Red Storm Rising - Tom Clancy - Page 2

YellowFever · 09-25-2006, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopHatter

No it didn't. It gave Larry Bond a way to end practically every subsequent novel he wrote.

It also gave Clancy a way to end Bear And The Dragon.

Tell me about it.

It was a monumental let down.

I thought Larry Bonds "Red Phoenix" was a more "realistic" book than Red Storm Rising.

dalem · 09-25-2006, 04:01 AM

Considering the fact the Clancy/Bond deliberately constructed a scenario in which the Pact forces were NOT going to use nukes/chems, I think it was a pretty good tale.

-dale

Wraith601 · 09-27-2006, 01:56 AM

I also like Harold Coyle's earlier WWIII books such as Team Yankee and Sword Point.

lwarmonger · 09-29-2006, 19:09 PM

I thought it was pretty good given the information they had at the time (discussing a nuclear conflict wasn't the goal). I think it would be an accurate depiction of a non-nuclear conflict in 1979 or 1980.

Other than the naval element of course. That was an assumption of everything going right for the Soviets which I think was unlikely.

**TopHatter** · 09-29-2006, 21:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lwarmonger

Other than the naval element of course. That was an assumption of everything going right for the Soviets which I think was unlikely.

Operation Polar Glory (the invasion of Iceland) did seem like it went somewhat "too well" given the circumstances, but I guess you can chalk it up to fortunes of war and all that.

There were a few points that they were careful to make, like one of the Soviet ASM's making a lucky direct hit on the Marine CP, decapitating the garrison leadership.

Personally I was disappointed with the amount of time given to the ground war in Germany, at least compared to the other storylines. Just a minor gripe though.

dalem · 09-30-2006, 00:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Operation Polar Glory (the invasion of Iceland) did seem like it went somewhat "too well" given the circumstances, but I guess you can chalk it up to fortunes of war and all that.

There were a few points that they were careful to make, like one of the Soviet ASM's making a lucky direct hit on the Marine CP, decapitating the garrison leadership.

Personally I was disappointed with the amount of time given to the ground war in Germany, at least compared to the other storylines. Just a minor gripe though.

In one of the discussions about the scenario laid out for RSR (Clancy & Bond used Bond's miniature game rules, Harpoon, for "modeling") one of them blatantly stated that without closing the Atlantic, the Sovs simply could not win the conventional ground war they had set up for the basic story. So they wrote the story (remember folks, it's a story

) so that Polar Glory went exceedingly well - not only was Iceland denied to NATO, but it was usable by the Sovs.

Remember a line by one of the first Sov air officers that comes over: "I think they'll use a nuke to close this base down on us - I would."

So there are brief glimpses of the probable reality even while Clancy & Bond wove their fiction around a careful core.

-dale

**TopHatter** · 10-01-2006, 11:50 AM

Speaking of Iceland, Wikipedia has this (unsourced) statement:

Quote:

The [now-closed Keflavik] NATO military base is used as a setting for an important story line in Tom Clancy's novel Red Storm Rising. However, Clancy's descriptions of the base, the geography, local flora, and the station equipment were largely inaccurate

The ASAT parts of the book are at least grounded in reality pretty well:

Quote:

From January 1984 to September 1986, an F-15A was used as a launch platform for five ASM-135 ASAT missiles. The F-15A went into a supersonic climb and released the ASAT missile at an altitude of 11.6 km. The F-15A computer was updated to control the zoom-climb and missile release. The third test flight involved a retired communications satellite in a 555 km orbit, which was successfully destroyed by sheer kinetic energy. The pilot, USAF Major Wilbert D. "Doug" Pearson, became the first pilot ever to destroy an orbiting satellite.

The ASAT missile was designed to be a standoff anti-satellite weapon, with an undetected first stage (the F-15A).

Silent Hunter · 12-07-2007, 10:46 AM

I've read this (and written an article on it over at Television Tropes and Idioms). It's one of my favourite books. It introduced me to the Tu-22M for a start.

Someone's done a whole campaign based on the novel for Dangerous Waters.

Speedy · 12-07-2007, 23:06 PM

In my opinion Ralph Peters' "Red Army" was far superior to any Clancy book.

troung · 12-14-2007, 21:32 PM

Does anyone know what the wartime plans were for Mongolia?

Feanor · 12-15-2007, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troung

Does anyone know what the wartime plans were for Mongolia?

No doubt to seize control of the Pacific and Hawaii, and prepare a general invasion of California

**TopHatter** · 12-15-2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor

No doubt to seize control of the Pacific and Hawaii, and prepare a general invasion of California

Ok Yamamoto, whatever

Feanor · 12-15-2007, 16:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Ok Yamamoto, whatever

Come on, don't tell me you didn't realize that was sarcasm............

I mean seriously. The significance of a country with a population less then the size of the Soviet Army, located between USSR and China, possessing a generally poor economy and no modern military tech............

HistoricalDavid · 12-15-2007, 17:52 PM

I don't think they meant Mongolia's war plans, but what China and the USSR were going to do with it, or in it.

**TopHatter** · 12-16-2007, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor

Come on, don't tell me you didn't realize that was sarcasm.

Yes, I did realize that.

Didn't you?

Oddly enough, I recently bought a most intriguing book: Hawaii Under the Rising Sun: Japan's Plans for Conquest After Pearl Harbor

A most interesting read. I highly recommend it for anybody with an interest in what the Japanese had in mind for Hawaii

09-27-2006, 01:56 AM	#18 (permalink)
Wraith601 Title Classified *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-23-04 Location: Mississippi Posts: 1,144 Country:	I also like Harold Coyle's earlier WWIII books such as Team Yankee and Sword Point. __________________ "We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be, detested in France." -Sir Arthur Wellesley

12-14-2007, 21:32 PM	#25 (permalink)
troung A Self Important *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-03-03 Posts: 4,390 Country:	Does anyone know what the wartime plans were for Mongolia? __________________ To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

12-15-2007, 17:52 PM	#29 (permalink)
HistoricalDavid Distant Deeps or Skies *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 07-19-05 Location: North London, UK Posts: 2,129 Country:	I don't think they meant Mongolia's war plans, but what China and the USSR were going to do with it, or in it. __________________ HD Ready?

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09-25-2006, 04:01 AM	#17 (permalink)
dalem Lord High Hullabalooster *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-23-04 Location: Columbia Heights, MN Posts: 8,765 Country:	Considering the fact the Clancy/Bond deliberately constructed a scenario in which the Pact forces were NOT going to use nukes/chems, I think it was a pretty good tale. -dale

09-29-2006, 19:09 PM	#19 (permalink)
lwarmonger *Military Professional* Join Date: 02-08-05 Posts: 1,784	I thought it was pretty good given the information they had at the time (discussing a nuclear conflict wasn't the goal). I think it would be an accurate depiction of a non-nuclear conflict in 1979 or 1980. Other than the naval element of course. That was an assumption of everything going right for the Soviets which I think was unlikely.

12-07-2007, 10:46 AM	#23 (permalink)
Silent Hunter Contributor Join Date: 08-09-07 Location: London, UK Posts: 617 Country:	I've read this (and written an article on it over at Television Tropes and Idioms). It's one of my favourite books. It introduced me to the Tu-22M for a start. Someone's done a whole campaign based on the novel for Dangerous Waters.

12-07-2007, 23:06 PM	#24 (permalink)
Speedy Regular Join Date: 11-24-04 Location: Australia Posts: 131 Country:	In my opinion Ralph Peters' "Red Army" was far superior to any Clancy book.

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