entropy

After all this will be over, Estonians will hate Russians even more. They will probably remove every public text (street names ...) that have Russian on it, close Russian schools, and eat Russian children :D

And braindead, I liked your theory about the Finland and prison rape.
All I can add to it is Stalin's quote "if you cannot kill a man, you must buy that man".
Which USSR did. Finland went nearly bankrupt when the USSR collapsed, the entire ship industry was dead.

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If memory serves...

Garry

Why Baltics did not unite and fight? I mean Finland was not a formidable force in 1940-es.... whatever statements are their army was not 250.000 as stated in the wikipedia.... this was when it got mobilized to last man.... in the begining it was only 80.000 soldiers. In terms of population Baltic states had more people than 4mln of Finland.... and in terms of equipement they had more artillery than Finish army.

Why they never tried to fight back? What happened in those years? I know little about this episode of the history

braindead

Sorry , Garry - will answer to that tomorrow evening , watching TV . Scary sh!t. Riot police is getting really effective . Rioters tonight are younger , 15-20 .
current pictures - VÄRSKED FOTOD: Õhtused vahejuhtumid Tallinna kesklinnas - Eesti Päevaleht Online
yesterday - FOTOD: Öine vandalism Tallinna kesklinnas - Eesti Päevaleht Online

Well if somebody will win from this its the skinheads movement . If until now there were about 150-250 in estonia , well they´re numbers will certainly grow .

RED ARMY MONUMENT REMOVED FROM TALLINN AMID MOSCOW-ENCOURAGED RIOTS - Eurasia Daily Monitor - that is quite my opinion on it too

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beka

The Balkans have been under some form of Russian empire for hundreds and hundreds of years/or under the Turks. Before this how long has their really been an independent nation of Moldova. One could easily ask why didn't the Indians of N.America band together to fight us (or why didn't the Mexicans and the Indians ban to gether to fight us.) It's hard when your neighbor is a collossus.

Look, I don't think that either side Russia/or the United States have anything but their own interests in the whole Orange Revolution versus blue etc in Ukraine.

However, I will say this. Russia has security reasons for wanting some control over the Balkan states (they are in their neighborhood).

Americans have this concept of the Monroe Doctrine, we don't allow foreign states like Russia to put weapons/bases on states surrounding us.... If we want Russia/ China/etc to respect the Monroe doctrine and not intervere in Mexico/Cuba. Than, I think that we should stop interferring in Russia's backyard. Nowing how many invasions Russia faced coming from the Ukraine in the past etc... I can quite understand why they would want a friendly government there.

Garry

Hi Beka! I think that both Russian concerns over its neighbours as well as Monroe Doctrine are outdated... the world moved on and now one needs to work hard to be popular in his backyard. That is why Russians are being hated in baltic states/west ukraine/poland and USA is being hated in Latin America. THEY ARE BOTH TOO AROGANT to their backyard...... on the opposite USA is popular in Russian backyard while Russia is getting a lot of business on Latin American antiamericanizm... Paradox ha?

beka

Russia isn't necessarily hated in the Ukraine. The Ukrainians are actually pretty divided between those who want closer ties to the west and those who want closer ties to Russia...I agree the Monroe doctrine is hypocritical....But I'm saying that it is ridiculous for the US to claim the Monroe doctrine, but not respect other countries' particular Monroe doctrines...

Also, I want to point out that in Russia's case there are a lot of ethnic Russians livining in Georgia, Ukraine, Estonia etc.. Some provinces in Georgia want to break away to join Russia...So there is a little more to it than this is my back yard. Those countries for better or worse where once part of the United States.

It would be like the problems that would occur if Mexico got California, Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico back. And no offense but we did steal those states a way from Mexico, and they have only been part of our country, from a short time by historical standards. Ukraine/Estonia/Balkans have been a part of Russia for centuries (I'm including Tsarist times) I'm not saying they should go back, but what I am saying is that there is a reason why Russia would not want a hostile government there.

braindead

Well , things are more complicated . For over a century we were a part of Swedish Empire . Russia has been part of greater mongolia
As of the reason why Baltic states didn´t co-operate - well , if EU cannot make a standing army now , how could they do it then? Actually the fiscal situation in all countries was quite dire , to finance 2 new subs , our goverment had to sell some old warships and there was a public-fund raise . Besides , our army had more equipment than Weimar republic , but it was almost all WWI-relics. Some things were modernised , some new equipment bought (Spitfires, british subs , AT&AD guns, cars), but not enough to be considered a major power . Latvia was doing even worse , don´t know about Lithuania . Official goverment foreign policy was basicly sitting on a fence , leaning towards Great Britain.
Internally the situation was pretty tense , as the rise of totaliarism touched us too. in 1934 then State Holder Päts made a coup to prevent radical nationalist (but not fascist) movement getting into power . From then on up to 1940 it was a mild dictatorship (Presidency). Latvia and Lithuania had the same form of goverment . The sad fact is that by 1939 our president was a tired , old , and not man enough to stand up against Stalin . The foreign minister went to Moscow and was put up to a choice : Sov.bases or war. the goverment gave up . The original agreement was for 25000 troops (or 35000 , don´t remember), but it was soon 150000. And then it was over. Lesson learned - NEVER AGAIN .

MrFirst

You say as if someone wants it "again". Take it easy, even if you blow up the Bronze Soldier or cut it into pieces, noone will attack and invade your country. Noone is going to seize you.

braindead

Ah , I was not agitated . I was just underlining what the Republic means to me . No , I´m not suggesting the hordes of nashists invading my home country or that tomorrow morning there will praportshiki of paratroopers standing on every corner .

Berkis

Well...perhaps the timing to return to this subject is not realy proper. Having lived in both countries, I really haven't noticed any basic differences, except that estonians are able to exploit in full their geographical and language proximity to Finland. Well, one could indicate to Tallink success and port development. Latvians on the other hand can say that the best airport in the Baltics is in Riga. Air Baltic has expanded also to Lithuania. I bet that joining the eurozone will take place simultaneously. But you probably have your own views.

braindead

Ah, it was more like inside joke

braindead

Well , on press conference today it was announced that B.Soldier will be opened with full honours 8th of May on the military cemetary . As originally planned .

Berkis

Well...one more proof of historical significance of V E Day all over the Europe

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Usus magister est optimus

entropy

You and me will drink a beer there next time I come over :D

braindead

Hope so