Russia on the march - again - Page 4

braindead · 04-18-2007, 17:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFirst

A kind of alive field, always changeable.

sounds almost as definition of Swamp

MrFirst · 04-18-2007, 17:57 PM

Swamp?.. Aha, that's sound so... Indeed...

But maybe you're even more right. Political life is like swamp.

Ray · 04-24-2007, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Eastern Europe confronts its communist past

Russia warns of souring relations if statues removed

By Gary Peach, Associated Press | April 24, 2007

TALLINN, Estonia -- The life-size statue of a Red Army soldier stands at a crossroads in this Baltic capital, fist clenched and head bowed, marking the spot where Soviet war dead are buried.

But the statue is engulfed in bitter debate over the Soviet Army's place in European history, which could come to a head this week if the Estonian government goes ahead with plans to dig up the tomb and move the statue to a park outside Tallinn.

Russians are appalled, and the Kremlin has warned of "irreversible consequences" for relations with Estonia.

Estonia is not alone. These days, throughout formerly Soviet-controlled Eastern Europe, a battle of symbols and memories is being waged -- over statues, street names, the hammer, and sickle, even Auschwitz. Now firmly entrenched in the West through NATO and European Union membership, many countries are showing renewed eagerness to erase the more visible signs of communism.

The dispute underscores the opposing views of the Soviet legacy in Russia and its former satellites. Russia's resurgent patriotism under President Vladimir Putin has only widened the gap as countries from the Baltics to the Balkans seek to shed the last vestiges of communism.

Russia views the Soviet troops as heroes who rescued the three Baltic states from a racist Nazi regime. Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians say the Soviet regime that held sway over them for 45 years after World War II was even more repressive.

"This is not a monument to the victors of the war but a monument to the destruction of the Estonian republic," said lawmaker Mart Laar.

The problem, says Eugeniusz Smolar, head of the Center for International Relations, a Polish think tank, is that "Russia has never come to terms with its history." Russians continue to see themselves only as victims of World War II, he said, and ignore the dictatorial systems they imposed on the countries they liberated from the Germans.

Opposing interpretations of history clashed earlier this month in Auschwitz, where Polish curators of a museum at the former death camp refused to let Russia open its exhibit.

Russia says hundreds of thousands of "Soviet citizens" died in the Holocaust. The Poles vehemently rejected this, saying those victims, mostly Jews, were from territories occupied by the Soviet Union in league with the Nazis between 1939 and 1941.

Sergei Mironov, a senior Russian lawmaker, called the Polish decision "sacrilegious," and its reasoning "stupid."

After regaining independence, the communist bloc nations tore down statues of Lenin, Stalin, and the idealized socialist laborer. But respect for the Soviet role in defeating Hitler was not erased. In Hungary and Lithuania, many of those statues now stand in parks and are major tourist draws.

In Estonia, scores of Soviet monuments stir no anger -- one-third of the population is ethnic Russian -- but the Bronze Soldier stands out because it has become a popular staging point for pro-Russian rallies.

Poland's governing Law and Justice party has called for changing street names that have a communist taint. Romania has issued a 650-page report detailing and condemning communist atrocities.

In 2005, members of the European Parliament from former communist countries demanded that communist symbols be banned along with the swastika, citing the death toll inflicted by communist dictatorships. The initiative was rejected.

Estonian lawmakers are pushing for a ban on the hammer and sickle, while Latvian lawmakers have drafted legislation making it a crime to deny the Soviet occupation.

In Hungary, a right-wing fringe group has gathered 200,000 signatures calling for a referendum on removing a prominent Soviet war memorial in Budapest. However, Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany is opposed. "We are not the only ones who have national feelings," he told Parliament. "Stirring up this issue would bring Hungary more harm than good."

But in Tallinn, the atmosphere is heating up. The government is determined to remove the Bronze Soldier, while Estonia's Russians, who make up about one-third of the country's population, will try to prevent it.

Nashi, a large pro-Kremlin youth group in Russia , has promised to send young people to stand guard over the monument. Sergei Ivanov, Russia's first deputy prime minister and possible successor to President Vladimir Putin, called on Russians to stop buying Estonian products and vacationing in the Baltic country.

Vladimir Velman, a member of Estonia's Parliament and a native Russian, warns: "There's going to be trouble as soon as the shovel touches the ground."
© Copyright 2007 Globe Newspaper Company.
Eastern Europe confronts its communist past - The Boston Globe

All these cosmetic changes will not wash off the history of Communism that these countries so gleefully embraced. It may be said that they were forced, but if that is not totally true.

