Confed999

Thanks for the info Officer of Engineers.

__________________
No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

Anon

That's all well and good Tw, but DU238 doesn't add to the existing radiation level in any appreciable way. It is in fact far less radioactive than naturally occuring U235.

U239, or 'enriched uranium' is another story entirely. If they used that for a penetrator, then you'd have a bigtime legitimate gripe...and so would i.

Praxus

Natural Uranium is mostly U238 but has some U235 and a very small ammont of U234. U234 is the most radioactive and has a massively smaller half lifes then the first two mentioned.Over all Natural Uranium is not very radioactive.

Even U235 which is "enriched" Uranium is not very radioactive. U234 is the only dangerously radioactive form of Uranium.

DU is 99.5% U238 and .5% U235. It is harmless unless you swallow it and get heavy metal poisining.

M21 I think that you are thinking about Pu239 (which is plutonium).

U238 Half Life: 4.5 billion years
U235 Half Life: 710 million years
U234 Half Life: 235 thousand years

Pu239 Half Life: 24 thousand years

Trooth

More troops, or less engagements, are needed. Currently the Coalition is stretched. It is noticable that North Korea is much less of a threat now than it was a few months ago. The reason being that the stark reality is that nothing can be done about the threat, so it better get downgraded.

Personally i find Rumsfeld to be possibly the most dangerous man involved in the war on terror after Bin Laden, Fundamentalist leaders and Ariel Sharon. I cannot trust Rumsfeld. He talks in double speak, he is not only deliberately vague but demonstrates and arrogance that i find deeply worrying when he is confronted with realities, previous statements - his attitude to contradiction and debate is also disturbing. He actually makes me uncomfortable watching him. When there was a reshuffle a few months back and it appeared Rumsfeld was being moved over in place of Colin Powell / Dr Rice i was frankly relieved, but he is returning to the fore, and this i think is a major problem that the US must deal with. He is a danger to the Coalition more than he is a danger to the enemy. IMHO.

tw-acs

- M21SNIPER

define "in any appreciable way"

Is DU238 less radioactive than TUNGSTEN?

Is naturally occuring Uranium naturally found in natural munitions, that naturally begin to decay on impact from excess heat, releasing radioactive material that emits LOW LEVEL RADIATION?

This low level radiation will be around for longer than you can concieve. It may take a long time to accumalate enough of this radioactive material that emits LOW LEVEL RADIATION to see a significant effect on life. HUMAN fishing practices have casued about 90% of all predatory fish to become diminished or extinct, but do you have any concern about such fish?

Probably not, you don't eat the predatory fish, you eat the fish those predatory fish once ate.

The point is we should not wait until to problem grows out of hand. We know the poblem exists and that the way we live has the potential to increase the problem. I think people should be more concious of their surroundings and environment and how humans interact within such and society.

If we can spread radioactive material on the world and not see the detrimental affects from doing so within our lifetimes, is it ok?

Do you have kids?

Do you want there to be a planet for the next generation?

What about the generation after that one so on and so forth?

Praxus

Eviromentalism is just another way for liberals to criticize the percieved flaws of Capitalism.

tw-acs

PRAXUS

Countries that do not have capitalist economic systems pollute.

You brought up capitalism, I am unaware of anyone mentioning capitalism previously in this thread. I am also unaware of how having environmental concern is showing flaws in capitalism. What are these percieved flaws you speak of?

Who is a liberal?

Are you using liberal in the context of the political spectrum or are you using liberal as a right wing insult.

In the case of the latter please refrain from doing so again in the future. It violates policy on this web forum.

Praxus

DU is not harmful beyond the inhailed particles and the effect of that is almost non-exsistent to friendly forces and even civilians. Just read OOE's post.

You were bringing up BS about how DU will ruin the enviroment and supposidly harm future life on earth. It is nothing more then Enviromentalist propoganda which is just anti-human/anti-progress/anti-capitalist bull ****.

tw-acs

Praxus it is very immature to attempt to put words into someone else mouth.

I am a human. I like life. I am pro human life.

If you understand the fundamental way humans live; that is learning from past generations and new creating innovations. Both things that I agree with.

