British leave, battle erupts over Basra

Ray · 03-26-2007, 04:50 AM

Quote:

British leave, battle erupts over Basra

Turmoil like that in the southern port city could erupt elsewhere in Iraq as outside forces depart, say analysts.
By Sam Dagher | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

Page 1 of 3

BAGHDAD - Just two days after British troops pulled out of downtown Basra, Iraq's second-largest city and center of the country's oil-rich south, fighting erupted between rival Shiite groups in street battles Thursday.

An eyewitness reported that masked gunmen swept through the center of the city carrying AK-47s and rocket launchers as members of Moqtada al Sadr's Mahdi Army and the Fadhila Party, which controls the province, apparently fought over a government building just vacated by British troops.

The turmoil in the capital of the southern province, home to a key port and most of the country's oil wealth, signals the beginning of the kind of battles that could erupt in Iraq as outside forces depart, say analysts. "There will be a power vacuum in Basra," says Martin Navias, an analyst at the Centre for Defence Studies at King's College in London. "As the British begin to extricate themselves from Basra, there will be fighting among these groups."

Fadhila officials said that "neighboring" countries, in a veiled reference to Iran, were backing certain factions in Basra including an individual they named who has known links to Mr. Sadr. "Iranian influence in southern Iraq is very strong and there are loads of Iranian personnel running around Basra, but which faction they are coming down for is unclear," says Mr. Navias.

"The British adopted a policy of live and let live. They never confronted the Shiite militias unless they were pushed in certain situations .... This allowed the different factions to assume power in the governing council, police and other institutions."

The Iraqi eyewitness to the fighting, who identified himself as Abu Ali, a Shiite contacted by phone in Basra, says, "It was unreal, some [of the fighters] looked like they were 12 years old." He didn't give his real name for fear the Mahdi Army will target him. "They were shouting: Moqtada, Moqtada."

He escaped the fighting on a side street and heard heavy gunfire and explosions. Shopkeepers began to close and run away too. "It was horrible. I barely escaped alive," he says.

Hassan al-Shimmari, the head of Fadhila, told the Al Arabiya news channel from Amman, Jordan, that the situation was so bad that the provincial governor had to use a weapon during the clash to help defend the governorate building and his home that is nearby.

"Our initial information indicates that there is a person who goes by the name Abu Qader, who leads these operations.... He is connected to a neighboring country. He received significant funds and weapons from this country to recruit fighters and undermine the security situation in the province of Basra," he said in reference to Iran, though he did not name it specifically.

Sources in Mr. Sadr's movement in Baghdad and Basra said that Abu Qader was in the Mahdi Army.

Reuters reported that hospital sources said seven people had been wounded in the clashes. Shortly after midday Thursday intense gunfire dwindled to sporadic shooting.

A curfew was imposed for several hours as Iraqi police, soldiers, and British troops deployed in the area.

"We don't have a great deal of clarity on what happened but police asked us to deploy our forces in that part of the city. By the time we got there there wasn't much to see," said British military spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel Kevin Stratford-Wright.

Details of the fighting were sketchy but Ali al-Hamadi, the head of Basra's emergency security committee, blamed it on a "misunderstanding" between Fadhila and the Mahdi Army.

Officials of Mr. Sadr's movement and the Fadhila Party sought to play down the violence. "Whatever is happening, there is no problem between us and the Sadrists. There is no way we would clash with them," said Nadim al-Jabiri, a senior official of Fadhila.

Salaam al-Maliki, a Sadrist and former transport minister, blamed the fighting on a personal dispute between the director general of the electricity directorate and an engineer.

"The picture is not clear. It seems the engineer has brought members of his tribe. It is a tribal thing, not political."

British Prime Minister Tony Blair said in February that Britain would begin withdrawing a quarter of its 7,000 troops stationed mainly in and around Basra.

While Basra has not experienced the levels of violence seen in the capital Baghdad, criminal gangs have taken root amid fighting between rival Shiite militias and political parties for control of its vast oil wealth.

Basra, whose oil accounts for almost all of Iraq's state revenues since northern export pipelines have been crippled by bombings, is a major prize for all parties.

Meanwhile, in Baghdad, UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon was left shaken but unhurt Thursday on his first visit to the capital after a Katyusha rocket landed just meters from a building where he was giving a news conference.

