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Old 01-13-2005, 16:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
Parihaka
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WMD Hunt Ends; Bush's Spin Goes On

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WMD Hunt Ends; Bush's Spin Goes On
01/13/2005 @ 11:43am
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When White House spokesman Scott McClellan opened up his daily press briefing yesterday, he said, "This will be the only question of the briefing." He was joking. But it turned out that the first question--a response to the news the Iraq Survey Group had ended its hunt for weapons of mass destruction after finding absolutely nothing--was practically the only question of the day. Here's that first query:

The fact that the Iraq Survey Group has now folded up its field operations, can you explain to us if there is any sense of embarrassment or lack of comfort about the fact that after two years of looking, these people found nothing that the President and others assured us they would find?

McClellan did the usual. He did not answer the query.

McClellan: I think the President already talked about this last October in response to the comprehensive report that was released by Charles Duelfer [the Iraq Survey Group chief] at that point. Charles Duelfer came to the White House in December; the President took that opportunity to thank him for all the work that he had done. The two discussed how Saddam Hussein's regime retained the intent and capability to produce weapons of mass destruction, and they also discussed how he was systematically gaming the system to undermine the sanctions that were in place, so that once those sanctions were eliminated -- which was something he was trying to do through the U.N. oil-for-food program -- then he could begin his weapons programs once again. And I think the President talked about the other issues back in October. Nothing has changed from that time period.

And nothing has changed in terms of the White House's response to the absence of WMDs. Bush refuses to address the consequences of having misled the nation and the world. Before the war, he stated that there was "no doubt" that Iraq was loaded to the gills with WMDs. It was Saddam Hussein's possession of these deadly weapons, Bush argued, that rendered him a "direct" threat that had to be neutralized immediately. Bush and his aides repeatedly asserted there was no if about Iraq's WMDs. The International Atomic Energy Agency reported it had found no evidence of a revived nuclear weapons program in Iraq, yet Bush and Dick Cheney insisted Hussein had reconstituted such a program. The UN's chief weapons inspector, Hans Blix, said he was concerned about the possibility that Iraq might have kept WMDs hidden from inspectors, but he also stated that discrepancies in Iraq's accounting of its previous WMD material did not mean that Iraq actually possessed such dangerous goods.

But the Bush gang said it knew better. Secretary of State Colin Powell made that now-infamous presentation to the UN; everything he declared as a fact turned out to be wrong. Bush left himself no wiggle room on the subject of Iraq and WMDs. He declared, "The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons, is rebuilding the facilities to make more, and according to the British government, could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes." Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld stated, "There's no debate in the world as to whether they have those weapons....We all know that. A trained ape knows that." (Paging that trained ape.) White House mouthpiece Ari Fleischer said, "The president of the United States and the secretary of defense would not assert as plainly and bluntly as they have that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction if it was not true, and if they did not have a solid basis for saying it."

Really? Well, it was not true. And how does the White House respond? When asked if Bush owes the public an explanation, McClellan only pointed to the commission Bush appointed to study intelligence related to WMDs. "What is important," he said, "is that we need to go back and look at what was wrong with much of the intelligence that we accumulated over a 12-year period and...and correct any flaws." But there is no indication that the commission, which is conducting its work largely in secret, is probing the Iraq case in detail. In any event, if the issue is intelligence flaws, why did Bush award a Medal of Freedom to George Tenet, who headed the CIA for much of this time?

Reporters would not let go of this issue. One asked, "what is the president's assessment of the damage to American credibility that might have been done by his very forceful case that there were weapons and his launching of a war on that basis?" McClellan replied, "Well, nothing has changed in terms of the president's view." Of course not. And then McClellan doled out the usual 9/11 boilerplate: "Remember, September 11th changed the equation about how we confront the threats that we face, and the president recognizes what his most important responsibility is, and that is to do everything in his power to protect the American people. And nothing has changed in terms of his views when it comes to Iraq, what he has previously stated and what you have previously heard. The president knows that by advancing freedom in a dangerous region, we are making the world a safer place."

