Kansas Bear

More proof...
http://www.tesev.org.tr/eng/events/halki_sem.pdf

neyzen

My English is too bad, but it is enough to read the article. Also aticle can be found in Turkish.

It is your opinion. And you are only cheep racist.

1) You don't know much about Turkey.
2) But you have google.


"Turkish nationals belonging to non-Moslem minorities shall enjoy the same treatment and security in law and in fact as other Turkish nationals. " Please tell me what does it mean?

Kansas Bear

I'd be impressed if you could learn something without resorting to Ad Hominem! Oh well, children.

Yet you're still wrong....
I don't use google.

Considering you've been proven wrong time and again, maybe you should use google.


Means, the Orthodox faith should have a place to train their priests, just as the Muslim faith has 24 places to train their clerics!!

neyzen

You are right. And Turkish Orthodox citizens can have schools as Muslims have. They have no other way.

What is Ad Hominem... calling you cheap racist? Aren't you?

Kansas Bear

And with that the ignore button is activated.

Expat Canuck

Nice one Kansas.

Isn't calling someone a racist for no real reason a bannable offense?

neyzen

@Expat Canuck

40th article of Lausanne Treaty talks about same rights with Muslims. Muslims in Turkey can not open a private religion school so Ortodoxs. I don't get what is so hard to understand.

It is not only about this topic. Read Kansas's all posts. "Turks this.. Turks that..." He doesn't want to talk some or normal debate. He is aggressive against Turks. If it is not racism please tell me what it is.

Parihaka

I see no evidence of this, or rather I see plenty of evidence that Kansas Bear has an in-depth knowledge of history and is willing to debate anyone on any history from virtually anywhere in the world. I see no evidence that links in-depth knowledge with racism.
If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

24 hour time out.

__________________
In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

Ucar

Although Article 40 of the Lausanne Treaty grants equal rights to all religious minorities in Turkey on the same level as Muslims, its implemetation is not what it promises to be.

The Turkish state has an active and state sponsered program to train and educate students for Muslim Clergy, starting with middle school. However, there is no comparable establishment for Clergy of other religions. On the other hand, members of religions other than Islam, are free to practice their religion. Thus, the provisions of the article are being selectively implemented. Exercise of religion is allowed to a great extent, however training Clergy for religions other than Islam is unofficially and actively discouraged.

neyzen

Muslims and non-muslims are not equal on implementation. Can you imagine an imam who declares him self ecumenical in Turkey? What happens to him? Bartholome told it many times. He should be jailed for it according to law...

"however training Clergy for religions other than Islam is unofficially and actively discouraged." How do say it? Who can open a Muslim Clergy training school without MEB's authority and control? Ortodoxs need religious schools. Their schools must be opened but it must be according to laws. Otherwise, what should we say to muslims who want their own schools? How can you hold them?

Ucar

Ecumenism is a strictly religious debate, and the title itself is religious, and recognized by 300+ million followers of Orthodox Christianity. The title itself has been used since the 6th century, and it was rejected by the modern Turkish state, along with the expropriation of church property. I think this is a disgrace for modern Turkey.

I have made it explicitly clear that by saying I was referring to the fact that recent governments have not established a training regime for the education of non-Muslim clergy. Since the Ministry of Education of Turkey has not established a seperate schooling system on par with Imam Hatip schools, Bartholemew I is appealing for a private school. The way to establish equality is to build a schooling structure where people from religions othen than Islam can get education in order to become Clergymen. Another alternative is to abolish the Imam-Hatip schooling system. Since the latter is not possible in any kind of reality, I thing adopting the former solution is a more "just" way to solve this problem and rightful demand.

Until today, the Turkish state has taken no progressive steps to establish a pratical religious equality among its citizens. The Sunni Islam dominates above all other religious practices in the country, and there is an increasing tendency to interpret all other beliefs as near heresy.

Big K

i am secular,

but,

in order to establish some sort of control over religious activities you have to train religious people first...this is valid for every religions....

am i wrong?

__________________
I'm not willing to remain silent even there will be no effect when i say.

Thiseas

do your priest get educated or not? they do, christian periests canot be educated,you closed the ONLY scholl there was for that reason, in Chalki
You're right, we shouldn't call you turks barbarians and tell people about the genocides you did, on armenian, greeks, assyrians and others.
How can u blame someone for his nature?
You dont have the right to use the world "racist" on others, u have teached the world what racism is, in the extreme.

Thiseas

I can tell you the treatment the Greeks of Konstantinoupolis had back in 1955, when you killed and destroyed everything Greek in your way in the city.
You even destroy the Tomps of the old Patriachs and took their bones out!!!
that wasn't 300 years ago, it was a few decades ago.
People of greek origin in turkey today are afraid to speak their language. the same goes for other minorities, like kurds.
logic says that a poulation of lets say 10,000 people , within 80 years, if let alone would turn to at least the double numper of people.
Out of almost a milion greeks in "your" country back in 1923, only 20,000 greeks live today in Konstantinoupolis and they 're not excactly "happy" in their homes
You have a country because you massacred and terrorized everybody in Ionia, Kapadokia, Kylicia, Armenia,Pontous,Thrace,an all the way back to Eufrates river.
The Hellenic Genocide Petition

The Genocide of the Greeks of Asia Minor was the result of a deliberate policy instituted by the Turkish regimes between 1894 and 1955. It consisted of systematic massacres, tortures, and ethnic cleansing of several millions Hellenes (Greeks) from their lands in the Asia Minor, Constantinople and Eastern Thrace.