Moments after telling journalists he might boost the UN's presence in Iraq because of improved security, a thunderous blast sent shockwaves through the conference venue, startling Ban and sending him ducking for cover behind a podium. Security guards grabbed Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki who was standing next to Ban at the time and was dusted by small bits of debris that fell from the ceiling.

• Material from Reuters was used in this report.

British leave, battle erupts over Basra | csmonitor.com

It now appears that the power struggle has added another dimension to the internecine struggle between the Sunni and Shias - now the Shias are fighting amongst themselves too!

Quite a circus.

To blame the British for a lackadaisical approach is merely finding excuse. It is obviously that they could not take sides and so the different factions found their own niches in the institutions of governance. Nothing wrong in that or is it?

It is naiive to expect Iran will stand aside and not dip its fingers in the till! South Iraq is Shia and South Iraq is the main source of oil which funds Iraq. Therefore, having this huge South Iraq oilfield put under its proxy is very lucrative a proposition, since added to this, the Iranian oilfields would constitute a large input in strangulating the world economy since it is based on oil.

Therefore, while it is all fine to bring Freedom and Democracy, it is a point for incredulous wonderment as to why areas critical to the interests of the US should be left untended and open to the enemy of the US to grab it!

Any plausible reason?

TheChosenOne · 03-26-2007, 06:26 AM

Many of the same question's I ask myself Ray.

You want to know what's sad. I don't think the US has near enough troops on ground in Iraq to deal with this! Just remember this and the stats probably aren't accurate. For every soldier that goes outside the wire, there are I'd say at least 5 that have to stay on the base to support that soldier. The US would have to send a whole division to Basra minimal and that won't happen. I think Basra and this area may be in truth, lost to us. Unless the IA's step up but I find that unlikely.

The reports I get don't cover that far south but I've heard disturbing news come up from convoy's out of Kuwait.

pdf27 · 03-26-2007, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Reuters reported that hospital sources said seven people had been wounded in the clashes. Shortly after midday Thursday intense gunfire dwindled to sporadic shooting.

I think this says it all. In a city of what, two million (?) to have seven people wounded in a "major gun battle" doesn't make a lot of sense. Basra is certainly something of a political hotbed, but I'd be rather surprised if it suddenly erupted into civil war. Even during the worst of the riots a while back (last summer?) the TV cameras were apparently capturing the entire set of riots for Basra in a single shot.

Ray · 03-27-2007, 05:14 AM

Pdf,

You have a point.

However, the fact that militant factions are fighting amongst themselves jockeying for power with one being supported by an enemy of the US does make the situation tricky. More so, when every day one hears from the US podium that Iran has to be lessoned!

Now, look at the bigger picture. There is the internecine struggle between the Shias and the Sunnis. Though not reported extensively in the western media, there is a huge exodus from Iraq to Syria, Jordan and Lebanon. These are ideal recruitment material for more 'warrior for the Cause', depending on which side you are on.

That means more problems.

And the situation in the US itself is not rosy. They want their boys back. And the boys in Iraq are also fed up to their gills.

Therefore, is this the way the path is paved for the "boys" coming home?

They will be there forever unless a cogent and cognitive plan is chalked out. Voids don't help, especially in areas where there is some semblance of order as in Basra.

gunnut · 03-27-2007, 20:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdf27

I think this says it all. In a city of what, two million (?) to have seven people wounded in a "major gun battle" doesn't make a lot of sense. Basra is certainly something of a political hotbed, but I'd be rather surprised if it suddenly erupted into civil war. Even during the worst of the riots a while back (last summer?) the TV cameras were apparently capturing the entire set of riots for Basra in a single shot.

HA! I didn't even catch that. We had more people wounded during a bank robbery 10 years ago.

Seven people wounded is a good day in Gaza.

Ray · 03-29-2007, 05:28 AM

Gunnut,

Hey, you forgotten the cliché - more people knock off on the US highways!

**Shek** · 04-18-2007, 14:06 PM

New York Times
April 18, 2007

Demonstration In Basra Signals Growing Tensions Between Iraqi Shiites

By Alissa J. Rubin

BAGHDAD, April 17 — In the latest sign of worsening tensions among Shiite factions, several hundred people demonstrated Tuesday to force the governor of Basra to step down, a move that could throw that already unsettled southern city into turmoil.