But if Hussein had no WMDs, how much of a threat was he? Bush and McClellan--for obvious reasons--refuse to concede Bush hyped the threat to win popular support for the war. If Bush had argued before the war only that the United States needed to invade and occupy Iraq in order to promote freedom in the region because that would protect Americans at home, wouldn't the prewar debate have taken on a much different tone? And the war would have been a much tougher sell for Bush and his crew.

In the briefing, McClellan didn't budge. That's what he's paid to do--not yield an inch. A reporter asked,

When it comes to Iraq, North Korea, and the president--this president stands up and says, they've got weapons programs, they've got weapons of mass destruction, isn't it the case that there will be many people in the world who will say, how can we believe him? And how does he deal with that?

McClellan replied, "He's going to continue working with the international community to confront the threats that we face."

That didn't satisfy the White House reporters. The follow-up question:

Scott, this is an important political question that you're not really addressing squarely, which is, can this president or a future President go to a Tony Blair or a leader of Spain and say, we believe something is happening and you need to join us in a preemptive show of force? Has this experience not totally wiped out that possibility for political action in the future?

McClellan stuck to his non-responsive talking points: "We're working together in a number of areas to confront threats that the international community faces." And he added, "It's important that we act together to confront the threats that we face. And it's important that when we say something, that we follow through on what we say. That's why the President is also--." A reporter interrupted: "Even if the information is wrong?" McClellan ignored that and once again insisted that Hussein was "a very unique threat."
McClellan refused to blink. And the questions kept coming.

Secretary Rumsfeld said you go--infamously, he said, "You go to war with the Army that you have." Well, this administration went to war, when it went to war, based on information that proved to be incorrect. Does the president now regret the timing of this? Does he feel that the war effort and its aftermath and the post-immediate war conflict phase was undermined by that timetable and intelligence that was wrong?

McClellan answered, "Based on what we know today, the president would have taken the same action, because this is about protecting the American people.... We took action to confront a threat posed by Saddam Hussein." If Bush knew that Iraq had no WMDs whatsoever and had no WMD production capability at all--which is what we know today--he still would have launched an invasion of Iraq before sufficient levels of body armor and armored vehicles were available? Before a larger and more effective coalition was formed? This is--to use a technical term--nuts. If Iraq had no WMDs, there was no immediate threat to protect the American people from. If the aim was to bring freedom to the people of Iraq--who had been suffering for decades--there still was no reason to launch a war before the military was fully ready and before a larger coalition (perhaps with an Arab state or two) was established and before drawing up plans for handling the social, economic, political and security challenges of a post-invasion period. As the chief Army historian in charge of the invasion has noted, no such plans were drafted.

McClellan kept batting away questions related to the nonexistent WMDs, declining--on behalf of a president who often talks about responsibility--to take responsibility for having made false statements to grease the way to war.

Q. So if the information is wrong, is there no consequence?

McClellan: I'm sorry?

Q. If the information about WMDs is wrong, as we all agree now, is there no consequence?

The president's "focus," McClellan replied, "is on helping to support those in the region who want to move forward." In other words, yes, there are no consequences. After all, the Duelfer report came out before the election, it proved that Bush had misled the American people before the war, and Bush still won.

The lesson indeed is, it doesn't matter if Bush distorts the public discourse by making dramatically untrue proclamations. That is, it doesn't matter to the White House and its supporters. Even when Bush is caught, he and his team have a ready response: deny and ignore. Two days ago, Bush told the Washington Times that come 2040, Social Security "goes broke, flat bust." That is not an accurate statement. Come 2052, the system, according to conservative estimates, will be able to pay about three-quarters of the scheduled benefits. That's hardly "flat bust." And even though Bush is routinely corrected on this point by stories in the mainstream media, he continues to peddle this blatant disinformation.

No WMDs. No Social Security crisis. Reality does not reign in Bush's world. It's wrong that conservative columnist Armstrong Williams was paid by the administration to push pro-Bush propaganda. But what's far worse--and more dangerous--is that McClellan receives taxpayer dollars to promote and defend Bush's facts-free fantasies.
Where is that damned trained ape?
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Last edited by Parihaka : 01-13-2005 at 16:23 PM.
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Old 01-13-2005, 21:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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There was no way to know the WMDs had been destroyed or moved, without cooperation. There was none.

