Shamus

[quote]Turkey Bombs Suspected Kurdish Rebels
Wednesday, October 10, 2007 11:53 AM EDT
The Associated Press
By SELCAN HACAOGLU Associated Press Writer

SIRNAK, Turkey (AP) — Turkish warplanes bombed positions of suspected Kurdish rebels Wednesday, and the prime minister said preparations for parliamentary approval of a military mission against separatist fighters in Iraq were under way.

A cross-border operation could hurt Turkey's relationship with the United States, which opposes Turkish intervention in northern Iraq, a region that has escaped the violence afflicting much of the rest of the country.

U.S. officials are already preoccupied with efforts to stabilize areas of Iraq outside the predominantly Kurdish northern region.

Turkey and the United States are NATO allies, but ties have also been tense over a U.S. congressional bill that would label the mass killings of Armenians by Turks around the time of World War I as genocide. President Bush strongly urged Congress to reject the bill, saying it would do "great harm" to U.S.-Turkish relations.

Turkish troops blocked rebel escape routes into Iraq while F-16 and F-14 warplanes and Cobra helicopters dropped bombs on possible hideouts, Dogan news agency reported. The military had dispatched tanks to the region to support the operation against the rebel Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, in response to more than a week of deadly attacks in southeastern Turkey.

Turkish authorities also detained 20 suspected Kurdish rebels at a border crossing with Iraq, the office for the governor of Sirnak said in a statement.

Dogan said the military had installed night vision cameras at strategic points to prevent any rebels fleeing at night. The agency said there was fog Wednesday morning in the Gabar and Cudi regions of Sirnak province, near the Iraq border, forcing warplanes to fly low.

The military activity followed attacks by PKK rebels that killed 15 soldiers since Sunday and prompted Turkey's government to push for a possible cross-border offensive against separatist bases in Iraq. Turkish Kurd rebels have been fighting for autonomy in southeast Turkey since 1984 in a conflict that has claimed tens of thousands of lives.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said preparations for a parliamentary authorization for a cross-border mission were under way, but did not say when the motion would reach the floor. The preparations "have started and are continuing," he said.

A member of the governing Justice and Development Party said a request for parliamentary approval for a cross-border ground offensive was unlikely to come to the floor before the end of a four-day religious holiday on Sunday. He asked not to be named because he was not authorized to speak to reporters.

Turkish troops targeting the guerrillas' suspected escape routes in mountainous areas in Sirnak province have "squeezed" a group of about 80 rebels on Mount Gabar, in Sirnak, the Hurriyet newspaper reported. Escape routes were being bombed by helicopter gunships while transport helicopters were airlifting special commando units to strategic points.

Turkish troops were also shelling suspected PKK camps in the regions of Kanimasa, Nazdur and Sinath, in northern Iraq, from positions in Turkey's Hakkari province, just across the border, Hurriyet reported. Tanks were positioned near the town of Silopi, in Sirnak province, the paper said.

At least one artillery unit was seen positioned on the Turkish side of the border, across from the Iraqi Kurdish town of Zakho, with guns facing toward Iraq.

The paper said the government would impose an information blackout on its preparations for a possible cross-border offensive.

On Wednesday, an opposition nationalist party that has long been advocating an incursion into Iraq called on the government to swiftly take the motion to parliament and said it would back it.

If parliament approves, the military could choose to immediately launch an operation or wait to see if the United States and its allies, jolted by the Turkish action, decide to crack down on the rebels.

Turkey conducted two dozen large-scale incursions into Iraq between the late 1980s and 1997. The last such operation, in 1997, involved tens of thousands of troops and government-paid village guards.

Other punitive measure at Turkey's disposal including cutting electricity supplies and closing the border with Iraq.[Quote/]

It appears that this would be a definite setback to attempts to keep this portion of the region stable.Thoughts,opinions?

__________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but
it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

S-2

"A cross-border operation could hurt Turkey's relationship with the United States, which opposes Turkish intervention in northern Iraq, a region that has escaped the violence afflicting much of the rest of the country.

U.S. officials are already preoccupied with efforts to stabilize areas of Iraq outside the predominantly Kurdish northern region."

A cross-border operation may be necessary to remind the Kurds of the value in playing nice-nice. Such a raid would bring a healthy re-inforcement to the Kurds of the importance of a stabilized and secure Iraq with Uncle Sam's protection. Or, conversely, what life might portend in our absence.

Kurds are not "home free" by a long shot. It's vitally important that the KRG recognize it's primacy must not be endangered by trans-national Kurdish-inspired terror movements and assist both the Americans and Turks to this end.

Vitally important as we never know what the future holds.

