xerxes

Mr Shek, do you think the American people would be convince of Iran's barbarism if an event like the following can be arranged ...

Yahoo! Video

I would like to read your opinion, Highsea's opinion and Mr Moderator opinion about this fabrication ...

__________________
If we contrast the rapid progress of this mischievous discovery of gunpowder with the slow and laborious advances of reason, science, and the arts of peace, a philosopher, according to his temper, will laugh or weep at the folly of mankind. - Edward Gibbon

Shek

Xerxes,

Americans on average are not well informed about world events. They are too busy leading their own lives, taking the kids to soccer, etc., to dig deeper than the evening news on world events unless it has a direct impact on them or their family. Thus, in the case of Iran, it wouldn't be too difficult to create news about Iran that some would believe because of the enclosed nature of the regime as well as the complexity of Islam.

That being said, many news reports and opinion pieces that I've seen on the news and in the paper has focused on two Irans - the face through Ahmadinijead and the pro-democracy/upscale face that can also be found living side by side with the more sinister side. So, I think it might be difficult to spin a story as such on the average America, and it would require constant attention.

__________________
"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

Shek

New York Times
February 26, 2007
Pg. 1

U.S. Says Raid In Iraq Supports Claim On Iran

By James Glanz and Richard A. Oppel Jr.

BAGHDAD, Feb. 25 — A raid on a Shiite weapons cache in the southern city of Hilla one week ago is providing what American officials call the best evidence yet that the deadliest roadside bombs in Iraq are manufactured in Iran, but critics contend that the forensic case remains circumstantial and inferential.

The new evidence includes infrared sensors, electronic triggering devices and information about plastic explosives used in bombs that the Americans say lead back to Iran. The explosive material, triggering devices, other components and the method of assembly all produce weapons with an Iranian signature that has never been found outside Iraq or southern Lebanon, where Hezbollah is believed to have used weapons supplied by Iran, the Americans say.

But critics assert that nearly all the bomb components could have been produced in Iraq or somewhere else in the region. Even if the evidence were to establish that Iran is the source, they add, that does not necessarily mean that the Iranian leadership is responsible.

The raid by American and Iraqi forces discovered a fake boulder made of polyurethane and containing three of the deadliest kind of roadside bombs in Iraq. Smeared with dirt and pebbles to give it the color and texture of a rock, the polyurethane blob was resting in the back seat of a Toyota, apparently in preparation for a roadside attack, American officials said in lengthy briefings with two New York Times reporters last week.

The Toyota, along with a second vehicle and a nearby house described as an assembly point, contained components and other weaponry that the officials say demonstrate that the bomb parts must have originated in Iran. Called explosively formed penetrators, or E.F.P.’s, bombs like the ones hidden inside the fake boulder are designed to eject molten slugs that slice through American armor with deadly precision.

The assertion that the latest find greatly bolsters the theory of the Iranian origin of the E.F.P.’s is significant because it could provide the United States with a new justification to take action against Iran. But the evidence is unlikely to satisfy skeptics who have been suspicious that the Bush administration is trying to lay the groundwork for isolating or even attacking Iran. They point to the flawed intelligence used by the administration to accuse Saddam Hussein of harboring unconventional weapons before invading Iraq nearly four years ago.

Still, American military officials appear to be making an attempt to respond to critics who say the evidence is inconclusive. In the course of the detailed briefing on the Hilla discovery, Maj. Marty Weber, an explosives expert, said that most of the E.F.P.’s in Iraq use C-4 plastic explosive manufactured in Iran. At the request of the Bush administration, The Times is withholding some specific details about the weapons to protect intelligence sources and methods.

In addition to the Hilla discovery, military officials are expected to disclose at a briefing on Monday details about materials found in a raid in Diyala Province, the mixed Sunni-Shiite battleground north of Baghdad, that, according to one military official, included enough components to make more than 100 E.F.P.’s. The official asked not to be identified because the matter is so sensitive.