If you're under 40, there is a Social Security crisis.
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I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry
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Old 01-13-2005, 23:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by parihaka
Probably on the way to the moon, with a one-way ticket.
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:18 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Its kinda difficult to prove that the WMD's ever existed when efforts of biblical proportions have been made to debunk the notion they ever existed, not to mention that Saddam never fully co-operated when people actually took the threat seriously.

To some, WMD's were the only excuse to go into Iraq and even then they advocated sticking their heads in the sand, its only natural therefore for them to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Old 01-17-2005, 10:31 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Think about where we stand now.....we're planted in Afghanistan and Iraq, with Iran dead in the middle. Ah, what is it that I see?....maybe some effective closure on a slack agreement the EU made with Iran? Why not, we're already fighting Iranian insurgents? It's good to kill 2 birds with one stone, but 3 with the same shot?.....what do you think Smilin?
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Old 01-17-2005, 11:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Ostensible Reasons for Going to War in Iraq

President Bush has been emphatic, including in his State of the Union address, that the reasons for going to war with Iraq were to oust Saddam Hussein because:

· Iraq has weapons of mass destruction (WMD) which was a threat to the US.
· It would abate international terrorism and threat to the US since Saddam has ties with the Al Qaeda and WMD.
· ‘Liberating’ Iraq from Saddam would bring ‘Freedom and Democracy’ in Iraq and in the Middle East.

The unfolding of events, the internal debates in the US (both official and unofficial) and the various Senate hearings have indicated that the ostensible reasons articulated by Bush were, at best, suspect.

Eliminating WMD.

Bush touted ad infintum that war against Iraq would reduce, if not eliminate, the threat Iraq posed the US with its WMD. Bush’s faithful echo, Blair blared the same and conjured a more sinister scenario of 45 minutes to Doomsday!

This was totally out of synchromesh with the US attitude of the 80s when Iraq, in their war against Iran, employed chemical weapons in the 80s, based on US secret satellite pictures of Iranian military positions. Not once then did Rumsfeld and Cheney object to use of these weapons.

If indeed Iraq posed such a grave threat, logically Iraq should have been addressed before Afghanistan. If terrorism was a graver threat, then Afghanistan should have seen a logical conclusion. Troops availability being at a premium; penny packet employment was definitely not prudent.

The triumvirate of Iraq, North Korea and Iran were declared the ‘axes of evil’ in the US threat perspective. It was generally known that North Korea possessed adequate plutonium to produce one to two nuclear devices along with the capacity to manufacture several more. She also has a large chemical weapons stockpile and a formidable array of ballistic missiles. Therefore, North Korea was a greater threat to the US and US interests in East Asia.

Iran was also said to be in an advanced stage to enter the nuclear club, because of the connivance of the nuclear peddler, AQ Khan of Pakistan. Iran was near, but not totally there.

Of the three, North Korea appeared prima facie the most dangerous to US interests and her ‘war on terror’. Yet she only warranted a perfunctory note.

On the other hand, the real McCoy in this dangerous game was Pakistan. She qualified for both the threats – WMD and terrorism. Pakistan has several dozen nuclear warheads along with missiles and planes capable of delivering them hundreds of miles away. She also has chemical weapons. International terrorism took birth in Pakistan and was the fountainhead of the ‘Islamic terrorist machine’. The impact of her ‘terror factories’ was felt as far as Chechnya, Bosnia, Indonesia and as near as Kashmir. She was an acknowledged terror purveyor.

Thus, Pakistan met both the criteria – WMD and terrorism – to be the prime target instead of Iraq, even if the military principles of war were to be flouted! It had the added advantage of being contiguous to Afghanistan.
Iraq, in comparison to any of the ‘axes of evil’ or Pakistan, had no WMD or delivery system worth the name (at least the Inspectors could were unsure)
Therefore, the rationale for attacking Iraq appears dubious.

Combating Terrorism.

The US administration had vigorously propounded that a war on Iraq would debilitate the strike potential of international terrorism against the US. The convolutedly brazen rationale trotted out by the Administration to justify by proffering ‘facts’ that Saddam Hussein had connection with the AQ was debunked by the US Congress’ 9/11 Commission.