__________________
"This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski

-{SpoonmaN}-

[quote=Shamus;414954]Nah, not F-14s. F-4s maybe. I love it when the press f--k things like this up.

__________________
"I have this to say to the people of Australia: Kick me, I'm different."

Big K

"Turkish Kurd rebels have been fighting for autonomy in southeast Turkey."

i am not agree with this...

when you wright like this it sounds that Kurdish people wants it....but,

first it is not "Kurdish Rebels" it is PKK which is a terrorist organisation known by all over the world...

secondly it is killing Kurdish people too (even maybe they have killed more Kurds than other ethnicities)

thirdly it can be a trap for TAF....

their goal is not an autonomy...if it is so they already gained some of this by entering in the parliament...

__________________
When i say, there will be no effect but i am not willing to remain silent.
-Fuzuli

Big K

agreed...

Shamus

What do you mean by a trap Big K?A strategic or tactical physical trap,or a political,public relations trap?Or possibly both?

Shamus

S-2,do you think this is an on-going attempt by the PPK to draw Turkish troops across the border and involve U.S. forces?

cato

Shamus,
It is absolutely the case that bad, bad things could easily happen to the Turks if they attempt to persue that PKK into them thar hills. While the Turkish Army does have some air-mobility options available to them, the majority of the force would, by necessity be mech infantry. Dicey stuff, trying to bring that into the mountains. I'm seeing permutations of L.Z. Albany and Groupe Mobile 100, rather than a resounding Turkish success .How long would this incursion last? Fighting tough as nails PKK guerillas on their own turf, backed by an aroused local populace (on both sides of the border BTW) , in complex terrain, with winter coming on seems foolhardy.

I sympathise with the Turks, but the notion that a cross-border incursion is going to solve the problem of the PKK is not realistic. It is simply gonna kill a mess of Turkish soldiers, and a grip of Kurdish (nee Iraqi!) civillians. That being said, S-2 is correct in that this is a useful reminder to the KRG that they do not posess carte blance to wage their own personal war against the Turks.

Cato

Shamus

Thanks cato

neyzen

Results of cross-boarder operation (according to a Turkish newspaper)

5 October - 15 November 1992

1551 death, 1232 alive 2883 PKK members paralysed... 1 officer, 3 noncommissioned officer, 22 soldier and 2 village guard lost

.... 1994....1997... again 1997...

Total:

5701 death, 1697 alive 7398 PKK members paralysed; 22 officer, 12 noncommissioned officer, 176 soldier and 27 village guard lost (237)

source: "Sınır Ötesi Savaşın Kurmay Günlüğü" Sayı Öztürk

cato

Nyazen,
Nobody doubts the Turkish Army's courage or proficiency, but it isn't 1997. The KRG has a well trained army that has seen action (as part of the Iraqi Army) against some of the toughest, meanest, bastards that have ever found themselves on the other side of an M16. Granted the KRG's forces aren't PKK, but that distinction will quickly become blurred when Turkish troops roll through the first Kurdish village, and the first Kurdish civillians are killed in airstrikes. Expect to fight not just the PKK, but well equiped and trained conventional forces that have more recent experience in high intensity conflict than the Turkish Army. Friend, you're sticking your d!ck into a hornet's nest, and the farther the Turkish Army pushes into those mountains, the greater the chance of your d!ck getting not just stung, but cut off entirely. As I said earlier, refer to the U.S. experience at L.Z. Albany, and the travails of French Groupe Mobile 100 (Battle of Mang Yang Pass) to see what can go wrong when fighting a determined, but technologically inferior enemy in complex terrain.

If the Turkish Army has reliable intelligence, I'm sure some kind of arrangement could be worked out with the Iraqi govt. to discreetly (but not too discreetly) use the very capable Turkish para-commando units to eliminate the terrorist infrastructure. Believe it or not, but the U.S. military isn't exactly thrilled to be babysitting an international terrorist group. That being said, pushing 12-15 brigades of conventional forces into Northern Iraq will end in Turkish heartbreak, and leave the problem infalmed, rather than resolved. As I said, it isn't 1997 anymore.

Cato

S-2

"S-2,do you think this is an on-going attempt by the PPK to draw Turkish troops across the border and involve U.S. forces?"

Walter,

I think we're turnin' a blind eye. Maybe even a few times. This issue ceases the day that the Peshmerga seriously take the fight to the PKK. Without Iraqi sanctuary, the PKK is dead meat.

RepublicanGuard

Kansas Bear

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — Turkey said dozens of its warplanes bombed Kurdish rebel targets as deep as 60 miles inside northern Iraq for three hours Sunday, the largest aerial attack in years against the outlawed separatist group. Turkey's military chief said the U.S. gave intelligence and tacit approval for the raid.
An Iraqi official said the planes attacked several villages, killing one woman. The rebels said two civilians and five rebels were killed.