All of the items found in the Hilla raid have been used by Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, said Major Weber, a master explosives ordnance technician who has studied many kinds of improvised bombs in the Middle East and elsewhere and is closely involved in the effort in Iraq.

In addition, the shallow concave caps, which are made of copper and change into armor-piercing balls when the E.F.P.’s explode, were smooth and flawless, indicating to the explosives expert that they were manufactured in Iran because of the high precision required to make them so. Also found during the raid were 10 107-millimeter Strella rockets that had Iranian markings.

A Question of Technology

The most specialized part of the E.F.P.’s that were found is the concave copper disc, called a liner, that rolls into a deadly armor-piercing ball when the device explodes. Although American explosives experts say that the liner is deceptively difficult to make properly, the discs in Hilla look like a thick little alms plate or even a souvenir ashtray minus the indentations for holding cigarettes.

The electronics package is built around everyday items like the motion sensors used in garage-door openers and outdoor security systems; in fact, at the heart of some of the bombs found in Iraq is a type of infrared sensor commonly sold at electronic stores like RadioShack.

Major Weber said the use of precision copper discs combined with passive infrared sensors amounted to “a no-brainer” that the explosive components were of Iranian origin, because no one has used that sort of configuration except Iranian-backed Shiite militias.

Could copper discs be manufactured with the required precision in Iraq? “You can never be certain,” Major Weber said. But he said that “having studied all these groups, I’ve only seen E.F.P.’s used in two areas of the world: The Levant and here,” meaning in Hezbollah areas of Lebanon and in Iraq. Hezbollah is thought to be armed and trained by Iran.

Skeptics say the new details do not support a conclusion that only Iran could be providing the components. “Iran may well be involved in the supply of these weapons, but so far they haven’t proved it,” said Joseph Cirincione, senior vice president for National Security at the Center for American Progress, a liberal research and advocacy organization.

“Before we act on the assumption that these are Iranian we’ve got to rule out all these other possibilities,” he said. “The military hasn’t done that.”

He noted that a related weapon, the shape charge, “has been around for decades.

“This is not new stuff,” he continued. “There is a vast international arms market selling shape charges from many countries.”

New Details

The new information is more substantial than the limited details disclosed earlier this month in Baghdad, said John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, a research group based in Alexandria, Va.

“That initial briefing was not much to write home about,” Mr. Pike said. “The points that they are making here are rather more convincing. Whether they’re true is a completely different question.”

Mr. Pike said he was not swayed by arguments that the copper discs could only be made by equipment in Iran. All that is required are machine tools, he said. “You can buy them,” he said. “I mean, look at all those cylinders people use for L.P.G. cooking gas. Do you think they are all imported from Iran? Probably not. I bet there are guys all over Iraq who make those things for a living.”

But he found other details more persuasive. “The two points they are making about the tradecraft of the fuse and the wrappings of the explosives, those are pretty good pieces of evidence,” he said. “I will say that, totally apart from any of this evidence, I would be astonished if Iran was not providing military support to the Shia militias. It should be self-evident that they are doing that.”

Afternoon Attack

American officials gave this account of the Hilla raid:

It took place at 1:30 p.m. on Feb. 17 after an informant reported seeing a tow truck carrying rockets.

The fake rock with three E.F.P. canisters inside was sitting on the back seat of a different vehicle, a Toyota Crown. The trunk of the same car contained various equipment including an infrared sensor, a G.P.S. unit, two compasses and a jug filled with an unknown explosive.

Tools and materials for making fake rocks were found inside the house along with a partly completed rock and two E.F.P.’s. Among the items found there were seven battery packs needed to set off the blasting caps that initiate the E.F.P. explosion, four cans of epoxy foam and three of the infrared sensors.

The E.F.P.’s were designed to inflict maximum damage. The positioning of the sensor and the exact angles of the E.F.P.’s inside the rock were fixed to find weak points in American armored vehicles like Humvees and Strykers.