Millions of children, men and women were tortured and massacred or expelled from their homes only for being Hellenes. In the same places and often at the same time, were also massacred millions of Armenians and Assyrians.

The only "sin" of those millions of persons was to live where their ancestors had lived for thousands of years before the Turkish invasions. The Turkish rulers carried out with unimaginable cruelty their plan to create a "Turkey for the Turks."

Even though there are endless proofs showing that the Hellenic Genocide is an unquestionable fact, the Hellenic Government is trying to please the military who rule the Turks by referring to the Hellenic Genocide as a "devastation".

Sign the petition below to prevent the Hellenic Government from betraying its own nation and offending the entire Humanity. You will be doing something very important on behalf of justice.

Thiseas

DOCUMENTED MASSACRES OF GREEKS


In 1919, Greeks entered Anatolia with the support of Entente Powers in order to kill Turkish people living in Anatolia. To reach their goals, they didn't hesitate to kill unarmed civilian people, even children.
We are publishing the documents which first appeared in Historical Documents Magazine. The magazine compiled the documents from General Directorate of Government Archives. The magazine includes particularly the Greek atrocities, massacres, rapes, arson targeting unarmed Turkish people and their sacred values between 1919-1922, a period in which the occupation of Western Anatolia took place.

Now we have a question: Do Greeks have any right to bring out the "Asia Minor" genocide while they have committed all these massacres, rapes, murders, and plunders against Turkish and Muslim people?


Click here to see the pictures of Greek massacres.

Below, you can see the original documents which prove all of the massacres, robberies, rapes of Greeks.

Date of The Document Summary
May 20, 1919 The report of Izmir Gendarmerie Division to Gendarmerie General Headquarters about the invasion, the murders, rapes, insults of Greeks against Turkish people during the occupation of Izmir
May 20, 1919 The report of the Denizli Gendarmerie Division about murders and invasion of Greeks
July 3, 1919 The report of Aydin Central Command to 57th Division Command informing about the organization, formation and murders of "Aydin Massacre"
July 7, 1919 The report of 57th Division Command to 2nd Army Inspectors about the cruelly murdered Muslim people who happened to escape from the "Burning of Aydin"
July 7, 1919 The report of 57th Division Command to 2nd Army Inspectors about burning of Aydin, killing of civilian people and the head officer, the attorney general and the judge by Greeks
August 1, 1919 The notes about the massacre of people in Cuma quarter during the Battle of Aydin
August 30, 1919 The article by the office of Aydin Governor to Lieutenant Colonel Kadri Bey about murders, insults and robberies of Greeks around İzmir
September 13, 1919 The petition of her father and doctor report about the rape of an 8-year-old girl by Greek soldiers
September 13, 1919 The statement of a girl raped by Greek soldiers
September 13, 1919 The statement of a brother whose sister was raped by Greek soldiers
October 31, 1919 The writing of Heyeti Temsiliye stating that more than five hundred Muslim people in Odemis, Bergama, Tire and Salihli districts have been arrested and tortured with pretext of aiding national forces.
November 7, 1919 The report of Military Police Organization concerning crimes commited by Greeks such as murders, robberies, fire starting, insults against mosques and even Koran in Yenisehir and surrounding villages.
January 30, 1921 The report prepared by the Military Police Bozüyük Directorate and presented to the Western Front Headquarters about the atrocities of Greeks such as theft, plunder, and rape committed against people of Bozüyük and Sögüt.
April 8, 1921 The help request of the Western Front Headquarters from General Staff concerning the fires of Bilecik, Sögüt, Bozüyük, the massacre of the Turkish people, including the müfti of Bilecik, and the suffering of the survivors.
April 10, 1921 The testimony of the captured Greek Lieutenant Teodoros Pedlis about the fire of Bozüyük.
April 11, 1921 The orders of the Western Front Headquarters about the participation of the French writer Madam Glois to the committee formed to investigate the Greek atrocities and destruction in the Western Front region.
October 4, 1921 The letter from Abdülkadir Bey, who medically treated Sidika, burnt by Greek soldiers in Horti Village, to Halide Edip (Adivar) Hanim concerning the event.
November 15, 1922 The report by the 2nd Army Headquarters presented to the Western Front Headquarters about the imprisonment of Turkish villagers, about their mistreatment as POWs and about beheading of some villagers and exhibiting their heads to others.
December 1, 1922 The telegraph from 1st Army Headquarters informing the Western Front Headquarters that in Böceklik, Greek soldiers have burnt 380 of the 1500 people near the station and 30 people in prison.
March 3, 1922 The list prepared by Saruhan Head Office showing the names of Greek soldiers and officers who participated in the atrocities and massacres in Manisa province.
November 22, 1923 The list of the names, prepared by Saruhan Head Office and presented to the Court-martial Presidency, of the Greek soldiers and officers who participated in the atrocities and massacres in Saruhan district during the invasion.



References:

Kadir MISIRLIOGLU; Yunan Mezalimi, 1972, Istanbul

Halide Edip, Yakup Kadri, Falih Rifki; Izmir'den Bursa'ya, 1338 (1922), Deraadet (Istanbul)

Trakya Cemiyetleri Nesriyatindan, Sarki Trakya'da Yunan Zulümleri, 1338 (1922)