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Old 01-11-2004, 17:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
ChrisF202
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OOE, would you happen to know where I can find a PDF or text copy of the 1991 terms of surrender?
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Old 01-11-2004, 18:36 PM   #17 (permalink)
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RESOLUTION 687 (1991)
Adopted by the Security Council at its 2981st meeting,
on 3 April 1991

The Security Council,

Recalling its resolutions 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990, 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 662 (1990) of 9 August 1990, 664 (1990) of 18 August 1990, 665 (1990) of 25 August 1990, 666 (1990) of 13 September 1990, 667 (1990) of 16 September 1990, 669 (1990) of 24 September 1990, 670 (1990) of 25 September 1990, 674 (1990) of 29 October 1990, 677 (1990) of 28 November 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990 and 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991,

Welcoming the restoration to Kuwait of its sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity and the return of its legitimate Government,

Affirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of Kuwait and Iraq, and noting the intention expressed by the Member States cooperating with Kuwait under paragraph 2 of resolution 678 (1990) to bring their military presence in Iraq to an end as soon as possible consistent with paragraph 8 of resolution 686 (1991),

Reaffirming the need to be assured of Iraq's peaceful intentions in the light of its unlawful invasion and occupation of Kuwait,

Taking note of the letter sent by the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Iraq on 27 February 1991 and those sent pursuant to resolution 686 (1991),

Noting that Iraq and Kuwait, as independent sovereign States, signed at Baghdad on 4 October 1963 "Agreed Minutes Between the State of Kuwait and the Republic of Iraq Regarding the Restoration of Friendly Relations, Recognition and Related Matters", thereby recognizing formally the boundary between Iraq and Kuwait and the allocation of islands, which were registered with the United Nations in accordance with Article 102 of the Charter of the United Nations and in which Iraq recognized the independence and complete sovereignty of the State of Kuwait within its borders as specified and accepted in the letter of the Prime Minister of Iraq dated 21 July 1932, and as accepted by the Ruler of Kuwait in his letter dated 10 August 1932,

Conscious of the need for demarcation of the said boundary,

Conscious also of the statements by Iraq threatening to use weapons in violation of its obligations under the Geneva Protocol for the Prohibition of the Use in War of Asphyxiating, Poisonous or Other Gases, and of Bacteriological Methods of Warfare, signed at Geneva on 17 June 1925, and of its prior use of chemical weapons and affirming that grave consequences would follow any further use by Iraq of such weapons,

Recalling that Iraq has subscribed to the Declaration adopted by all States participating in the Conference of States Parties to the 1925 Geneva Protocol and Other Interested States, held in Paris from 7 to 11 January 1989, establishing the objective of universal elimination of chemical and biological weapons,

Recalling also that Iraq has signed the Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production and Stockpiling of Bacteriological (Biological) and Toxin Weapons and on Their Destruction, of 10 April 1972,

Noting the importance of Iraq ratifying this Convention,

Noting moreover the importance of all States adhering to this Convention and encouraging its forthcoming Review Conference to reinforce the authority, efficiency and universal scope of the convention,

Stressing the importance of an early conclusion by the Conference on Disarmament of its work on a Convention on the Universal Prohibition of Chemical Weapons and of universal adherence thereto,

Aware of the use by Iraq of ballistic missiles in unprovoked attacks and therefore of the need to take specific measures in regard to such missiles located in Iraq,

Concerned by the reports in the hands of Member States that Iraq has attempted to acquire materials for a nuclear-weapons programme contrary to its obligations under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons of 1 July 1968,

Recalling the objective of the establishment of a nuclear-weapons-free zone in the region of the Middle East,

Conscious of the threat that all weapons of mass destruction pose to peace and security in the area and of the need to work towards the establishment in the Middle East of a zone free of such weapons,

Conscious also of the objective of achieving balanced and comprehensive control of armaments in the region,

Conscious further of the importance of achieving the objectives noted above using all available means, including a dialogue among the States of the region,

Noting that resolution 686 (1991) marked the lifting of the measures imposed by resolution 661 (1990) in so far as they applied to Kuwait,