The protesters gathered in 13 tents at the edge of the Ashar River in Basra, Iraq’s second-largest city, for the start of a three-day demonstration in front of the governor’s office. They were drawn from several groups, but among them were people who appeared to have links to the Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr.

Mr. Sadr’s movement has been increasingly at odds with the government, even though his party is a member of the Shiite coalition that helped put Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki in power. On Monday, six ministers allied to Mr. Sadr announced that they were leaving the government.

The governor, Muhammad al-Waeli, is from Fadhila, a Shiite party that also recently withdrew from the Shiite coalition in Parliament, though his party is at odds with Mr. Sadr’s faction.

Government officials in Baghdad said that the governor was under pressure to resign but that there was no sign yet that he would give up power. His resignation could dangerously heighten competition for power among the Shiite political parties in Basra — all of which are struggling to control the oil-rich area that is close to the Persian Gulf.

In Basra, Diwaniya and Kut, all areas in the south, there have been fights between Mr. Sadr’s organization and government forces, even though each is dominated by Shiites.

The protesters on Tuesday complained primarily about the lack services in the city, including electricity, potable water and jobs. Several protesters described Mr. Waeli as a corrupt politician who gave jobs only to people from his own party.

“We want to live like human beings, and our city lacks a lot of services,” said one of the protesters, Assad Nusaef, who was wearing the black clothes favored by Sadr loyalists. “We don’t have pure water, and we have to buy water from official factories.”

“We are an oil state, but we live in poverty and the governor and his party is behind the joblessness,” he added. “The Fadhila loyalists fill the jobs at the Southern Oil Company and they don’t allow any one else to be employed by this company.” The Southern Oil Company is the state-owned concern in southern Iraq.

Supporters of Fadhila denied the charges and said they were a target of animosity because they had withdrawn from the Shiite coalition government.

“I know there have been mistakes, but we oppose the use of any violence against us,” said Wael Samir, a Fadhila Party member. “This protest is against the Fadhila Party, not the governor, because Fadhila withdrew from the Shiite group.”

In Diwaniya, another southern province, government forces and American troops were in the last stages of a multiday operation against gunmen allied with Mr. Sadr. The American soldiers distributed leaflets in the city on Tuesday, urging residents to turn over seven men “wanted for killing innocent people.”

American forces continued to search all vehicles entering the city, according to the local police. About 135 people have been detained in the operation, according to Iraqi security forces.

Violence in Baghdad was modest on Tuesday, with several people wounded by mortar shells and gunshots. However, 25 bodies were found, according to an Interior Ministry official — a higher tally than in recent weeks. If the trend persists, it could signal a return of the death squad activities that had slackened since United States and Iraqi forces began a new security plan in Baghdad on Feb. 14.

In Mosul, the police killed a suicide truck bomber as he approached the gate of an Iraqi Army base, said Brig. Saeed al-Jibouri. The truck exploded, either as a result of the shots or because the bomber detonated it before he died, killing a civilian and wounding four others. However, the damage would have been much worse had the driver reached his target.

In Ramadi, in Anbar Province, security forces found 17 bodies buried at a primary school, said Col. Tariq Yousif, the security supervisor in the city. The area had been under the control of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia.

The United States military reported that one soldier died Monday from wounds sustained when his vehicle was hit by a roadside bomb.

The military also clarified that its first reports on Monday that soldiers had mistakenly killed three Iraqi policemen in a raid in Ramadi were incorrect. The people killed were armed men, but not the police.

Iraqi employees of The New York Times contributed reporting from Basra and Diwaniya.

**Julie** · 04-18-2007, 14:27 PM

Didn't Sadr withdraw from the Iraqi Government? Why don't somebody just take this guy out?

**astralis** · 04-18-2007, 14:29 PM

julie,

unfortunately just because he's outside of the government doesn't mean he has no political power.

**Julie** · 04-18-2007, 14:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astralis

julie,

unfortunately just because he's outside of the government doesn't mean he has no political power.

Sounds to me like he needs NO power. He's creating a vacuum within the Iraqi Government, as well as with Iraqi citizens. I've not seen him bring nothing but harm to everyone in Iraq.

**Shek** · 04-18-2007, 14:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julie

Didn't Sadr withdraw from the Iraqi Government? Why don't somebody just take this guy out?

