Thiseas

"even if you wished to do so" you're playing with words again.
unless my bad english, are so bad indeed.
During ww2 in greece, germans where killed by dozens as well. WE wanted them out of our country you see.
This doesn't mean greek partizans where terrorists!!
Simple Logic

Thiseas

Greek peoPle give refuge to women and children that come with ships everyday over the Aegean, to avoid the war going in their country.
They're so exhusted and poor that i can't discribe.They come from turkey off course and that's a situation your country has brought them to.
The only way we could use to avoid the karavans of kurds coming to greece is to sink their boats.WE are not that kind of people.
And rememper, back in 1922 it was the kurds that helped you slaughter our brothers in Ionia and Armenia and Pontos.After you promised them our territories. What an irony eeh?
Christian Genocide

Officer of Engineers

You mind knocking that chip off your shoulders?

__________________
Chimo

Big K

please LOOK AT THE TITLE OF THIS PHOTO...

"http://members.fortunecity.com/fstav1/pontos/29_19maiou.jpg"

"Turks celebrate the day of Pontian genocide" celebrating??....

this is a districts name plate...

19 May is the day that Mustafa Kemal started The Turkish War of Independence...

i am ignoring you from now on...

__________________
When i say, there will be no effect but i am not willing to remain silent.
-Fuzuli

S-2

Thanks for the articles. Incendiary to some, eh?

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"This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski

S-2

Kurdistan Region's Foreign Policy Explained

Turkish readers be forewarned- the above linked article is a press release from the KRG on their unofficially official website.

Please note-

"Our [KRG] foreign relations cannot be independent, we must work to harmonise our activities with Baghdad. For us, there is no realistic alternative. We must understand and accept that our best course is to move ahead as part of a federal, democratic and pluralistic Iraq.”

Falah Mustafa Bakir, December 6, 2007.

I consider the remarks by Jamal Abdullah and Ali al-Dabbagh in Kansas Bear's latest AP article as interestingly mild rebukes to this incursion. They reflect both Iraq's fundamental inability to secure it's own borders and Turkey's local military dominance.

Personally, I question the military effectiveness of these raids. However, if Ucar indicates valid targets identified and confirmed by their electronic signature then, clearly, there's some utility to these attacks.

My understanding of the area is that there's a traditional slowdown of PKK cross-border attacks at this time of the year because of weather. The snows deepen. Movement is hard. The cover disappears. Concealment is difficult. I assumed that most PKK forces take the winter off, more or less-retreating into the safety and warmth of the larger towns and cities across Kurdistan. In doing so, they further diffuse effective targeting by dispersing their organization IAW seasonal change.

Traditionally this has been the case in Afghanistan. This year, however, ISAF officers are reporting solid contacts with Taliban who appear intent on remaining and engaging allied/ANA forces. They evidently haven't returned to Pakistan. The reasons as yet are unknown. An altogether different war, yet a change to what's been an accustomed pattern of operations.

Is there any reason to believe that NOW is the best time militarily to attack PKK facilities/installations, given similar seasonal operational patterns along the Kurd-Turkish border? Have PKK forces, in spite of clear warning and overwhelming Turkish strength and facing worsening weather, stepped up or continued their summer-fall terror campaign? In short, just how target-rich is an environment of this size containing a terror-guerrilla organization of some 2,000-2,500 fighters (by U.S. estimates)?

Conversely, is there any reason to not believe that now represents the best political environment for Turkey to demonstrate it's intent, purpose, and resolve?

Does the border remain open? Bet it is.

I remain committed to believing that Turkey is best served by HELPING Iraq. Is this helpful?

What remains MOST interesting to me is contemplating a post-PKK existence along the Turkish-Kurd border. Why? Were I Kurdish, I'd be eager to remove the impediment of the PKK just to uncover what lies underneath for Turkey. Is there more?

S-2

U.S. Not Alerted By Turkish Forces

Although a coordination center has been established in Ankara involving U.S., Iraqi, and Turkish military personnel to share information about intelligence and operations, U.S. military officials in Iraq were apparently unaware of an impending airstrike on PKK targets within Iraq until Turkish aircraft had already passed into Iraqi airspace.