Noting that despite the progress being made in fulfilling the obligations of resolution 686 (1991), many Kuwaiti and third country nationals are still not accounted for and property remains unreturned,

Recalling the International Convention against the Taking of Hostages, opened for signature at New York on 18 December 1979, which categorizes all acts of taking hostages as manifestations of international terrorism,

Deploring threats made by Iraq during the recent conflict to make use of terrorism against targets outside Iraq and the taking of hostages by Iraq,

Taking note with grave concern of the reports of the Secretary-General of 20 March 1991 and 28 March 1991, and conscious of the necessity to meet urgently the humanitarian needs in Kuwait and Iraq,

Bearing in mind its objective of restoring international peace and security in the area as set out in recent resolutions of the Security Council,

Conscious of the need to take the following measures acting under Chapter VII of the Charter,

1. Affirms all thirteen resolutions noted above, except as expressly changed below to achieve the goals of this resolution, including a formal cease-fire;

A

2. Demands that Iraq and Kuwait respect the inviolability of the international boundary and the allocation of islands set out in the "Agreed Minutes Between the State of Kuwait and the Republic of Iraq Regarding the Restoration of Friendly Relations, Recognition and Related Matters", signed by them in the exercise of their sovereignty at Baghdad on 4 October 1963 and registered with the United Nations and published by the United Nations in document 7063, United Nations, Treaty Series, 1964;

3. Calls upon the Secretary-General to lend his assistance to make arrangements with Iraq and Kuwait to demarcate the boundary between Iraq and Kuwait, drawing on appropriate material, including the map transmitted by Security Council document S/22412 and to report back to the Security Council within one month;

4. Decides to guarantee the inviolability of the above-mentioned international boundary and to take as appropriate all necessary measures to that end in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations;

B

5. Requests the Secretary-General, after consulting with Iraq and Kuwait, to submit within three days to the Security Council for its approval a plan for the immediate deployment of a United Nations observer unit to monitor the Khor Abdullah and a demilitarized zone, which is hereby established, extending ten kilometres into Iraq and five kilometres into Kuwait from the boundary referred to in the "Agreed Minutes Between the State of Kuwait and the Republic of Iraq Regarding the Restoration of Friendly Relations, Recognition and Related Matters" of 4 October 1963; to deter violations of the boundary through its presence in and surveillance of the demilitarized zone; to observe any hostile or potentially hostile action mounted from the territory of one State to the other; and for the Secretary-General to report regularly to the Security Council on the operations of the unit, and immediately if there are serious violations of the zone or potential threats to peace;

6. Notes that as soon as the Secretary-General notifies the Security Council of the completion of the deployment of the United Nations observer unit, the conditions will be established for the Member States cooperating with Kuwait in accordance with resolution 678 (1990) to bring their military presence in Iraq to an end consistent with resolution 686 (1991);

C

7. Invites Iraq to reaffirm unconditionally its obligations under the Geneva Protocol for the Prohibition of the Use in War of Asphyxiating, Poisonous or Other Gases, and of Bacteriological Methods of Warfare, signed at Geneva on 17 June 1925, and to ratify the Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production and Stockpiling of Bacteriological (Biological) and Toxin Weapons and on Their Destruction, of 10 April 1972;

8. Decides that Iraq shall unconditionally accept the destruction, removal, or rendering harmless, under international supervision, of:

(a) All chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities;

(b) All ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometres and related major parts, and repair and production facilities;

9. Decides, for the implementation of paragraph 8 above, the following:

(a) Iraq shall submit to the Secretary-General, within fifteen days of the adoption of the present resolution, a declaration of the locations, amounts and types of all items specified in paragraph 8 and agree to urgent, on-site inspection as specified below;

(b) The Secretary-General, in consultation with the appropriate Governments and, where appropriate, with the Director-General of the World Health Organization, within forty-five days of the passage of the present resolution, shall develop, and submit to the Council for approval, a plan calling for the completion of the following acts within forty-five days of such approval:

(i) The forming of a Special Commission, which shall carry out immediate on-site inspection of Iraq's biological, chemical and missile capabilities, based on Iraq's declarations and the designation of any additional locations by the Special Commission itself;