It is only when Communism failed that all these countries found their voice. It is most ludicrous to see them suddenly appearing great champions of democracy and such things.

Many of those who are today the champions of freedom and democracy were Communists. So, what's the big deal. Fat cats and Lotus eaters!

Height of hypocrisy!

braindead · 04-24-2007, 12:04 PM

Sir you seem to forget Prague 1968 , Budapest 1956 , Poland 1980 , East Germany 1953, in Baltic states ´´Forest Brothers´´ (resistance continued to the end of 1950-s , casualties vary , but considered at least 50000, consider that combined population of 3 states was around 5mil.). It is rather sad to read from an educated man that we ´´gleefully embraced´´ . When I grew up , I knew a former Est.Army lieutenant who stayed in forests up to 1956, but the last one here drowned him 1978 to avoid capture .
Yes we still have fat cats and collaborateurs in power , because all the best ones were already eradicated!!!

But at least East Europe looks into past and trys to set things straight.

Ray · 04-24-2007, 12:30 PM

I know it hurts to read the opinion that I have aired.

My apologies.

It was not aimed at the people per se. It was aimed at all these politicians.

I just cannot stand Communists and there are many amongst those who are in power who were Communists and are having the best of both worlds!

Where my mother worked, there were many academicians and students from Russia and Communist countries and even elsewhere. Haldane used to be a Professor there too!

You should have heard them praise the Communist way of life and we as children were real confused. On one side were these Communists intellectuals and they were brilliant and on the other side, Readers Digest!

Yes, I have read of the attempts to overthrow Russian presence or should I say, Soviet presence. I have also seen with horror how Nehru turned a blind eye!

But to be frank, I don't seriously believe in these 'revolutions' as totally from within. There is always the influence of foreign nations and big money! I see the insurrection in my country being financed by foreign money and interests!

Still, I wish to once again say that my aim was not to hurt you or anyone else. It was because I am sure the politicians are in the pay of foreign powers and don't care a damn about the people and most of them are erstwhile Communists! Wolves in sheep's clothing!

I don't believe any politician the world over!

Look at the mess in Ukraine and Georgia. If it was truly a spontaneous 'peoples revolution', it should not have turned sour so quickly! BIG MONEY AND CROOKED POLITICIANS!

In Ukraine, that pocked marked man, who came to power with so much of hoop la, has pocketed the money and forgotten the people!

Poland was a fraud. The Church worked for ages! The others could be true anger and revolutions in the making!

I don't think that the politicians care for either you or me!

braindead · 04-24-2007, 13:22 PM

No need to apologiize , the truth can hurt . And agreed on politicians . Homo politicus is a different species . Of course all revolutions have (at least ) some outside influence , if not at least inspired by outside world . But there is another saying that ´´politicians mirror their country´´. That is a sobering thought... One always has to think :´´Is this really the country we wanted?´´. The real threat from not facing the communist past is that it leaves one as divided personality : it wasn´t me! That´s why Germany opened the Stasi files, and the rest should do too.
As of Georgia and Ukraine - the lines are nowhere as clear as 15 years ago, too much has happened .

Well India has been independent for almost 60 years , we 15. Compare the situation in India in 1962 and as of now

.

Ray · 04-24-2007, 14:53 PM

Insurgency in India has had foreign influence and bags and bags of foreign money right from Day #1.

I will not get into it.

Too many skeletons will fall out of the cupboard!

MrFirst · 04-24-2007, 17:16 PM

Looking at India it seems Estonia must be happy having such peaceful neighbour like Russia.

But instead of that she fight against memorials.

MrFirst · 04-25-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Estonian prime minister: Drunken looters are buried under the Bronze Soldier Monument

Speaking at the Estonian parliament and answering a question about the Bronze Soldier Monument in the Tonismagi Square, Estonian Prime Minister Andrus Ansip said that excavations would be certainly held there and then it will become known, whether there are any burial grounds there at all, Estonian Youth newspaper reports today.