In fact, the opposite was true. The Wahabi AQ was inimical to Saddam since his government was secular in persuasion, in the sea of autocratic monarchies and obscurantist Islamic nations of the Middle East.

If indeed there was a terrorist connection, then it is odd that Reagan removed Iraq from the countries supporting terrorism list. In fact Rumsfeld, in December 1983, as a special representative of President Reagan, carried the happy tidings as also the provision of billions of dollars' worth of agricultural credits and other forms of assistance to Hussein.

This rationale that a war on Iraq would make international terrorism impotent was irrationally faulted since a ‘Christian’ invasion on a Moslem country would only foment it with greater vigour and not pacify the Wahabi Islamic fundamentalist marauders.

Freedom and Democracy.

The Quaran is not open to interpretation . This naturally moulds the mindset which is less prone to flexibility in thought. Therefore, the perception that in an Islamic Middle East, devoid of democracy from its inception, an instant ‘Freedom and Democracy’ would blossom because of the democracy evangelism US presence, was self deluding, bogus and bordering on a hoax.
It is a hoax because Cheney and Rumsfeld amongst others of the Bush administration had no problems with Saddam’s dictatorship in the 80s. Therefore, the flip in the US attitude did not belie the facts. It was more unbelievable because the US had even supplied secret satellite data on Iranian military positions (at a time when they were informed by a senior State Department official on Nov. 1, 1983 that the Iraqis were using chemical weapons against the Iranians "almost daily") and could use the data to pinpoint chemical weapons attacks on Iranian positions. Hence, the sudden volte-face that converted Iraq from an accepted US ally (which with impunity could use chemical weapons and mistreat its own citizens) to a debauch in the realm of ‘freedom and democracy’ appears extraordinary.
Therefore if in the 80s the Hussein dictatorship using chemical weapons against Iran or oppressing its own citizens was acceptable by the US, then there is no reason whatsoever to believe that the current leadership has a principled objection to dictatorial rule in Iraq. Hence, the sudden magical discovery that ‘freedom and democracy’ was direly needed in Iraq is a bit far fetched.

If “Freedom and Democracy’ was suddenly the polestar of US’ Middle East policy and it was charged with a hell fired zeal to spread ‘Freedom and Democracy’ in the Middle East, then the close relationship of the US with Stalinist dictator ruled post-Soviet Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan or with obscurantist monarchies which are equally dictator-like as Kuwait or Saudi Arabia, two of America's other close allies in the region, should have warranted a equally ‘regime change’ attention; more so, Saudi Arabia, the home of the Wahabi terrorist virus.

Now, lets lok at the flip side.


US Strategic Constraints

The collapse of the USSR left USA as the sole superpower.

The Grand Strategy was to extend this advantage (as the only superpower) as far into the future as feasible. The danger was that there were nations inimical to the USA and the apprehension was also there that the US ascendancy might not be in perpetuity, given certain countries harbouring ambitions of being alternate power centres. Therefore, it was essential to re-engineer the world political physiognomy in favour of the US.

The reality was that the defence budget would remain the same and in fact could diminish. After debate, it was the view that the gap between resources and strategy be resolved not by increasing resources but by short changing strategy. The option was either to prepare for the future by
retreating from the role as the essential defender of today’s global security order, or it could take care of current business but be unprepared for tomorrow’s threats and tomorrow’s battlefields.

The Cheney inspired Defence Policy Guidance of 1992 (DPG) became the bedrock of this strategy. This policy guidance aimed at ensuring US supremacy, preventing alternate power centres and shaping the world as per US interests and principles.