“The E.F.P. canisters are typically arrayed at angles to minimize the effects of countermeasures,” Major Weber said. “They want to hit the truck when it is already well into the kill zone.”

The infrared sensors could be armed and disarmed at a distance with cellphones, long-distance cordless phones or radios. That allows the attackers to arm the devices only when convoys are approaching. Then, when the convoys trip the sensors, the E.F.P.’s explode.

Major Weber said many of those techniques were clearly Iranian in origin. Critics said that all of them could be replicated by skilled Iraqis or others in the Middle East with a solid knowledge of electronics and basic manufacturing techniques.

Still, Major Weber said, there were other indications of Iranian involvement in Hilla. In the raid, the Iraqi and American troops also found a red 1988 Chevy tow truck carrying 10 Strella rockets under a false bottom in the bed. The rockets had MJ-1 contact fuses and were probably made in China and repainted with Iranian markings — the usual practice for weapons that Iran imports and re-sells. Following international convention, the markings were in English, not Persian. They indicated that the rockets had been made in 2005 and each carried 18 kilograms of explosive.

As to why the Iranians would leave such obvious markings on the shells, Major Weber speculated that they had simply been taken out of stock and shipped across the border.

Comparisons to Others

Major Weber said he doubted that Hezbollah — the group that the Mahdi militia leader Moktada al-Sadr has used as a model for his political movement — would have provided the material and technology to the Mahdi militia or to other Shiite fighters in Iraq. “It is possible, but based upon my experience we have not seen Hezbollah share information or technology on anything until they have been told to,” he said.

“The E.F.P. is their silver bullet,” he said, referring to Iran and its allied militias.

Major Weber also said that the use of passive infrared sensors, or P.I.R.’s, was one of the strongest markers of Iranian involvement, based on years of experience indicating that only Iranian-backed groups employ the sensors in that manner. But he also acknowledged that the electronic components needed to make the sensors were easily available off the shelf at places like RadioShack.

Those components are used in commercial products, like motion sensors for a lighting system or garage door openers. Those products are opened up, rewired and repackaged. Sometimes on products requiring the triggering of multiple beams to close the circuit, masking tape is used to cover up some beams so that only one is triggered.

“Every P.I.R. in Iraq has been RadioShack, Digigard or Everspring,” Major Weber said. “But in southern Lebanon I never saw them use RadioShack.”

While he maintained that the copper liner also required specialized equipment and skills to make properly, that assertion also rests on some rather subtle distinctions. A senior military official displayed pictures of a stack of some 30 copper E.F.P. liners seized in a raid in Mahmudiya, a town south of Baghdad. Such liners, Major Weber said, were “copycats” stamped in Iraq, not Iran. To the untrained eye, the liners initially looked identical to the genuine ones.

But Major Weber then pointed out that there were often slightly visible cracks forming circles around the tops of the liners when they were set on a table with their concave sides pointing down. Those imperfections were signs that the liners had been made in Iraq, Major Weber said. And because of the imperfections, he said, an E.F.P. made with them would be much less deadly. Such an E.F.P. would fragment rather than curl into a ball, he said, and the fragments would be much less likely to pierce armor.

Michael R. Gordon and Scott Shane contributed reporting from Washington.

Ray

Obstructions to the path of stability.

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Shek

New York Times
April 12, 2007

U.S. Suspects That Iran Aids Both Sunni And Shiite Militias

By Alissa J. Rubin

BAGHDAD, April 11 — Arms that American military officials say appear to have been manufactured in Iran as recently as last year have turned up in the past week in a Sunni-majority area, the chief spokesman for the American military command in Iraq said Wednesday in a news conference.

The spokesman, Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell IV, said that detainees in American custody had indicated that Iranian intelligence operatives had given support to Sunni insurgents and that surrogates for the Iranian intelligence service were training Shiite extremists in Iran. He gave no further description of the detainees and did not say why they would have that information.

