Ray

Shek,

The Shiites are playing it cool since it is the first and last chance they will get to take over the country from the Sunnis who have ruled always and mistreated them.

Shia - Sunni divide is as bad as the US - Iraq divide.

In fact, the split that took place in the Moslem community into Shias and Sunnis is over the ascendancy into Mohamet's shoe, and nothing but a power struggle

Y W F

Iran is majority SHIA not sunnis. First find out the strategic dimenions of the region before commenting.

Y W F

Ray, according to Islam (not culture) a Muslims first obligation is the country he is living in... be it USA or Saudia arabia. You need to study islam and its law from it's sources and not rely on forum jimmy boys to give you information about the fastest growing religion in the world(west). Just like, Bible and other christian authentic sources prohibit child molestation and killing of the innocent, islams authentic sources also prohibit suicide bombing and killing of the innocent and child molestation. These crimes are so bad that once you carry out these sins, you are NO longer considered muslims. Killing YOUR self is a BIG SIN let alone killing others.

As I said, there are alot of questions about the UK "bombers" and I am not going to get into that.

Shek

Wraith will have to confirm what he was trying to say, but if you look at the invertebrate Iraqi insurgency, one of the groups is the Sunni extremists who want a theocratic state a la Iran. Thus, his remarks IMO are wholly correct. However, the two theocratic states would be arch enemies, and Sunni extremists mix with Shia like oil and water.

Y W F

I understand that but the point I am trying to make is that there is no love between Iranian shias and Iraqi shias.

OTOH, if majority of the country wants to be governed by Islamic law, then we shouldn't have any problem with what "PEOPLE" want. I guess, that is all what is required from a democracy: For people to choose form of their government freely and openly. If we try to shove our version of democracy or western style democracy, of course no body is going to like it - religious extremist or the secular extremist alike. Western countries shoved dictators and anarchy on Saudis and rest of the middle east, look what is happening there. Now, we are desperately hoping that somehow those countries switch to our form of democracy so that this modern phenomemon of "islamic" extremism may end.

Anyhow, this topic was not intended to cover such wide variety of issues related to Iraq...

Amled

There’s a fallacy in what you say.
If the majority; say the Sunni and Shia, decide to turn Iraq into a theocratic dictatorship like in Iran, then the remainder of the population should abide by such a decree?
Algeria should tell that such an action would only lead to a long and bloody Civil War.

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When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

Confed999

Another tyrrany cannot be allowed to form. Everyone's rights must be taken into account.

__________________
No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

Shek

If they chose a theocracy, then it wouldn't be a democracy. However, it would be consistent with the thought to allow them the freedom to choose their form of government. Thankfully, only a small minority (4% in the last poll that I saw) want strict sharia law. However, approximately half of the population in the poll wanted Islam to play a "special role." So, they'll have a democracy, but it won't hold all the values that we do in the West.

I do have a question - why do the Iraqi Shia and Iranian Shia have no love for each other? I changed command prior to my company heading down south for several ops, so I never interacted with Shia outside of my translators that were Shia. However, your statement doesn't seem to click with what I've read.

Wraith601

I'm well aware of the demographics of Iraq. I'm also quite aware of the scism between Sunni and Shia Islam. I'm not the one who's misinformed in this discussion.

Saddam and his thugs were Sunni and yet the ruled Iraq for 30 years. You really think his former cronies are just gonna lay down and let theie arch enemies run the country? Zarqawi has been pretty open about his desire to create a religous dictatorship in Iraq, one that follows his perverted take on Islam.

In the future get your facts straight, you'll spare yourself some embarrasment.

__________________
"We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be, detested in France."
-Sir Arthur Wellesley

Y W F

No you are not aware with the demogrpahics of middle east.

Saddam was a secular dictator, equally hated by Sunnis and Shias inside iraq and around the world.

There is no love between religious fanatics of today and secular communists that ruled Iraq before the wars. I don't even want to mention which governments supported them...

As far as the issue with so called "theocracy" well, in an ELECTION PEOPLE choose and that is why it's called democracy. If MAJORITY of people are going to choose Islamic law as their form of government, who is anyone else to say it's not right?

Either stop bragging about democracy in Iraq or start supporting what PEOPLE OF THAT COUNTRY WANT and would choose in an election. If everyone in US who didn't vote for Bush had such extremist views then we wouldn't be living in peace today... everybody would be trying to shove John Terry down our throat and I bet you would have liked that just because Bush as a president is unacceptable to 49% of America.

Western style demoracy CANNOT work in an eastern style country that too an with majority Muslim population. West tried it with Iran, look what happened. It bounced back to the other extreme. Same type of "democracy" was offered to Suadis but they refused sighting Iranian example. I guess, as long as Muslim women don't walk in mini skirts and bikinis, it's not a demoracy by western standards. Sad.

Shek

YWF,
The last poll results I saw indicate that Iraqis do not want a theocracy. However, the poll was conducted in March. I was curious if you have more recent information that contradicts this. Thanks.

Shek

Y W F

Recent constitution draft which was released... Islamic law plays a large role in it if it's solely not based on it. But that is not the point, the point is: If people want it they should get it be it secularism or islamic law based society. It's Iraq's internal affair and people living in iraq should have a say in what form of government they want.

Ray

YWF,

Can you quote anywhere where it says so?

Usman on this forum has stated that Islam binds all and ubder alles (or words to that effect).

Dr Wazeed of the Al Khoea Foundation in BBC's Talking Point Programme on the London Bombing said that Islam comes first and the nation thereafter.

I live in a country which is supposed to be the second largest Moslem state in the world. I interact daily with them. I watch QTV. So, come again about my studying Islam. Unless you are madrassa trained Moslem, I don't think you should comment.

Ray

YWF,


BTW, Dr Wazeed also stated that in Islam there was no concept of a nation. All land belongs to Allah.

After the fall of the Caliphate, irrational shiekdoms were brought into Arab lands by the imperialist powers he said.

Ray

YWF,

Iqbal believes in this principal of “Ardo-lillah” so strongly, that he has no reservation in declaring a person Kafir, if he does not believe in this principle of land for Allah. He says:

Baatne al ardolillah zahar ast, Har ke yiin zahar na beenad kafir ast.

(Land belongs to Allah, its purpose and meaning is clear, whosoever does not

recognize it, is Kafir.)

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We believe that the earth belongs to Allah who gives it as an inheritance to whomever he wills of His servants. Therefore, it has been obligatory for us to promote this religion (Islam) so it would be an admonition to all mankind" - Imam Jamal Taleeb, The Imam of the London Muslim Mosque www.londonmosque.com

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Volume 9, Book 85, Number 77: Narrated Abu Huraira: Muhammad said "You (Jews) should know that THE EARTH BELONGS TO ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE and I want to expel you from this land (the Arabian Peninsula)"

Yes, Muslims have every right to say, "My house is mine and your house is mine too"!!!

I bear witness that “There is No Landlord but Allah and Muhammad is his Chief Tenant".

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles...putting_up.htm
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