(ii) The yielding by Iraq of possession to the Special Commission for destruction, removal or rendering harmless, taking into account the requirements of public safety, of all items specified under paragraph 8 (a) above, including items at the additional locations designated by the Special Commission under paragraph 9 (b) (i) above and the destruction by Iraq, under the supervision of the Special Commission, of all its missile capabilities, including launchers, as specified under paragraph 8 (b) above;

(iii) The provision by the Special Commission of the assistance and cooperation to the Director-General of the International Atomic Energy Agency required in paragraphs 12 and 13 below;

10. Decides that Iraq shall unconditionally undertake not to use, develop, construct or acquire any of the items specified in paragraphs 8 and 9 above and requests the Secretary-General, in consultation with the Special Commission, to develop a plan for the future ongoing monitoring and verification of Iraq's compliance with this paragraph, to be submitted to the Security Council for approval within one hundred and twenty days of the passage of this resolution;

11. Invites Iraq to reaffirm unconditionally its obligations under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons of 1 July 1968;

12. Decides that Iraq shall unconditionally agree not to acquire or develop nuclear weapons or nuclear-weapons-usable material or any subsystems or components or any research, development, support or manufacturing facilities related to the above; to submit to the Secretary-General and the Director-General of the International Atomic Energy Agency within fifteen days of the adoption of the present resolution a declaration of the locations, amounts, and types of all items specified above; to place all of its nuclear-weapons-usable materials under the exclusive control, for custody and removal, of the International Atomic Energy Agency, with the assistance and cooperation of the Special Commission as provided for in the plan of the Secretary-General discussed in paragraph 9 (b) above; to accept, in accordance with the arrangements provided for in paragraph 13 below, urgent on-site inspection and the destruction, removal or rendering harmless as appropriate of all items specified above; and to accept the plan discussed in paragraph 13 below for the future ongoing monitoring and verification of its compliance with these undertakings;

13. Requests the Director-General of the International Atomic Energy Agency, through the Secretary-General, with the assistance and cooperation of the Special Commission as provided for in the plan of the Secretary-General in paragraph 9 (b) above, to carry out immediate on-site inspection of Iraq's nuclear capabilities based on Iraq's declarations and the designation of any additional locations by the Special Commission; to develop a plan for submission to the Security Council within forty-five days calling for the destruction, removal, or rendering harmless as appropriate of all items listed in paragraph 12 above; to carry out the plan within forty-five days following approval by the Security Council; and to develop a plan, taking into account the rights and obligations of Iraq under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons of 1 July 1968, for the future ongoing monitoring and verification of Iraq's compliance with paragraph 12 above, including an inventory of all nuclear material in Iraq subject to the Agency's verification and inspections to confirm that Agency safeguards cover all relevant nuclear activities in Iraq, to be submitted to the Security Council for approval within one hundred and twenty days of the passage of the present resolution;

14. Takes note that the actions to be taken by Iraq in paragraphs 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13 of the present resolution represent steps towards the goal of establishing in the Middle East a zone free from weapons of mass destruction and all missiles for their delivery and the objective of a global ban on chemical weapons;

D

15. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Security Council on the steps taken to facilitate the return of all Kuwaiti property seized by Iraq, including a list of any property that Kuwait claims has not been returned or which has not been returned intact;

E

16. Reaffirms that Iraq, without prejudice to the debts and obligations of Iraq arising prior to 2 August 1990, which will be addressed through the normal mechanisms, is liable under international law for any direct loss, damage, including environmental damage and the depletion of natural resources, or injury to foreign Governments, nationals and corporations, as a result of Iraq's unlawful invasion and occupation of Kuwait;

17. Decides that all Iraqi statements made since 2 August 1990 repudiating its foreign debt are null and void, and demands that Iraq adhere scrupulously to all of its obligations concerning servicing and repayment of its foreign debt;

18. Decides also to create a fund to pay compensation for claims that fall within paragraph 16 above and to establish a Commission that will administer the fund;