According to the source, he sounded rumors of the grave appearing in September 1944. First, Ansip informed about “total binge” that took part in Soviet troop after capturing Tallinn, as a consequence of which drunken soldiers were run over by their own tank and buried in Tonismagi. The second scenario, according to the prime minister is the following: the tankman was drunk and ran over his mates. The third scenario: looters, who had been executed, were buried there. The fourth version is that patients of a nearby hospital are there.

www.regnum.ru/english/817953.html

So, the former supervisor of Tartu's city committee of Communist party of Estonia, who is the current Estonian Prime Minister Andrus Ansip, continues his cavalry attack against the bronze memorial monument. The heaviest arguments started, leave no stone unturned.

Ray · 04-25-2007, 13:42 PM

Quote:

Romania: Crisis and impeachment

The impeachment referendum against suspended President Traian Basescu will not put an end to Romania's political crisis.

By Cristina Viehmann for ISN Security Watch (25/04/07)

Romania's parliament last week approved President Traian Basescu's suspension in a 322-108 vote. It is the first time in the country's history that a president has been removed from office.

Basescu had initially intended to resign and run for a new term if suspended. However, because of his final decision not to resign, he now faces an impeachment referendum, which will most likely take place on 20 May.

The president had argued that resigning would unnecessarily extend Romania's political chaos, explaining that by facing a referendum instead he was putting stability and national interests first.

"The best solution for Romania is for me to take part in the referendum," the president said in a public statement.

The parliament suspended Basescu on charges of abuse of office and constitutional violations. Specifically, he was accused of generating political instability, putting pressure on the judiciary by criticizing judges, interfering in favor of interest groups and wiretapping ministers' phones. Citing lack of evidence, the constitutional court declared these accusations groundless.

It is questionable whether the announced referendum on the president's impeachment will lead to a solution to the political crisis. According to opinion polls, Basescu is backed by 50 percent of the electorate and is therefore very likely to win and return to office. But once in power, he will find himself immobilized by the parliament.

Late on Sunday, the suspended president spoke in front of thousands of people protesting the parliamentary decision. The president repeated that he was not representing any political party or interest group and that he saw himself as a representative of the people. What he seems to forget, though, is that while his return to power depends only on the people, his ability to govern depends on support from the other parties.

There is more than one answer to the question of why Prime Minister Calin Popescu Tariceanu's National Liberal Party (PNL) and opposition parties started the fight against such a popular president. The easiest explanation for Romania's crisis lies in the political dispute between Basescu and Tariceanu. Their misunderstandings in 2006 circled around topics such as early elections, which Tariceanu did not want, and the troop withdrawal from Iraq, which Basescu rejected.

But there may be other reasons as well. The president's reforms were undeniably aimed against the interests of many politicians, many of them belonging to the Social Democrat Party (PSD), which ruled Romania from 1990 until 1996 and again from 2000 to 2004.

On 3 April, Romania was given a new government from which all ministers from the Democratic Party (PD) - Basescu's party - were banished. The new government, formed by Tariceanu's PNL and the Democrat Union of Hungarians in Romania (UDMR), was officially supported by the PSD. But the new government only represents 22 percent of the parliament. For any other vote it needs the support of the PSD - support which cannot be taken for granted.

Political analyst Rodica Culcer wrote in last week's edition of the Romanian magazine Revista 22 that the leftist party might continue to undermine the current government in the scope of destroying it when the right moment comes.

For many, the PSD symbolizes what Romania was unable to deal with after 1989 - its communist past.

Ion Caramitru, director of Romania's National Theater and a respected political figure, told NewsIn news agency on Friday that Basescu's suspension was an expected outcome in a country which was unable to eliminate the old communist elite from the political scene after 1989. However, absurdly enough, Basescu himself, like many of his PSD opponents, is part of the old guard.

Most of the concerns regarding the current political crisis in Romania address the country's EU membership. Concerns about the future of justice reforms, the absorption of euros coming from the EU and foreign investors insecurity are justifiable.

But for the time being, Romania seems to manage even in spite of its politicians. The economy is booming, with last year's GDP expanding by 7.7 percent, and the country has received unexpected levels of investment.

However, Romania cannot afford the lack of leadership in the long run. The solution to the current crisis will not be the impeachment referendum on 20 May but new parliamentary elections later this year, which will hopefully make the country governable again. And until these have taken place, the EU will keep an eye on Romania, one of its youngest members. Losing the benefits that derive from joining the EU might teach all politicians a lesson.

ISN Security Watch - Romania: Crisis and impeachment

Braindead and Mr First,

Could you comment on this?