Julie,

He withdrew his six ministers from the cabinet, although as of yesterday, he hadn't pulled out his legislators. I don't know if that's changed today or not.

**Julie** · 04-18-2007, 14:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shek

Julie,

He withdrew his six ministers from the cabinet, although as of yesterday, he hadn't pulled out his legislators. I don't know if that's changed today or not.

I've never liked the guy since I laid eyes on him. He's got two-faced, backstabber written in his eyes. Those death squads sure hasn't hesitated in taking other government officials out there, I don't see where he would be any different. He's been nothing but trouble with a Capital T, unless of course, I've missed something where he has done some ultimate good for people there. If that is the case, with all due respect, I apologize for this remark.

pdf27 · 04-19-2007, 17:54 PM

One of the better articles on Basra...
Michael Yon : Online Magazine » Blog Archive » British Forces at War: As Witnessed by an American

glyn · 04-19-2007, 19:26 PM

Yes. An excellent article. I wonder how many will read it?

**astralis** · 04-19-2007, 21:47 PM

julie,

Quote:

He's creating a vacuum within the Iraqi Government, as well as with Iraqi citizens. I've not seen him bring nothing but harm to everyone in Iraq.

part of the reason why sadr is so powerful is because his movement has provided better and more efficient services to (shia) iraqis than the government...and has done a better job in protecting the shia than the government (albeit through death squads).

that's what makes him so powerful, and dangerous- he's an entity unto himself.

04-18-2007, 14:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
Shek *Military Professional* Moderator Join Date: 02-23-05 Location: Krblachistan Posts: 7,947 Country:	New York Times April 18, 2007 Demonstration In Basra Signals Growing Tensions Between Iraqi Shiites By Alissa J. Rubin BAGHDAD, April 17 — In the latest sign of worsening tensions among Shiite factions, several hundred people demonstrated Tuesday to force the governor of Basra to step down, a move that could throw that already unsettled southern city into turmoil. The protesters gathered in 13 tents at the edge of the Ashar River in Basra, Iraq’s second-largest city, for the start of a three-day demonstration in front of the governor’s office. They were drawn from several groups, but among them were people who appeared to have links to the Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr. Mr. Sadr’s movement has been increasingly at odds with the government, even though his party is a member of the Shiite coalition that helped put Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki in power. On Monday, six ministers allied to Mr. Sadr announced that they were leaving the government. The governor, Muhammad al-Waeli, is from Fadhila, a Shiite party that also recently withdrew from the Shiite coalition in Parliament, though his party is at odds with Mr. Sadr’s faction. Government officials in Baghdad said that the governor was under pressure to resign but that there was no sign yet that he would give up power. His resignation could dangerously heighten competition for power among the Shiite political parties in Basra — all of which are struggling to control the oil-rich area that is close to the Persian Gulf. In Basra, Diwaniya and Kut, all areas in the south, there have been fights between Mr. Sadr’s organization and government forces, even though each is dominated by Shiites. The protesters on Tuesday complained primarily about the lack services in the city, including electricity, potable water and jobs. Several protesters described Mr. Waeli as a corrupt politician who gave jobs only to people from his own party. “We want to live like human beings, and our city lacks a lot of services,” said one of the protesters, Assad Nusaef, who was wearing the black clothes favored by Sadr loyalists. “We don’t have pure water, and we have to buy water from official factories.” “We are an oil state, but we live in poverty and the governor and his party is behind the joblessness,” he added. “The Fadhila loyalists fill the jobs at the Southern Oil Company and they don’t allow any one else to be employed by this company.” The Southern Oil Company is the state-owned concern in southern Iraq. Supporters of Fadhila denied the charges and said they were a target of animosity because they had withdrawn from the Shiite coalition government. “I know there have been mistakes, but we oppose the use of any violence against us,” said Wael Samir, a Fadhila Party member. “This protest is against the Fadhila Party, not the governor, because Fadhila withdrew from the Shiite group.” In Diwaniya, another southern province, government forces and American troops were in the last stages of a multiday operation against gunmen allied with Mr. Sadr. The American soldiers distributed leaflets in the city on Tuesday, urging residents to turn over seven men “wanted for killing innocent people.” American forces continued to search all vehicles entering the city, according to the local police. About 135 people have been detained in the operation, according to Iraqi security forces. Violence in Baghdad was modest on Tuesday, with several people wounded by mortar shells and gunshots. However, 25 bodies were found, according to an Interior Ministry official — a higher tally than in recent weeks. If the trend persists, it could signal a return of the death squad activities that had slackened since United States and Iraqi forces began a new security plan in Baghdad on Feb. 14. In Mosul, the police killed a suicide truck bomber as he approached the gate of an Iraqi Army base, said Brig. Saeed al-Jibouri. The truck exploded, either as a result of the shots or because the bomber detonated it before he died, killing a civilian and wounding four others. However, the damage would have been much worse had the driver reached his target. In Ramadi, in Anbar Province, security forces found 17 bodies buried at a primary school, said Col. Tariq Yousif, the security supervisor in the city. The area had been under the control of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia. The United States military reported that one soldier died Monday from wounds sustained when his vehicle was hit by a roadside bomb. The military also clarified that its first reports on Monday that soldiers had mistakenly killed three Iraqi policemen in a raid in Ramadi were incorrect. The people killed were armed men, but not the police. Iraqi employees of The New York Times contributed reporting from Basra and Diwaniya. __________________ "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

