is different from a non-state?..

Perhaps some reporters wrote that basing on the assumption that web access in Russia is fully state owned or controlled. Correct me, but I think that such a presumption is wrong.

MrFirst · 04-30-2007, 17:24 PM

As far as I understand, Yeltsin statue would be Estonia's final revenge to Russia?..

MrFirst · 04-30-2007, 17:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkis

Perhaps some reporters wrote that basing on the assumption that web access in Russia is fully state owned or controlled. Correct me, but I think that such a presumption is wrong.

Yes, that's interesting how did they define the "state" IPs.

braindead · 04-30-2007, 17:30 PM

here is the full text : Postimees: Rein Langi sõnul ründavad Vene riigiasutused Eesti veebiservereid

Translation is by me , so you will have to take my word for it :´´Rein Lang , Minister of Justice told to news program that attack to Est.Web-servers come from Moscow , state-owned IP-adresses.
´´Today is clear that these attacks come from abroad and it is not necessary to hide from which country they come. ´´says R.Lang ´´They come from State (state-owned/goverment - BD) IP-adresses from Moscow . This hints that in Russia there are forces who have completely lost their mind´´ . CERT Eesti (state info-systems development centre - ? - i guess, don´t know how to translate it ) announced today that during yesterday and today persistant attacks have been continued to halt Est. state web servers and there have been attempts to stop the work of all goverment agencies electronic communications network . Therefore there are still problems accessing goverment pages from outside estonia. Attack started late Friday , 27th of April´´

IP address - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MrFirst · 04-30-2007, 17:43 PM

That's not clarifying the issue.
Through IPs they could define internet provider. Are there state internet providers in Russia? Haven't heard.
Still is not clear what your justice minister had meant.

Berkis · 05-01-2007, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFirst

That's not clarifying the issue.
Through IPs they could define internet provider. Are there state internet providers in Russia? Haven't heard.
Still is not clear what your justice minister had meant.

Yeah, I think that internet in Russia is the only sphere of media and communications that is currently free of regulation and control. Although in March the decree was passed merging the Federal Service for Media Law Compliance and Cultural Heritage (Rosookhrankultura) and the Federal Information Technologies Agency (Rossvyaznadzor) into one. A more strict control of internet was one of the goals of that merger.

Ray · 05-01-2007, 14:34 PM

Quote:

Poles demand missile shield against Russia

· European nations increase pressure on Americans
· Czech Republic want legal guarantee over bases

Ian Traynor, Europe editor
Tuesday May 1, 2007
The Guardian

Poland and the Czech Republic are raising the ante in negotiations with the Americans, demanding missiles to deploy against Russia and security and legal guarantees in return for hosting elements of the US missile shield.

The missile defence programme is splitting Europe and igniting a new cold war-style clash with the Kremlin, and the demands from the central Europeans plunge the Pentagon project into greater uncertainty.

The negotiations, about extending the missile defence project from California and Alaska to Europe, are expected to be wound up before the end of the year. The Poles are insisting on US security guarantees and supplies of Patriot missiles to protect themselves against a perceived threat from Russia, while the Czechs are embroiled in discussions over how a US radar base south of Prague would be safeguarded and what's in it for the Czechs.

As Russia, in the words of a US official, delivers "bloodcurdling" threats in response to the Pentagon project in central Europe and unease spirals in Germany, there is also growing frustration in Warsaw and Prague with what is perceived as a high-handed approach by the US administration. "We want legal guarantees. I can't go into details but it is to do with how the base is protected and also about the base agreement," said a senior Czech official of the proposal for a radar base south-west of Prague. "Unfortunately the Americans could have done more to engage the Russians over the past year."

The Polish demands are more incendiary and are certain to confirm the Russian belief that in the long term the new US bases in central Europe are aimed at Russia. The US and Nato say such ideas are nonsense and that the 10 interceptor rockets to be stationed in Poland will be there to deter a missile attack from the Middle East, especially Iran.

The Poles are telling the Americans that they do not feel threatened by Iran, but they do feel vulnerable to Vladimir Putin's Russia and need to build up their defences. Patriots would help to protect Poland from short-range and medium-range missile attack from Russia.