In essence it encompassed:

· Four Core Mission for the US military, namely:
Ø Defend the US homeland;
Ø Fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theatre wars;
Ø Perform the ‘constabulary’ role associated with shaping the security environment in critical regions;
Ø Transform the US Forces to exploit “revolution in military affairs”;


To carry out these core missions, the US had to:
· Maintain nuclear strategic superiority worldwide.
· Maintain a ‘Base Force’ (as visualised in the strategic requirement), which envisaged active duty increase strength of 1.4 million to 1.6 million.
· Configure the quick reaction capability, based on 21st Century strategic realties, by having permanent bases in Southeast Europe and Southeast Asia and changing naval deployment matrix responsive to US strategic concern in Eat Asia.
· Selective modernisation of US Forces, proceeding with the F-22 program while increasing purchases of lift, electronic support and other aircraft; expanding submarine and surface combatant fleets; purchasing Comanche helicopters and medium-weight ground vehicles for the Army, and the V-22 Osprey “tilt-rotor” aircraft for the Marine Corps.
· Cancelling “Roadblock’ Programmes (the Joint Strike Fighter, CVX aircraft carrier,
and Crusader howitzer system) since it would absorb exorbitant amounts without commensurate payoffs. The money save could accelerate military transformation.
· Develop and deploy Global Missile Defence that would protect the US, it allies as also assist in the global projection of the US power.
· Control The New “International Commons” Of Space And “Cyberspace,” and pave the way for the creation of a new military service – U.S. Space Forces – with the mission of space control.
· Capitalise on ‘Revolution in Military Affairs’ and ensure long term superiority of the US military by:
Ø Applying advanced technologies to maximise efficiency in current weaponry;
Ø Inject profound improvements in military capabilities; encourage competition between single services and jointmanship experiments.
· Achieving the goals through gradual increase in defence expenditure to a minimum level of 3.5 to 3.8 of the GDP (gross domestic product), adding $15 billion to $20 billion to the total annual defence spending.

.
Fulfilling the above alone would retain the dominance of the US in the long term; failing which it could pressure some strategic retreat. The current defence budget short-changed the long-term strategic dominance and US global leadership since it would force withdrawal from strategic areas and instead abdicate the gains in terms of both economic and strategic influence, to forces inimical to the US.

The keynote to US policy is a shift from containing the Soviet Union of the Cold War era to ‘expanding democratic zones of peace’.

The security paradigm has transmogrified from a single are of interest i.e. USSR to global threats that are strewn in penny packets around the world. The US no longer perceives regional assertion through US military interventions around the world as temporary and instead focuses on the inimical interests around the world holistically, since the current shortfalls of US power projection in terms of outdate equipment and military standing strength is being exploited by nations like China, North Korea, Iran, Syria et al; some of whom are going undeterred in acquiring nuclear capabilities and delivery reach that can threaten the US and its worldwide interests.

To this end, it has become essential for the USA to have bases in the areas of US interest so ready reaction to actions inimical to US interest. The invasion of Kuwait by Iraq before the Gulf War I indicated that US global presence was essential to ensure no dramatic drawdown in US strategic eminence leading to negative payoffs.

Another issue that is worth considering is:


Role Of Oil

Oil is stated to be the major criteria for the switch to Iraq in the ‘war on terror’. There is some credence. With the rapid advent of globalisation, the demand on oil has increased manifold. Thus, oil has assumed the importance as a potent weapon. The country that controls the oil controls the destiny of nations to a great degree.

The Caspian Oil

With the disintegration of the USSR, the Caspian area has become a focal point of global interest. This area is rich in oil as also is endowed with a huge untapped hydrocarbon reserve. Proven estimates peg it at more than 236 trillion cubic feet and as high as 200 billion barrels. Modern technology can increase production to about 4.5 million barrels a day equalling 500% increase in about 15 years, which would be 5% of the world production.

The obstacle for this immense resource is the transportation to world markets. It is landlocked and for US interests, the major conundrum is that this area is not ideally in the US sphere of interest and that the current infrastructure permits oil movement to areas of the erstwhile USSR i.e. to the North and West.

Notwithstanding, the Caspian Pipeline Consortium is to build the infrastructure for outflow from north Caspian to Novorossiysk, the Russia Black Sea port to further movement via tankers to world markets through the Bosporus. This will even out the imbalance and increase export capacity to some extent.
The Azerbaijan International Operating Company (a consortium of 11 foreign oil companies, including four American companies, Unocal, Amoco, Exxon and Pennzoil) has conceived two routes i.e. one pipeline moving north and crossing north Caucasus to Novorossiysk while the other would move across Georgia to a shipping terminal on the Black Sea. This would also extend westwards also south across Turkey to the Mediterranean port of Ceyhan.
Even if these plans fructify, it would still not meet the oil output visualised and would not be optimally engineered to feed the future markets. The European, Central Asia markets do not indicate spectacular growth in the near future, unlike the Asian market, which indicates a commercially exciting quantum jump. If the Asian requirement is not adequately met, it will automatically push oil prices up, leading to a turbulent world economy.