“We have in fact found some cases recently where Iranian intelligence sources have provided to Sunni insurgent groups some support,” said General Caldwell, who sat near a table crowded with weapons that he said the military contended were largely of Iranian manufacture.

The weapons were found in a mostly Sunni neighborhood in Baghdad, he said, a rare instance of the American military suggesting any link between Iran and the Sunni insurgency. It has recently suggested a link with Shiite militants in Iraq.

The accusation of a link between the Iranian intelligence service and Sunni Arab insurgents is new. The American military has contended in the past that elements in Iran have given Shiite militants powerful Iranian-made roadside bombs known as explosively formed penetrators, and training in their use.

Critics have cast doubt on the American military statements about those bombs, saying the evidence linking them to Iran was circumstantial and inferential.

The weapons displayed on Wednesday were more conventional, and officials pointed to markings on them that they said indicated Iranian manufacture.

The display came as the military released figures showing that 26 percent fewer civilians were killed and wounded in Baghdad from Jan. 1 through March 31 than during the previous quarter, as the new American effort to secure Baghdad got under way, but that nationwide civilian casualties had risen.

From February to March the number of dead and wounded nationwide, including civilians and members of Iraqi and American security forces, rose 10 percent, according to the military report.

“What does that mean?” General Caldwell said. “It means we still have a lot of work to do.”

The military announced that one soldier died on the eastern side of Baghdad from a roadside bomb early Wednesday and that another soldier died in southern Baghdad on Tuesday.

In his statement, General Caldwell renewed American contentions that Iran was not doing enough to stop weapons from being moved into Iraq from outside.

It is unclear from the military’s comments on Wednesday whether it is possible to draw conclusions about how the weapons that the military contends are of Iranian origin might have made their way into a predominantly Sunni area or why Shiite Iran would arm Sunni militants.

There are several possibilities, military officials who were not authorized to speak publicly for attribution said privately. One is that they came through Syria, long a transit route for Iranian-made weapons being funneled to the Lebanese Shiite militia Hezbollah. Another possibility is that arms dealers are selling to every side in the conflict.

The weapons on the table next to General Caldwell were found two days ago, the general said, after a resident of the predominantly Sunni Arab neighborhood called Jihad, in western Baghdad, informed the local Joint Security Station run by Iraqi and American soldiers that there were illegal arms in the area.

The soldiers found a black Mercedes sedan and on its back seat, in plain view, a rocket of a type commonly made in China but repainted and labeled and sold by Iran, said Maj. Marty Weber, a master ordnance technician who joined General Caldwell at the briefing. In the trunk were mortar rounds marked “made in 2006.”

In a nearby house and buried in the yard, the soldiers found more mortar rounds, 1,000 to 2,000 rounds of bullets, five hand grenades and a couple of Bulgarian-made rocket-propelled grenades, Major Weber said.

The weapons that the military officials said were of Iranian origin were labeled in English, which Major Weber said was typical of arms manufactured for international sale. He added that the military knew that they were of Iranian origin by “the structure of the rounds, the geometry of the tailfins and, again, the stenciling on the warheads.”

He also said the mortar rounds marked 81 millimeters on the table were made regionally only by Iran.

In the political arena, the members of Parliament allied with the militant Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr announced that they would leave the government unless Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki set a fixed timetable for the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq. Mr. Maliki rejected the idea this week.

The capital was largely quiet on Wednesday, but 16 bodies were found around the city and a director general of the city’s electricity ministry was assassinated, an Interior Ministry official said. The center of the city, where fighting raged on Tuesday, remained extremely tense.

The United States military raised the death toll from Tuesday’s estimate to 14 insurgents in Fadhil killed, 8 detained and 12 wounded.

Sheik Jasim Yehiya Jasim, the imam of Al Joba mosque, whose brother was killed by the Iraqi Army, said he was devastated and confused about why his brother had been singled out and killed. “He was born only in 1982,” Sheik Jasim said. “He did the call to prayer. I thank the Iraqi and American governments in the name of the people of Fadhil for this bloody democracy.”