In the nighttime offensive, the fighter jets hit rebel positions close to the border with Turkey and in the Qandil mountains, which straddle the Iraq-Iran border, the Turkish military said in a statement posted on its website. It said the operation was directed against the rebels and not against the local population.

As many as 50 fighter jets were involved in the airstrikes, private NTV television and other media reported. Turkey has recently attacked the area with ground-based artillery and helicopters and there have been some unconfirmed reports of airstrikes by warplanes.

The attack came a month after the United States promised to share intelligence with Turkey about the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) and Turkey's military chief, Gen. Yasar Buyukanit, said U.S. intelligence was used.

"America gave intelligence," Kanal D television quoted Buyukanit as saying. "But more importantly, America last night opened (the Iraqi) airspace to us. By opening the airspace, America gave its approval to this operation," he said.

"Even if it's winter, even if there's snow, even if they live in caves, we'll find them and hit them," he added, according to the report. "These operations will continue all the time."

Journalists were barred from entering the stricken areas, but some managed to sneak into the small village of Qlatooka, in Qandil, where bombs had destroyed a school and some homes.

Mukhlis Khadar, 44, said he and his family were woken by the raids and fled their home as soon as the school was hit.

"We left an unbelievable scene behind us," Khadar said. "When we climbed the rocks of the nearby mountain ... we saw flames of fire burning our village. ... Our house disappeared."

Saoqo Mohammad, a 30-year-old woman said: "We are civilians, with no arms or any relation to the PKK, why do they allow such horrible acts against civilians?"

Jamal Abdullah, a spokesman for the regional government of Iraqi Kurdistan, told AP Television News: "We call on the Turkish army to differentiate between the PKK and the ordinary people. We don't want the conflict between the Turkish troops and the PKK to turn into a conflict between the Turkish forces and the people of Kurdistan."

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan lauded the operation and suggested Turkey could stage more attacks on PKK hide-outs in northern Iraq.

"This operation, which was carried out under night conditions, was a success," Erdogan said Sunday. "Our struggle (against the PKK) will continue inside and outside Turkey with the same determination."

The pro-Kurdish news agency Firat, citing the PKK, said two civilians and five PKK rebels were killed. The airstrikes destroyed two schools and a hospital, it said, adding that the hospital had been vacated in anticipation of a Turkish attack.

The Kurdish rebels also said they responded to Turkish raids with anti-aircraft artillery units, Firat reported.

In Iraq, Mohammad Hajj Hammoud, a Foreign Ministry undersecretary, summoned the Turkish ambassador in Baghdad and asked that Ankara end raids "that cause harm to innocent people and affect friendly bilateral relations," the ministry said on its website.

The ministry said the raids killed one woman, injured four people and displaced several families.

The PKK has been fighting for autonomy in the predominantly Kurdish southeast for more than two decades. There has been intense public pressure on the Turkish government to attack rebel bases across the border as rebel attacks have increased in recent months.

Turkey has massed tens of thousands of troops along its border with northern Iraq in response to a series of attacks by the PKK rebels. In October, parliament voted in favor of authorizing the government to order a cross-border operation against the group.

Turkish forces have periodically shelled across the Iraqi border, and have sometimes carried out "hot pursuits" — limited raids on the Iraqi side that sometimes last only a few hours.

The United States and Iraq have, however, called on Turkey to avoid a major operation, fearing such an offensive could disrupt one of the most tranquil regions in Iraq.

Harsh winter conditions in the rugged terrain of northern Iraq reduce the possibility of a large-scale ground offensive, making more airstrikes against the PKK likelier than attacks using tanks or helicopters. Limited and precise air raids are also less likely to hurt Turkey's alliance with the U.S. and Europe or to affect global oil prices than a protracted land battle.

Turkish news reports said a PKK command center in Qandil was hit.

The mountain is a base for the PKK's leadership council and the group has a network of camps around the mountain. But news reports in the past weeks have suggested that PKK fighters may have dispersed from camps in northern Iraq, worried about a possible attack from Turkey.

Abdullah Ibrahim, a senior official in the Iraqi administrative center of Sangasar, said Turkish warplanes bombarded 10 Kurdish villages, killing one woman and injuring two others. He acknowledged that there were Kurdish rebel bases in the area, but said they were far from the villages that were hit.

"The villagers are now scared and are hiding in nearby caves. They lost all their properties," Ibrahim said.


Turkey bombs Kurds in Iraq, claim U.S. OK - USATODAY.com

S-2

I move that this article be placed under Shamus' thread of the same.

Housekeeping and tidiness are important, don't you agree?