Therefore, the routes would be East towards China (fraught with risks) or South (through Afghanistan to the Gwadar port of Pakistan and Iraq). Iran can interdict the sea routres being a littoral state. Hence Iran is drawn into the US focus, apart from the ever growing threat of her nuclearisation.

Last edited by Ray : 01-17-2005 at 13:33 PM.
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Old 01-17-2005, 12:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The above is my first analysis and still way to go. It need not be correct since I have more reading to do.

Also read the Wolfowitch Doctrine. In tht lies much of the reason.
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Old 01-17-2005, 12:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Paul Wolfowitz, then-under secretary of defense for policy, supervised the drafting of a 1992 policy statement on America's mission in the post-Cold War era. Called the "Defense Planning Guidance," it is an internal set of military guidelines that typically is prepared every few years by the Defense Department. This policy guidance is distributed to military leaders and civilian Defense Department heads to provide them with a geopolitical framework for assessing their force level and bugetary needs. The 46-page classified document circulated for several weeks at senior levels in the Pentagon. But controversy erupted after it was leaked to The New York Times and The Washington Post and the White House ordered then-Defense Secretary Dick Cheney to rewrite it.


Key Points/Excerpts:· The number one objective of U.S. post-Cold War political and military strategy should be preventing the emergence of a rival superpower."Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power. These regions include Western Europe, East Asia, the territory of the former Soviet Union, and Southwest Asia."There are three additional aspects to this objective: First the U.S must show the leadership necessary to establish and protect a new order that holds the promise of convincing potential competitors that they need not aspire to a greater role or pursue a more aggressive posture to protect their legitimate interests. Second, in the non-defense areas, we must account sufficiently for the interests of the advanced industrial nations to discourage them from challenging our leadership or seeking to overturn the established political and economic order. Finally, we must maintain the mechanisms for deterring potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role." · Another major U.S. objective should be to safeguard U.S. interests and promote American values.According to the draft document, the U.S. should aim "to address sources of regional conflict and instability in such a way as to promote increasing respect for international law, limit international violence, and encourage the spread of democratic forms of government and open economic systems."The draft outlines several scenarios in which U.S. interests could be threatened by regional conflict: "access to vital raw materials, primarily Persian Gulf oil; proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, threats to U.S. citizens from terrorism or regional or local conflict, and threats to U.S. society from narcotics trafficking."The draft relies on seven scenarios in potential trouble spots to make its argument -- with the primary case studies being Iraq and North Korea. · If necessary, the United States must be prepared to take unilateral action. There is no mention in the draft document of taking collective action through the United Nations.The document states that coalitions "hold considerable promise for promoting collective action," but it also states the U.S. "should expect future coalitions to be ad hoc assemblies" formed to deal with a particular crisis and which may not outlive the resolution of the crisis.The document states that what is most important is "the sense that the world order is ultimately backed by the U.S." and that "the United States should be postured to act independently when collective action cannot be orchestrated" or in a crisis that calls for quick response.
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Old 01-17-2005, 16:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ray, this is superb, thankyou
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Old 01-18-2005, 05:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Yep,the US is looking out for number one....The biggest challenge is not reaching the top,it's staying there..
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Old 01-18-2005, 05:47 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Parihaka,

This is a paart of an article I am writing for a professional journal.

Since much is said, I thought I could share some of the research.