Khalid al-Ansary contributed reporting.

Shek

Washington Post
April 12, 2007
Pg. 22

Iran Giving Arms To Iraq's Sunnis, U.S. Military Says

Such Aid Would Mark Shift by Tehran

By Sudarsan Raghavan, Washington Post Foreign Service

BAGHDAD, April 11 -- The chief U.S. military spokesman in Iraq asserted Wednesday that Iranian-made arms, manufactured as recently as last year, have reached Sunni insurgents here, which if true would mark a new development in the four-year-old conflict.

Citing testimony from detainees in U.S. custody, Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell said Iranian intelligence operatives were backing the Sunni militants inside Iraq while at the same time training Shiite extremists in Iran.

"We have, in fact, found some cases recently where Iranian intelligence services have provided to some Sunni insurgent groups some support," Caldwell told reporters, adding that he was aware of only Shiite extremists being trained inside Iran. Caldwell cited a collection of munitions on a nearby table that he said were made in Iran and found two days ago in a majority-Sunni neighborhood in Baghdad.

Khalil Sadati, media adviser for the Iranian Embassy in Baghdad, denied his government was backing militant groups inside Iraq. "There's no such thing." Sadati said. "Why don't you ask the Americans why they continue to make accusations without any evidence?"

For months, U.S. officials have alleged that Iranian entities have provided Shiite militias with weapons, including potent roadside bombs the military calls EFPs, or explosively formed penetrators, that have killed dozens of U.S. soldiers. Wednesday marked the first time that U.S. officials have asserted that Sunni insurgents were also receiving arms from Iran.

It was unclear what motivation Iran, a Shiite theocracy, would have for backing Sunni insurgents, many of whom are staunchly anti-Iranian and fear the rise of Shiite power in the region. Critics have dismissed the U.S. assertions, saying that evidence provided so far gives no solid proof that Iran has supplied weapons to Iraqi militants.

Wednesday's allegations arrive at a particularly tense period for U.S-Iranian relations. The U.S. military has in custody five Iranian nationals -- Iran calls them diplomats -- who U.S. officials say entered Iraq to foment violence against U.S. soldiers and Iraqis. And an Iranian diplomat who was released from captivity inside Iraq last week asserts that he was tortured by the Central Intelligence Agency. He was abducted by unknown gunmen Feb. 4 on a downtown Baghdad street.

"The CIA had no role in this individual's release or capture. And allegations that he was tortured by the agency are ludicrous," spokesman Mark Mansfield said Wednesday from CIA headquarters in Langley, Va.

Caldwell also painted a mixed picture of the violence in Iraq eight weeks into a security plan intended to quell turmoil in the capital. From January to March, civilian deaths dropped 26 percent in Baghdad, he said. But violence surged in many areas outside the capital, resulting in a rise in civilian deaths across Iraq over the same period. Most of the victims were killed by car bombs or suicide bombers, he said.

From February, when the security plan was launched, to March, the total number of deaths -- civilians, Iraqi security forces and U.S. troops -- rose by 10 percent, he said. "What does this mean? It means that we still have a lot of work to do," Caldwell said.

"The goal of these murderers is to ignite a cycle of violence. They want to murder people of one sect to try to provoke revenge killings, so that this country will be divided and weak," he added.

Also Wednesday, the International Committee of the Red Cross called for "urgent action" to better protect Iraqi civilians from the violence. The call came as the group released a report on the "deteriorating humanitarian situation in Iraq."

Regarding the weapons attributed to Iran, Caldwell said an Iraqi man turned up two days ago at a security outpost in the predominantly Sunni al-Jihad neighborhood and tipped off soldiers to the munitions. He directed the soldiers to a house, where they spotted a black Mercedes sedan, Caldwell said. The arms, including mortars and rockets, were inside the car and its trunk, as well as buried on the property. The house was empty, he said.