What is your definition of progress?

I am a capitalist.

Why are you trying to hijack this thread. Your posts are not relevant to the previous posts.

I have read OOE's posts and they say that DU is harmful, just not very harmful. That is what I have said "LOW LEVEL RADIATION." Though as I have explained too much of "LOW LEVEL RADIATION" is bad.

Are you aware of what radiation as defined by the field of physics does to life.

Just a couple of curious questions. (humor me)
Have you ever taked an physics course?
What is the speed of light?
Can it be exceeded?

Trooth

Capitalism and environmentalism have nothing to do with each other. They are unrelated. Economic systems can be environmentally friendly, or unfriendly, the system itself couldn't careless, it is down to its practioners views and their accountability to sort out any environmental impact.

Confed999

You should check out the environmentalists here before you say that.

Officer of Engineers

WHAT A LOAD OF CROCK! YOU'RE EXPOSED TO MORE RADIATION BY THE SUN EVERYDAY THAN YOU'VE EVER BEEN BY DU.

186,280 miles per second

And EVERYTHING exceeded the speed of light at the moment of the Big Bang.

__________________
Chimo

Trooth

In what way?

tw-acs

OOE the amount of radiation from a single unit of DU is insignificant.

- tw-acs

The point is 1 unit of DU radiation does not matter. That is the basis of your justification of the use of DU munitions.

DU munitions contaminate areas, large ever expanding areas due to wind.

As the fallout from Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Nuclear test sites, and Chernobyl has made a significant impact on life. So has the use of DU munitions. This imact will continue to grow as the use of DU munitions continues to contaminate the EARTH with radioactive material that emits low level radiation, and that radioactive material cannot be cleaned up.

I understand that Uranium in small amounts, that is low level radiation in small quantities like the amount found in smoke detectors is ok.

As the amount of radiation shifts from small quantities of low level radiation to moderate or even high levels, the term low level radiation loses its relevance as does any arguement to say one single unit of DU radiation is insignifcant, because we are not talking about one unit, I am as you should be talking and thinking about an INFINITE number of units of DU, thus an INFINITE amount of RADIATION.

The big bang and all mass exceeding the speed of light. I have not heard that one before, but physics in this realm is mostly theory.

And that is not answering my question.

- tw-acs

Do you have proof to back up your claims?

- OOE

See I think that is a bad theory. To the best of my understanding of physics:
As mass approaches "c" (the speed of light) time slows down. This phenomena has been observed by persons in space comparing watches on the ground to those in space. The watches in space are in orbit of the earth and thus traveling faster than the actual orbit and revolutions of the EARTH.

Most of the the physics community would agree that mass becomes infinite at the speed of light. That is what some theorize as the cause of blackholes. The mass becomes infinte and the attraction of mass is thus Infinite, Gravity becomes so strong that the mass collapses on itself; a black hole.

And because I know the answer to the question, I will share my knowledge.

There was an expierement, in which a laser was beamed through a tube of Xenon gas. The interesting thing about this beam of light was that it left the tube before all of it had entered the tube. That is it went faster than "c" , 299 792 458 m / s.

The reason light can go faster than the speed of light and not create a black hole is that light has no mass. If you are a fan of the wave theory then this is concept is no hurdle to accept, though if you are into the particle theory, that is photons then you may have a little more to swallow. See gravity only affects mass, and light does not have mass according to popular physics belief. That popular physics belief does not explain how light can be sucked into a black hole, if photons have no mass and gravity is the attraction of mass to mass. A black hole looks black because of the absence of light.

I know my facts, theories and have my own hypothesis.

Where are yours?

The Aricraft that were used to destroy the World Trade Center, as the rest of the US airliners have uranium components.

That means that New York City has some radioactive properties to it after 9-11.

Maybe that will hit home a little closer than me telling you that IRAQ is being contaminated along with the rest of the World and the USA.

Confed999

They have formed their own political and economic agendas, and even their own party, and some are willing to use terrorist tactics just to make a point. One of my favorite things the eco-terrorists have done is to fire bomb SUVs. I wonder if they know burning the vehicle creates hundreds of times the pollution that driving it for years creates?