Evidently, "hot pursuit" involving multiple strike sorties by Turkish forces didn't leave time for adequate (any?) notification.

Very unhelpful and intended as such, it might seem. This isn't an unreasonable assessment in light of recent events. I can only hope that Abdullah Gul has appeased Turkish pride, assuaged his political advisors and can now get down to the business of properly coordinating these missions for best military effect.

Ucar

Sir

I had earlier asked you a specific question which you may see above. Not surprisingly you chose to distort the issue to discuss about the physical conditions of refugees coming into Greece via the Aegean Sea.

Greece has harbored the leader of a globally recognized terrorist organization in its embassy in Kenya. The lands of an embassy are regarded under international law, as part of the territory of the parent state. Abdullah Ocalan was captured in a cooperative operation of Turkish and CIA teams after he left the Greek embassy. These are facts, not propoganda, and as such they are not to be disputed. Greece has harbored the leader of a globally recognized terrorist organization on its land !

I think it is only sad to see that a Greek citizen has anything at all to say about Turkey's operations against terrorist organization camps and infrastructure -all of which are legitimate military targets- when his/her own country and politicians offered shelter to that terrorist organizations leader.

Not only sad; I find it insulting.

I will repeat myself once again for you, since it is appearant you missed it in the first reading.

Ucar

The footages that were released, and the General Staff announcement underline the following :

1 - SIGINT data received from US sources in the area has indicated top leaders of PKK were present in camps. Therefore a nighttime strike was planned. The first strike package targeted 4 primary camps, of which 3 are used as a jumping point for incursions into Turkey, and 1 used as a winter base. The targets in the first strike package were bunkers, barracks, general infrastructure, training facilities, and various soft targets including storage areas.

2 - 2 days ago Turkey hit another 4 camps again in Northern Iraq. These were again semi-permenant establishments used for incursions into Turkey in the spring-fall period. Comms facilities were exclusively targeted in one of the camps, and general infrastructure in the other 3.

3 - Heavy use of LGB units was made. This is a first for Turkey, since under normal circumstances, dumb munitions are preferred because of cost concerns. Therefore, selective targeting and pinpoint strikes were preferred instead of a scorched earth policy. This stressed Turkish claims that civilians were not targeted.

Clearly, Turkey is trying to create a physically inhospitable environment in N.Iraq for PKK to harbor itself. Targeting infrastructure is something that has hurt PKK a lot in the past. We had done this twice in the past, with good effects.

Exactly. This has been a problem in the past when we conducted cross-border operations. PKK has chosen to stay and fight twice with disastrous outcome to them, and from 1996-1997 onwards, it is getting increasingly hard to striker PKK targets with pinpoint precision.

Militarily, the reason to attack now, is to demolish the infrsatructure of PKK camps in N.Iraq in order to disrupt their movements in Spring-Fall period.

Politically, both internat politics pressure, and international conjencture make this a suitable time for operations against PKK. US has given its consent to limited operations -albeit reluctantly- and domestic politics make it a necessity for armed forces to show some effect in the region.

I concur in your judgement that Turkey's interest are best served by coopearting and supporting Iraqi people. However, Turkey is expecting to see some concrete actions before doing so.

Ucar

The "hot pursuit" mentioned in the article is very questionable. I believe the article tells a mix of what is and what is not. Turkey has conducted two strikes against PKK camps. They are clearly not hot pursuit operations. Here I believe the article is misleading.

On the other hand, it may be true that Turkish Armed Forced did not provide US forces with enough time. I am sure this will improve in the future.

Barish

Right. Genocide this, genocide that... Boring.

Excuse me? Are you talking about the guys who almost wiped out the population of an entire continent and bring some millions from another as slaves?

Sure, sure. Everybody is conspiring against mighty Greece. There's no way that Turks could win otherwise.

No, Kurds were originally living in Iran. When Alp Arslan, a Turkish leader, defeated Byzantines at Manzikert, he allowed Kurds to move deeper into Anatolia.

Kansas Bear

That was the Dutch, Portuguese and Spanish. There were African slaves in the Western hemisphere long before the English colonies revolted.