Several mortar rounds on display at the news conference had markings that read "2006," suggesting they had been manufactured -- and arrived in Iraq -- after the U.S.-led invasion in 2003. The markings on all the munitions were in English. Maj. Marty Weber, an explosives expert, said countries selling arms on the global market tend to use English lettering.

"The death and violence in Iraq are bad enough without this outside interference," Caldwell said. "Iran and all of Iraq's neighbors really need to respect Iraq's sovereignty and allow the people of this country the time and the space to choose their own future."

Staff writer Robin Wright in Washington contributed to this report.

flogger

Saudi Arabia are by far the largest arms supplier to the Sunnis who in turn are the greatest threat to the coalition forces in Iraq

Yet not a whimper from Capitol Hill ...... I wonder why.

The same reason 28 pages were omitted from the 9/11 report regarding Saudi involvement perhaps.

Why all this rhetoric against Iran when Pakistan already has nukes and is actually harbouring Bin Laden.

More 'bull in a china shop' foreign policy in the ME methinks lacking any reason whatsoever.

Garry

Sometimes I am getting really surprised when I look at americans! They are SO MUCH SOVIET.....

Bush has foolled them twice.... and yet there is big part of the society which will eat even more propaganda regardless of how illogic it might be. The very issue of Iran supplying weapons to insurgents was brought up NOW to prepare society why USA will BOMB Iran.

Why not to collect same number of weapons from China? Don't tell me that there are NO fresh Chinese ammunition in there.... they were in some small quantities even in Chechnya where Russian ammunition was a major material of war. Russian support would be even better..... I am sure you can find some fresh Russian bombs there as well smugled though Iran from Central Asia...

This "INFORMATION" was brought up NOW for a purpose. Millitary did this collection for a purpose - PR WAR.

I have little doubts that Iran is supplying insurgents in Iraq... proffs are lousy this time... but this would seem quite possible. So what? Does it change ANYTHING? Iran was supplying Afghanistan mojahedeens against USSR yet there was no point in opening war against Iran then for USSR...

However, today, Bush administration does plan to bomb them... and they see it quite a risky venture for domestic policy... so they need little more arguments in favor.

USA are so much soviet.... people eat propaganda from palms.... Look at some event on Fox/CNN then BBC and then Al Jazeera..... same facts but with different emotional wrapping.... You would see different realities.... but there is ONLY ONE regardless of the reporters/commenters oppions

Shek

Actually, the biggest arms supplier to the Sunni is Saddam Hussein. Iraq was and still is an arms depot thanks to all the arms imports under the Ba'athists.

Ray

Saudis are the biggest impediment in the ME.

Saudis are financing the terrorists and there is no doubt about that!

And yet.......

Why?

Herodotus

it is an interesting shift by Iran if it is true. What goals are they trying to pursue with such a policy other than formenting chaos and keeping the American troops down. Surely the Arab Sunnis would set their sights on Persian Shiites if American troops withdraw from Iraq.

Garry

Chaos in Iraq gives Iran a hope that USA stay there for much longer.... and stay DEEPLY involved.... having all their focus in IRAQ.

This gives more time to build enrichment facilities. Iran still needs more than 5 years to get some creadible nuke..... They hope that USA would be having trouble in Iraq all those years.... and USA give them all the reasons for that hope

So.... why not to help to sunnies for a while if it only curbs you MAJOR opponent.... Sunnies will not dominate Iraq anyway.... they are minority.... and their chances to restore controll are IN PAST... so they risk LITTLE

Shek

Herodotus,

I think that minor support of some Sunni groups wouldn't be out of the question - as long as the support doesn't amount to a large technological transfer that could result in "blowback," then it would be in Iran's interests to do so. I'm with Garry on this one - keep the US military occupied in Iraq to create breathing space for their nuclear ambitions, which then introduces a wild card into the regional equation.