Ray

YWF,


That's again where you take the extreme view.

Miniskirts and bikinis even in the West are by no means the index for guaging democracy. Do quote where bikinis and minis have been taken as the highest standards for democracy.

You must realise that today's world is a global village. If the US sneezes, the world catches a cold. If London is bombed, apprehension siezes the world because it could be them next.

There is nothing wrong with Islam as such, except for the quaint customs of justice enshrined in the Shariat and the Hudood. Heard of all the stuff happening Pakistan? Do go to the Social sub sub forum of the Asian sub forum. Even the Pakistanis are disgusted with it and they are as good a Moslem as you are.

Would you like Iran to carry out beheadings? Would you like women to be stoned to death? It affects others since by mistake they can be applied on you on even trumped up charges just because four "pious" Moslems bear witness!

What tommy rot is it that four blasted "pious" Moslems are to be believed and not the Pope?

Such stupidity is what is the main concern when any Moslem country wants to adopt the Islam jurisprudence.

So, go preach your junk elsewhere. This forum has gone through this umpteen number of times.

Ray

YWF,

Sure would be interested in these "authentic" sources.

If indeed what you are stating is correct, then WTF YWF is happening?

Not true Moslems?

Diluted in HCl?

Y W F

Who is Dr. Wazeed? Why you take information about islam from anti-islamic websites? If you are serious about finding the facts about Islam, let me know. I will direct you to the right websites. I say that because if I need to find more about Hinduism, I wouldn't go to a christian priest - I would go to the Hindu priest so that he can give me accurate info on Hinduism. Same goes for info about Islam. Relying on anti-islamic websites to defend your already weakened argument only shows your frustration.

Ray

YWF,

You mistake my religion.

If you want to know about Hinduism, go and read German scholars.

Christian piest are not made priest by being an illiterate know by rote Bible regime. They have to hold a degree on Comparitive religion and theology. So, they are not the dumb madrassa types! And they not only know of Hindusim, but also Islam.

Ray

W,

Iqbal, the Imam of London are not Christians.

The other website quotes th Book. Is what they write, wrong?

Dr Wazeed is of the Al Khoea Foundation and was on TV.

I am afraid you are being childish. I have no frustrations since I am quoting issues. Neither is my debate skewed.

You apparently are frustrated and so you wish to pussyfoot tangentially.

Y W F

On Suicide:

http://www.islamicinvitationcentre.c...e/actions.html

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter14.htm

http://islam.about.com/cs/currenteve...icide_bomb.htm

Japanese did kami kaze attacks on US ships... Terrorist hindu tamil tigers are doing suicide attacks on sri lanka civilians... lets see you talk about those. Yet you rely on ANTI islamic websites to pure out the hatred for Islam and Muslims. Any misinformation that you can get on Islam is considered a good defense in your judgement.

Suicide bombing or self killing has NEVER been USED as a military tool by Muslims. It's a stupid idea to begin with and defies logic.

General info on islam:
http://www.islamicity.com
http://www.sultan.org
http://www.themodernreligion.com/index2.html
http://www.islamonline.net/English/index.shtml

If islam was what you are trying to portray (with your anti-islamic sources) then Muslims had a pretty good chance of killing people back when islam was in power from indonesia to france and spain.

Since you have derailed this topic into something of your own interest and something that you thought you can defend by using anti islamic sources, I won't be replying to any of your replies.

Ray

Quranic verses that dictate beheading Kaffirs:

5:33-“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution (by beheading), or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;”

8:12- “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

47:4- “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.”



9:123: “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”

2:191- “Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out.”

5: 45-- “We ordained therein for them: “Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear. Tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.”

2:193- “Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah”

9:29- "Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, (Christian and Jews) who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute (Zizziya tax) by hand, being inferior.”

8:17-It is not ye who Slew them; it is God; when thou threwest a handful of dust, it was not Thy act, but God’s…..” (Allah is a real merciful indeed!)

How can Islamic Mullahs blatantly hide these authentic Quarnic verses? The above Qur’anic scriptures incited early Muslim Jihadis to behead thousands of non-Muslims and other infidels. These same Quranic verses may still inciting devout/fanatical Muslims of modern days. During the early period of Islam, especially during Islamic expeditions by Prophet Muhammad himself while he was in Medina, thousands of infidels were brutally beheaded by the Jihadis. Below is a case in point collected from the authentic Islamic history to use as an example of Islamic beheading.

Proofs of beheading practice by Prophet Muhammad (According to “Sirat A,

Rasul” page 464):

“When Banu Qurayza Jewish tribe was surrendered (627 A.D.) unconditionally, the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches tying theirs both hands with their necks. This beheading went on until the apostle made an end of them. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. Apparently Muhammad himself worked on the digging of the trench into which the massacred Jews were to be thrown. But he (Muhammad) did not only take part in those preparations, the formulation of the text states but also participated himself in beading of at least two of the leading Jews.

Sahi Buchari Hadiths #143, page-700 : Sulaiman Ibne Harb…Aannas Ibne Malek (ra) narrated, “in the war of Khaiber after the inhabitants of Banu Qurayza was surrendered, Allah’s apostle killed all the able/adult men, and he (prophet) took all women and children as captives (Ghani mateer maal).. Among the captives Rayhana a beautiful young Jewish girl was taken by Allah’s Apostle as booty whom He married after freeing her and her freedom was her Mohr.”