What is the background and please go back right from the time the USSR collapsed.

How does this affect NATO, EU and Russia?

What are the influences that has caused this i.e. NATO, EU and Russia.

How does it affect Russia march into influencing East European politics?

Ray · 04-25-2007, 13:47 PM

Also have a look at this in the light of Russia reasserting herself in Eastern Europe:

U.N. Security Council Heads to Kosovo - Forbes.com

MrFirst · 04-25-2007, 17:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

Braindead and Mr First,

Could you comment on this?

What is the background and please go back right from the time the USSR collapsed.

How does this affect NATO, EU and Russia?

What are the influences that has caused this i.e. NATO, EU and Russia.

How does it affect Russia march into influencing East European politics?

I don't know, Ray... News from Romania are not in a top of Russian media. There was one Romanian here, maybe he would comment this? As far as I know Romania was one of such East European countries that didn't separate the old communist political elite from the power, like it has happened in Poland and Czechia, there anti-communists have come to power and closed all state offices for old authorities' representatives. In fact Romania was ruled by former communists like Iliesku, the next president after Chaushesku's overthrow.

braindead · 04-25-2007, 17:37 PM

Ray , Sir - my knowledge about Romanian affairs is extremely limited , but I try to give my opinion .
1. Romania is the only country in Eastern Europe , where political change came through violence , resulting the killing of it´s dictator . And one has to remember that Romania´s economic situation was probably the worst in East Eur. , except of Albania , thanks to Ceauscescu´s ideas of economic independence. On the other hand Romania had quite independent foreign policy (condemned WP trip to Prague 1968 , was visited by Nixon and Q. Elizabeth (?)).
But IMO they had a bad start due dire economical situation and because of lack of non-compomized leadership . It was the most authoritarian country of East.Bloc (again , except Albania perhaps). The economy struggled up to last 5-6 years , after which things have improved much.
As of current situation in Romania : i´m not very familiar with their legislative system , but still the outcome will be a little diiferent from current situation in Ukraine, because he still would get a majority of popular vote .
2. It does not affect much EU , if one does not count in the sighing in Brussels ´´those #"!¤ eastern europeans...´´. As of Russia : current president has voiced his hope that in future Moldova and Romania will be united , be it as a country or together in EU, so this concerns them probably alot. The current president is a ally to Bush too and supports strongly Romania´s presence in Iraq, so he has his support too.
3. Cannot speak of influences , have no info to make suggestions. Could be ´´the hairy hand of Kremlin´´ or just personality/background clashes. I dare not to make any comments on that

edited: as Mr.First says news from Romania are not top of the list in newspapers here too

As of situation in Kosovo - I´m tipping towards Russias position. As I of course have no firsthand experience , i have to rely on some of my acquaintances opinions who (2 ) have been there as peacekeepers and one who worked for EU . According to them Gueheno´s comments seem to be from another planet .Russians comment "overly optimistic" seems to be an very polite understatement.

braindead · 04-25-2007, 18:04 PM

Mr.First - searched the Parliament scripts and newspapers - did not find any such comments . But could be my fault too , I´m just not very good on web searhes

.
Speaking at the Estonian parliament and answering a question about the Bronze Soldier Monument in the Tonismagi Square, Estonian Prime Minister Andrus Ansip said that excavations would be certainly held there and then it will become known, whether there are any burial grounds there at all, Estonian Youth newspaper reports today.

According to the source, he sounded rumors of the grave appearing in September 1944. First, Ansip informed about “total binge” that took part in Soviet troop after capturing Tallinn, as a consequence of which drunken soldiers were run over by their own tank and buried in Tonismagi. The second scenario, according to the prime minister is the following: the tankman was drunk and ran over his mates. The third scenario: looters, who had been executed, were buried there. The fourth version is that patients of a nearby hospital are there.
- we do not have newspaper called Estonian Youth , but Molodyozh Estonii , so they might be not very ...erm... neutral. Could be taken out of context too.
- total binge took place , I have heard from my grandparents from that( and that ´´total binge´´ is an understatement). tank mishap(s) took place too AFAIk and looters were shot too on some occasions . So there might be some truth in this. We´ll soon find out

.
Ansip was an excellent mayor in Tartu , but after former head of his party left to become a comissioner in EU , he seems to be out of his league . He´s got on recent parlament elections the strongest electoral vote ever on single person , but this is much more thanks to economical situation . He would have had to work extremely hard to lose the elections.
Oh , BTW , do you have the ´´work shadow´´ program in Russia too ? this means that on one day high school students get to follow one professional person (be it PM, policeman , teacher , steelworker), who has to show the job to student for one day. My youngest brother was Ansip´s ´´work shadow´´ when he was still a mayor of Tartu . It´s a small world

MrFirst · 04-25-2007, 18:30 PM

No, I haven't heard about such programms like this "work shadow".
Just for one day? That's not too much.