If the Poles display their loyalty to the Americans by helping the US defend against attack from the Middle East, the Americans should beef up Polish defences against Russia, Warsaw argues.

The risk, say Russian and Polish experts, is that Poland could be turned into a "frontline state" against Russia. In two recent speeches, Mr Putin has delivered the strongest attacks of his seven-year presidency on the US, singling out the missile shield for criticism. US officials say they want to take the Polish security concerns into account, but are clearly wary of worsening the tension with Moscow by supplying Warsaw with missiles.

Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the German foreign minister, echoed such anxieties yesterday. "We have to avoid purchasing security for some at the cost of creating new mistrust or even insecurity," he warned in a direct reference to the Polish-Russian dispute.

The Poles and the Czechs are frustrated at being taken for granted. Unless there is more in the deal for the host countries, such as jobs, money, contracts for local companies and legal guarantees governing the bases, they are telling the Americans, it will be difficult to get the agreement of their parliaments.

Poles demand missile shield against Russia | Russia | Guardian Unlimited

The pot boils over.

First, the ABM against Iran and rogues and now the demand for missiles against Russia.

From the Russian point of view, the ABM is a cloak for anti Russian aggressive intent and from the US point of view, merely a defence against rogues, which they claim does not include Russia. And in the middle are the Poles with their teeth chattering in fear of a warm hug from the Russian bear that might come in the near future. Interestingly, all parties involved are right in their perceptions!

History has always given the wrong end of the stick to the Poles and so they are obviously chary. But this fear and the clamour for US protection is only making the Russians see red and is, in fact, making the situation worse for the Poles. They should have done it without too much of hue and cry over their fears.

Garry · 05-02-2007, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

The pot boils over.

First, the ABM against Iran and rogues and now the demand for missiles against Russia.

From the Russian point of view, the ABM is a cloak for anti Russian aggressive intent and from the US point of view, merely a defence against rogues, which they claim does not include Russia. And in the middle are the Poles with their teeth chattering in fear of a warm hug from the Russian bear that might come in the near future. Interestingly, all parties involved are right in their perceptions!

History has always given the wrong end of the stick to the Poles and so they are obviously chary. But this fear and the clamour for US protection is only making the Russians see red and is, in fact, making the situation worse for the Poles. They should have done it without too much of hue and cry over their fears.

Poles are hard ally to have.... Czech are much more reasonable. They do their radar job without so much less noise. Poles are doing everything to make it worse for both its allies and enemies..... I guess they need some kind of new more reasonable government!

Berkis · 05-02-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

The pot boils over.

First, the ABM against Iran and rogues and now the demand for missiles against Russia.

From the Russian point of view, the ABM is a cloak for anti Russian aggressive intent and from the US point of view, merely a defence against rogues, which they claim does not include Russia. And in the middle are the Poles with their teeth chattering in fear of a warm hug from the Russian bear that might come in the near future. Interestingly, all parties involved are right in their perceptions!

History has always given the wrong end of the stick to the Poles and so they are obviously chary. But this fear and the clamour for US protection is only making the Russians see red and is, in fact, making the situation worse for the Poles. They should have done it without too much of hue and cry over their fears.

I think the poles are aware of their problems, otherwise Polish ex- president Kwasniewski with his followers wouldn’t announce yesterday the creation of the movement for democracy. But I guess, it will hardly change overall polish stand on the hosting of parts of a US missile defence shield on its territory.

Of course, for Moscow it is unpleasant to see the alien military infrastructure entering the orbit, which they still in terms of russian language as lingua franca, history, culture and economic ties consider theirs. Therefore, the US suggestion to jointly locate a similar radar also in Russia, in Moscow might be more considered as scoffing than a genuine proposal for cooperation. No doubt that there is and will be a clear njet from russian side, since anti-NATO stand for the time being is a basic component of the state’s representation at home and abroad.

braindead · 05-02-2007, 12:42 PM

To understand why poles are so hard allies , one just has to take a look in their history . Poland has been traded , divided and conquered probably more than any other country in Europe . Their determination to set their own course is probably the biggest in Europe .