Here is the excerpt from Dr. Andew Bostom’s article in the Frontpage Magazine:

‘According to the biography of Prophet Muhammad by Ibn Ishaq, Prophet Muhammad himself sanctioned the massacre of the Qurayza, a vanquished Jewish tribe mercilessly. Thus some 600 to 900 men from the Qurayza were lead on Muhammad’s order to the Market of Medina. Trenches were dug and the men were beheaded, and their decapitated corpses buried in the trenches while Muhammad watched in attendance. Women and children were sold into slavery, a number of them being distributed as gifts among Muhammad’s companions, and Muhammad chose one of the Qurayza women (Rayhana) for himself. The Qurayza’s property and other possessions (including weapons) were also divided up as additional "booty" among the Muslims, to support further jihad campaigns.

The classical Muslim jurist al-Mawardi (a Shafi’ite jurist, d. 1058) from Baghdad was a seminal, prolific scholar who lived during the so-called Islamic "Golden Age" of the Abbasid-Baghdadian Caliphate. He wrote the following, based on widely accepted interpretations of the Qur'an and Sunna (i.e., the recorded words and deeds of Muhammad), regarding infidel prisoners of jihad campaigns:

“As for the captives, the amir [ruler] has the choice of taking the most beneficial action of four possibilities: the first to put them to death by cutting their necks; the second, to enslave them and apply the laws of slavery regarding their sale and manumission; the third, to ransom them in exchange for goods or prisoners; and fourth, to show favor to them and pardon them. Indeed such odious “rules” were iterated by all four classical schools of Islamic jurisprudence, across the vast Muslim empire.

For centuries, from the Iberian Peninsula to the Indian subcontinent, jihad campaigns waged by Muslim armies against infidel Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, Buddhists and Hindus, were punctuated by massacres, including mass throat slittings and beheadings. During the period of “enlightened” Muslim rule, the Christians of Iberian Toledo, who had first submitted to their Arab Muslim invaders in 711 or 712, revolted in 713. In the harsh Muslim reprisal that ensued, Toledo was pillaged, and all the Christian notables had their throats cut.

On the Indian subcontinent, Babur (1483-1530), the founder of the Mughal Empire, who is revered as a paragon of Muslim tolerance by modern revisionist historians, recorded the following in his autobiographical “Baburnama,” about infidel prisoners of a jihad campaign: "Those who were brought in alive [having surrendered] were ordered beheaded, after which a tower of skulls was erected in the camp."

http://www.ropma.net/killing_by_behe...is_islamic.htm

W,

Note: It is quoting the relevant portions.
This is by a Moslem writer.
Syed Kamran Mirza

Syed_mirza@hotmail.com

Ray

YWF,

I didn't derail this thread. You did with that inane and juvenile comparison of democracy's index with minis and bikinis and being rude to others.

Obviously, you won't reply because you can't. I am quoting from the verses to prove my point.

You obviously cant fight the Quaran, can you?

Shek

That would be a special relationship for Islam in the role of government within a democratic framework. Not the same of theocracy, where the clergy rule (Al Sistani has specifically and frequently denounced this). As far as your point about deciding about the government, last time I checked, the constitution drafting committee was made up 100% of Iraqis, and there will be a constitutional referendum where the provinces can either vote the constitution up or down. So, that pretty much means that this is a 100% Iraqi show. Your point again?

Wraith601

You're apparently incapable of reading so I'll go slow and use small words for you.

1. Iraq's population is about 60% Shi'a, 22% Sunni and 18% Kurd if I recall.
2. Saddam and all of his cronies were either Sunni or from Sunni tribes from central Iraq.
3. Zarqawi and most of the forreign fighters are ALL Sunni extremists who adhere to a twisted and radical view of Wahabbism.
4. The insurgents from Point #2 seek to return Iraq to Ba'ath Party rule under the old Sunni tribal structure. The insurgents from Point #3 seek to forcibly establish a Sunni dominated Islamic dictatorship regardless of the wishes of the Iraqi people. The insurgents don't take votes, they seek to lead by violence and fear.
5. Saddam was hated by the Kurds and Shi'a, but had widespread support among the Sunni who were treated much better under ihs rule. Why do you think most insurgents attacks are concentrated in 4 provinces, all of which just so happen to predominantly Sunni.

Does that clear things up or do you need a picture book?

__________________
"We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be, detested in France."
-Sir Arthur Wellesley

667medic

Terrorist hindu tamil tigers are doing suicide attacks on sri lanka civilians...

This is a pile of PS. In case you dont know, the first suicide bomber for the LTTE was Captain Miller, who drove a truck bomb onto a army camp.

http://specials.rediff.com/news/2005/jul/06ltte.htm

Ray

LTTE is composed of Tamils and Tamils is community and it has all religions.

Anton Balasingham, their spokesman and Chief Negotiator, is a Christian and Pirubhakaran, who is their leader, is a Hindu.

667medic

Sir, is it true that LTTE have targetted Moslems in the past....

Ray

That is because the LTTE want East Sri Lanka, which has a Moslem majority, to be a part of the their territory.

The Moslem don't want that to happen.

Hence, the clash.