04-24-2007, 12:30 PM	#50 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 25,850 Country:	I know it hurts to read the opinion that I have aired. My apologies. It was not aimed at the people per se. It was aimed at all these politicians. I just cannot stand Communists and there are many amongst those who are in power who were Communists and are having the best of both worlds! Where my mother worked, there were many academicians and students from Russia and Communist countries and even elsewhere. Haldane used to be a Professor there too! You should have heard them praise the Communist way of life and we as children were real confused. On one side were these Communists intellectuals and they were brilliant and on the other side, Readers Digest! Yes, I have read of the attempts to overthrow Russian presence or should I say, Soviet presence. I have also seen with horror how Nehru turned a blind eye! But to be frank, I don't seriously believe in these 'revolutions' as totally from within. There is always the influence of foreign nations and big money! I see the insurrection in my country being financed by foreign money and interests! Still, I wish to once again say that my aim was not to hurt you or anyone else. It was because I am sure the politicians are in the pay of foreign powers and don't care a damn about the people and most of them are erstwhile Communists! Wolves in sheep's clothing! I don't believe any politician the world over! Look at the mess in Ukraine and Georgia. If it was truly a spontaneous 'peoples revolution', it should not have turned sour so quickly! BIG MONEY AND CROOKED POLITICIANS! In Ukraine, that pocked marked man, who came to power with so much of hoop la, has pocketed the money and forgotten the people! Poland was a fraud. The Church worked for ages! The others could be true anger and revolutions in the making! I don't think that the politicians care for either you or me! Last edited by Ray : 04-24-2007 at 12:46 PM.

04-24-2007, 13:22 PM	#51 (permalink)
braindead Lost in Translation *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-30-06 Location: estonia Posts: 1,231 Country:	No need to apologiize , the truth can hurt . And agreed on politicians . Homo politicus is a different species . Of course all revolutions have (at least ) some outside influence , if not at least inspired by outside world . But there is another saying that ´´politicians mirror their country´´. That is a sobering thought... One always has to think :´´Is this really the country we wanted?´´. The real threat from not facing the communist past is that it leaves one as divided personality : it wasn´t me! That´s why Germany opened the Stasi files, and the rest should do too. As of Georgia and Ukraine - the lines are nowhere as clear as 15 years ago, too much has happened . Well India has been independent for almost 60 years , we 15. Compare the situation in India in 1962 and as of now . Last edited by braindead : 04-24-2007 at 13:26 PM.

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04-18-2007, 17:57 PM	#47 (permalink)
MrFirst Contributor Join Date: 01-02-07 Location: Empire of Evil Posts: 566	Swamp?.. Aha, that's sound so... Indeed... But maybe you're even more right. Political life is like swamp.

04-24-2007, 12:04 PM	#49 (permalink)
braindead Lost in Translation *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-30-06 Location: estonia Posts: 1,231 Country:	Sir you seem to forget Prague 1968 , Budapest 1956 , Poland 1980 , East Germany 1953, in Baltic states ´´Forest Brothers´´ (resistance continued to the end of 1950-s , casualties vary , but considered at least 50000, consider that combined population of 3 states was around 5mil.). It is rather sad to read from an educated man that we ´´gleefully embraced´´ . When I grew up , I knew a former Est.Army lieutenant who stayed in forests up to 1956, but the last one here drowned him 1978 to avoid capture . Yes we still have fat cats and collaborateurs in power , because all the best ones were already eradicated!!! But at least East Europe looks into past and trys to set things straight.

04-24-2007, 14:53 PM	#52 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 25,850 Country:	Insurgency in India has had foreign influence and bags and bags of foreign money right from Day #1. I will not get into it. Too many skeletons will fall out of the cupboard!

04-24-2007, 17:16 PM	#53 (permalink)
MrFirst Contributor Join Date: 01-02-07 Location: Empire of Evil Posts: 566	Looking at India it seems Estonia must be happy having such peaceful neighbour like Russia. But instead of that she fight against memorials.