Alex_Ivanov · 05-02-2007, 21:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braindead

Poland has been traded , divided and conquered probably more than any other country in Europe. Their determination to set their own course is probably the biggest in Europe .

And whoose fault is that? I would like to turn it the other way round: Poland never had own course, never had strong and stable state, while their neighbours were far ahead in state- and policy-building. Result is - Poland was divided, conqured, divided again and conqured again and again, because strong eats weak and not vice versa.

P.S. Who really needs such a weak and at the same time hysteric ally? A lot of problems and nothing else.

04-30-2007, 14:55 PM	#91 (permalink)
braindead Lost in Translation *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-30-06 Location: estonia Posts: 1,260 Country:	Little update : B.Soldier is up on military cemetary , the wall behind it will be up in June . Russias parliamentary delegation came to visit and according to one of our parliament members , it was exactly like it were 1939 and Zhdanov was back bringing messages from Stalin. Even before leaving Moscow , their first statement was that PM would have to resign . ( Blogid \| Russia Shoots Itself in the Foot ... Again - Eesti PÃ¤evaleht Online ) ´´Gazprom´´ Shröeder wanted to visit to discuss the gas pipeline , but was given notice that nor our PM and not one of our ministers will have time from him in near future . The internet attacks of our police, foreign ministry etc. have come from State IP-adresses from Moscow . . And lastly - what to do with the vacant place where the B.Soldier stood ? Best offer so far - put up a statue of Boris Yeltsin ! Following are winners of this years most expensive ad campaign FOTOD: irvhambad panid vandaalid Hugo Bossi reklaamima - Eesti PÃ¤evaleht Online __________________ ....

04-30-2007, 16:55 PM	#94 (permalink)
entropy Senior Reader *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 03-19-07 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,628 Country:	They should keep a statue of Lenin. If nood good old Uljanov, Estonia would never become independent. __________________ If memory serves...

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04-30-2007, 16:37 PM	#92 (permalink)
MrFirst Contributor Join Date: 01-02-07 Location: Empire of Evil Posts: 576	What's that - "State IP-adresses from Moscow"? I'm person far from IT, and I do not understand what does that mean - "state IP-adress"? Maybe these reporters have checked these IPs through one of the sites, and have saw something like : "***..** Kremlin. Moscow"?.. And how a "state" IP is different from a non-state?..

04-30-2007, 17:24 PM	#96 (permalink)
MrFirst Contributor Join Date: 01-02-07 Location: Empire of Evil Posts: 576	As far as I understand, Yeltsin statue would be Estonia's final revenge to Russia?..

04-30-2007, 17:30 PM	#98 (permalink)
braindead Lost in Translation *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-30-06 Location: estonia Posts: 1,260 Country:	here is the full text : Postimees: Rein Langi sõnul ründavad Vene riigiasutused Eesti veebiservereid Translation is by me , so you will have to take my word for it :´´Rein Lang , Minister of Justice told to news program that attack to Est.Web-servers come from Moscow , state-owned IP-adresses. ´´Today is clear that these attacks come from abroad and it is not necessary to hide from which country they come. ´´says R.Lang ´´They come from State (state-owned/goverment - BD) IP-adresses from Moscow . This hints that in Russia there are forces who have completely lost their mind´´ . CERT Eesti (state info-systems development centre - ? - i guess, don´t know how to translate it ) announced today that during yesterday and today persistant attacks have been continued to halt Est. state web servers and there have been attempts to stop the work of all goverment agencies electronic communications network . Therefore there are still problems accessing goverment pages from outside estonia. Attack started late Friday , 27th of April´´ IP address - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

04-30-2007, 17:43 PM	#99 (permalink)
MrFirst Contributor Join Date: 01-02-07 Location: Empire of Evil Posts: 576	That's not clarifying the issue. Through IPs they could define internet provider. Are there state internet providers in Russia? Haven't heard. Still is not clear what your justice minister had meant.

05-02-2007, 12:42 PM	#104 (permalink)
braindead Lost in Translation *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-30-06 Location: estonia Posts: 1,260 Country:	To understand why poles are so hard allies , one just has to take a look in their history . Poland has been traded , divided and conquered probably more than any other country in Europe . Their determination to set their own course is probably the biggest in Europe .

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