04-18-2007, 14:29 PM	#9 (permalink)
astralis *Foreign Service* Moderator Lei Feng Protege Join Date: 08-23-05 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,481 Country:	julie, unfortunately just because he's outside of the government doesn't mean he has no political power. __________________ Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present. -Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

04-19-2007, 19:26 PM	#14 (permalink)
glyn *Military Professional* Join Date: 09-15-06 Location: Penzance, Cornwall UK Posts: 6,886	Yes. An excellent article. I wonder how many will read it? __________________ Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Iraq in Books - Review Essay	Shek	The War in Iraq	9	02-29-2008 06:08 AM
Afghanistan and the Future of Warfare	troung	Military Aviation	5	02-22-2008 20:59 PM
Articles and links for the Military Professional	Officer of Engineers	The Staff College	115	11-20-2006 11:28 AM
Britain 'is now biggest security threat to US'	Hari_Om	Political Discussions	18	09-04-2006 12:54 PM
Any evangelical christians on this message board?	mich	Israeli-Palestinian Conflict	129	08-27-2006 17:29 PM

03-26-2007, 06:26 AM	#2 (permalink)
TheChosenOne *Military Professional* Join Date: 01-12-07 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 142	Many of the same question's I ask myself Ray. You want to know what's sad. I don't think the US has near enough troops on ground in Iraq to deal with this! Just remember this and the stats probably aren't accurate. For every soldier that goes outside the wire, there are I'd say at least 5 that have to stay on the base to support that soldier. The US would have to send a whole division to Basra minimal and that won't happen. I think Basra and this area may be in truth, lost to us. Unless the IA's step up but I find that unlikely. The reports I get don't cover that far south but I've heard disturbing news come up from convoy's out of Kuwait.

03-27-2007, 05:14 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 28,236 Country:	Pdf, You have a point. However, the fact that militant factions are fighting amongst themselves jockeying for power with one being supported by an enemy of the US does make the situation tricky. More so, when every day one hears from the US podium that Iran has to be lessoned! Now, look at the bigger picture. There is the internecine struggle between the Shias and the Sunnis. Though not reported extensively in the western media, there is a huge exodus from Iraq to Syria, Jordan and Lebanon. These are ideal recruitment material for more 'warrior for the Cause', depending on which side you are on. That means more problems. And the situation in the US itself is not rosy. They want their boys back. And the boys in Iraq are also fed up to their gills. Therefore, is this the way the path is paved for the "boys" coming home? They will be there forever unless a cogent and cognitive plan is chalked out. Voids don't help, especially in areas where there is some semblance of order as in Basra.

03-29-2007, 05:28 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 28,236 Country:	Gunnut, Hey, you forgotten the cliché - more people knock off on the US highways!

04-18-2007, 14:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
Julie Moderator Join Date: 08-04-03 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 6,806 Country:	Didn't Sadr withdraw from the Iraqi Government? Why don't somebody just take this guy out?

04-19-2007, 17:54 PM	#13 (permalink)
pdf27 Contributor Join Date: 06-05-06 Location: UK Posts: 538 Country:	One of the better articles on Basra... Michael Yon : Online Magazine » Blog Archive » British Forces at War: As Witnessed by an American

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)