In fact, I would look forward to anyopne providing me links for and against, so that it is not partisan.
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Old 01-18-2005, 21:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray
that the ostensible reasons articulated by Bush were, at best, suspect.
They were the same reasons given by most of the world's intel agencies, they were the same reasons given by Kerry, Clinton, and a host of others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray
Bush touted ad infintum that war against Iraq would reduce, if not eliminate, the threat Iraq posed the US with its WMD.
It did that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray
Blair blared the same and conjured a more sinister scenario of 45 minutes to Doomsday!
Never happened, that was a British tabloid spin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray
This was totally out of synchromesh with the US attitude of the 80s when Iraq, in their war against Iran, employed chemical weapons in the 80s, based on US secret satellite pictures of Iranian military positions. Not once then did Rumsfeld and Cheney object to use of these weapons.
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is a fools game. "The friend of my enemy is my enemy" is allmost allways correct though, and I could now hardly care less about his friends. Even the ones still termed "allies".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray
If indeed Iraq posed such a grave threat, logically Iraq should have been addressed before Afghanistan.
Both, and many more, should have been dealt with decades ago.
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Originally Posted by Ray
Therefore, North Korea was a greater threat to the US and US interests in East Asia.
We can't do everything alone, and nobody else would have supported it. Korea should have never been done 1/2 assed in the first place, nor should Vietnam. Those people should not have been left to fend for themselves against the totalitarian regimes.
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Originally Posted by Ray
If indeed there was a terrorist connection, then it is odd that Reagan removed Iraq from the countries supporting terrorism list. In fact Rumsfeld, in December 1983, as a special representative of President Reagan, carried the happy tidings as also the provision of billions of dollars' worth of agricultural credits and other forms of assistance to Hussein.
That fools game again.
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Originally Posted by Ray
an instant ‘Freedom and Democracy’ would blossom because of the democracy evangelism US presence, was self deluding, bogus and bordering on a hoax.
I would have to see where anyone said there would be instant democracy. Before the war we were told 5-7 years just to get Iraq back on it's feet. It took the US decades to acheive a democratic tradition.
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Therefore, the flip in the US attitude did not belie the facts.
The flip in US attitude occured in the 90s, not in the GW Bush Presidency. The Iraqi liberation act of '98 was passed into law without Cheney or Rummy being there. Also, neither of those guys are allowed to have a problem with Iraq, or anywhere else, they implement policy from the President and Legislature.

I grow weary of these same debates, so you'll have to get my point from that much. The bottom line is, had Saddam cooperated with the UN as he was required too, it would not have been necessary to force the issue.
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Old 01-20-2005, 05:46 AM   #13 (permalink)
Ray
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Confed,

You have to bear with me.

I write as a pastime for professional magazines and hence maybe I have got immune to debates making me weary. To me more the debate, nore the info.

To me, it doesn't matter whether it is Bush's spin or not. My job is to find out relevant facts. My country nor I am directly involved in the Iraq War and Reconstruction (Chinese are and some Chinese have been taken hostage). Indian involvement are freelance drivers of trucks.

Whatever, I have written are obviously from open surces. Even the 45 minutes. That is not spin. Do look up Parliamentary proceedings.

I look at things from a military point of view and not from any politcal partisan outlook. I found going to Iraq without Afghanistan being complete as a deviation from the miitary principles of war (the ten commandant type of stuff for military planning). Therefore, my curiosity.

Then, the fact that the troops are running short and tenures extended also sends alarms in the military mind. So, militarily I am more curious as to why the US seems to have bitten more than it can chew.

Rebuilding America's Defences, the Defense Policy Guidance of Cheney (when he was the Secy of Defense) and Wolfowitz Doctrine makes some 'method in the madness'. From purely a US point of view, it sure makes a lot of sense.

I will now google Iraqi Liberation Act (see you have given me a lead)! And then check the connection.

Saddam is US' Frankenstein, like it or not. He had become too big for his boots. I don't grudge teh US supporting dictators (even if that may appear incongruous). The US has to do it to pursue her national interest. Obviously, whe would not pursue someone else's interest. So, no grudge (from a military point of view).

Do read 'rebuilding America's defense'
www.cryptome.org/rad.htm

It also contains aspect of the Defense Policy Guidance. It will be a great read.

Last edited by Ray : 01-20-2005 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 01-20-2005, 09:16 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I feel imposing sanctions are comparable to a program of "criminal rehabilitation." If the situation is to the extreme where a ruler has to be sanctioned, he is not fit to run a country. Period.
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Old 01-20-2005, 10:50 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Sanctions don't work in keeping with the spirit for which they are imposed

The top guys still have their perks. The common man takes the hit.
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