04-25-2007, 13:47 PM	#56 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 25,850 Country:	Also have a look at this in the light of Russia reasserting herself in Eastern Europe: U.N. Security Council Heads to Kosovo - Forbes.com

04-25-2007, 17:37 PM	#58 (permalink)
braindead Lost in Translation *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-30-06 Location: estonia Posts: 1,231 Country:	Ray , Sir - my knowledge about Romanian affairs is extremely limited , but I try to give my opinion . 1. Romania is the only country in Eastern Europe , where political change came through violence , resulting the killing of it´s dictator . And one has to remember that Romania´s economic situation was probably the worst in East Eur. , except of Albania , thanks to Ceauscescu´s ideas of economic independence. On the other hand Romania had quite independent foreign policy (condemned WP trip to Prague 1968 , was visited by Nixon and Q. Elizabeth (?)). But IMO they had a bad start due dire economical situation and because of lack of non-compomized leadership . It was the most authoritarian country of East.Bloc (again , except Albania perhaps). The economy struggled up to last 5-6 years , after which things have improved much. As of current situation in Romania : i´m not very familiar with their legislative system , but still the outcome will be a little diiferent from current situation in Ukraine, because he still would get a majority of popular vote . 2. It does not affect much EU , if one does not count in the sighing in Brussels ´´those #"!¤ eastern europeans...´´. As of Russia : current president has voiced his hope that in future Moldova and Romania will be united , be it as a country or together in EU, so this concerns them probably alot. The current president is a ally to Bush too and supports strongly Romania´s presence in Iraq, so he has his support too. 3. Cannot speak of influences , have no info to make suggestions. Could be ´´the hairy hand of Kremlin´´ or just personality/background clashes. I dare not to make any comments on that edited: as Mr.First says news from Romania are not top of the list in newspapers here too As of situation in Kosovo - I´m tipping towards Russias position. As I of course have no firsthand experience , i have to rely on some of my acquaintances opinions who (2 ) have been there as peacekeepers and one who worked for EU . According to them Gueheno´s comments seem to be from another planet .Russians comment "overly optimistic" seems to be an very polite understatement.

04-25-2007, 18:04 PM	#59 (permalink)
braindead Lost in Translation *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-30-06 Location: estonia Posts: 1,231 Country:	Mr.First - searched the Parliament scripts and newspapers - did not find any such comments . But could be my fault too , I´m just not very good on web searhes . Speaking at the Estonian parliament and answering a question about the Bronze Soldier Monument in the Tonismagi Square, Estonian Prime Minister Andrus Ansip said that excavations would be certainly held there and then it will become known, whether there are any burial grounds there at all, Estonian Youth newspaper reports today. According to the source, he sounded rumors of the grave appearing in September 1944. First, Ansip informed about “total binge” that took part in Soviet troop after capturing Tallinn, as a consequence of which drunken soldiers were run over by their own tank and buried in Tonismagi. The second scenario, according to the prime minister is the following: the tankman was drunk and ran over his mates. The third scenario: looters, who had been executed, were buried there. The fourth version is that patients of a nearby hospital are there. - we do not have newspaper called Estonian Youth , but Molodyozh Estonii , so they might be not very ...erm... neutral. Could be taken out of context too. - total binge took place , I have heard from my grandparents from that( and that ´´total binge´´ is an understatement). tank mishap(s) took place too AFAIk and looters were shot too on some occasions . So there might be some truth in this. We´ll soon find out . Ansip was an excellent mayor in Tartu , but after former head of his party left to become a comissioner in EU , he seems to be out of his league . He´s got on recent parlament elections the strongest electoral vote ever on single person , but this is much more thanks to economical situation . He would have had to work extremely hard to lose the elections. Oh , BTW , do you have the ´´work shadow´´ program in Russia too ? this means that on one day high school students get to follow one professional person (be it PM, policeman , teacher , steelworker), who has to show the job to student for one day. My youngest brother was Ansip´s ´´work shadow´´ when he was still a mayor of Tartu . It´s a small world

04-25-2007, 18:30 PM	#60 (permalink)
MrFirst Contributor Join Date: 01-02-07 Location: Empire of Evil Posts: 566	No, I haven't heard about such programms like this "work shadow". Just for one day? That's not too much.

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