19. Directs the Secretary-General to develop and present to the Security Council for decision, no later than thirty days following the adoption of the present resolution, recommendations for the fund to meet the requirement for the payment of claims established in accordance with paragraph 18 above and for a programme to implement the decisions in paragraphs 16, 17 and 18 above, including: administration of the fund; mechanisms for determining the appropriate level of Iraq's contribution to the fund based on a percentage of the value of the exports of petroleum and petroleum products from Iraq not to exceed a figure to be suggested to the Council by the Secretary-General, taking into account the requirements of the people of Iraq, Iraq's payment capacity as assessed in conjunction with the international financial institutions taking into consideration external debt service, and the needs of the Iraqi economy; arrangements for ensuring that payments are made to the fund; the process by which funds will be allocated and claims paid; appropriate procedures for evaluating losses, listing claims and verifying their validity and resolving disputed claims in respect of Iraq's liability as specified in paragraph 16 above; and the composition of the Commission designated above;

F

20. Decides, effective immediately, that the prohibitions against the sale or supply to Iraq of commodities or products, other than medicine and health supplies, and prohibitions against financial transactions related thereto contained in resolution 661 (1990) shall not apply to foodstuffs notified to the Security Council Committee established by resolution 661 (1990) concerning the situation between Iraq and Kuwait or, with the approval of that Committee, under the simplified and accelerated "no-objection" procedure, to materials and supplies for essential civilian needs as identified in the report of the Secretary-General dated 20 March 1991, and in any further findings of humanitarian need by the Committee;

21. Decides that the Security Council shall review the provisions of paragraph 20 above every sixty days in the light of the policies and practices of the Government of Iraq, including the implementation of all relevant resolutions of the Security Council, for the purpose of determining whether to reduce or lift the prohibitions referred to therein;

22. Decides that upon the approval by the Security Council of the programme called for in paragraph 19 above and upon Council agreement that Iraq has completed all actions contemplated in paragraphs 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13 above, the prohibitions against the import of commodities and products originating in Iraq and the prohibitions against financial transactions related thereto contained in resolution 661 (1990) shall have no further force or effect;

23. Decides that, pending action by the Security Council under paragraph 22 above, the Security Council Committee established by resolution 661 (1990) shall be empowered to approve, when required to assure adequate financial resources on the part of Iraq to carry out the activities under paragraph 20 above, exceptions to the prohibition against the import of commodities and products originating in Iraq;

24. Decides that, in accordance with resolution 661 (1990) and subsequent related resolutions and until a further decision is taken by the Security Council, all States shall continue to prevent the sale or supply, or the promotion or facilitation of such sale or supply, to Iraq by their nationals, or from their territories or using their flag vessels or aircraft, of:

(a) Arms and related materiel of all types, specifically including the sale or transfer through other means of all forms of conventional military equipment, including for paramilitary forces, and spare parts and components and their means of production, for such equipment;

(b) Items specified and defined in paragraphs 8 and 12 above not otherwise covered above;

(c) Technology under licensing or other transfer arrangements used in the production, utilization or stockpiling of items specified in subparagraphs (a) and (b) above;

(d) Personnel or materials for training or technical support services relating to the design, development, manufacture, use, maintenance or support of items specified in subparagraphs (a) and (b) above;

25. Calls upon all States and international organizations to act strictly in accordance with paragraph 24 above, notwithstanding the existence of any contracts, agreements, licences or any other arrangements;

26. Requests the Secretary-General, in consultation with appropriate Governments, to develop within sixty days, for the approval of the Security Council, guidelines to facilitate full international implementation of paragraphs 24 and 25 above and paragraph 27 below, and to make them available to all States and to establish a procedure for updating these guidelines periodically;

27. Calls upon all States to maintain such national controls and procedures and to take such other actions consistent with the guidelines to be established by the Security Council under paragraph 26 above as may be necessary to ensure compliance with the terms of paragraph 24 above, and calls upon international organizations to take all appropriate steps to assist in ensuring such full compliance;

28. Agrees to review its decisions in paragraphs 22, 23, 24 and 25 above, except for the items specified and defined in paragraphs 8 and 12 above, on a regular basis and in any case one hundred and twenty days following passage of the present resolution, taking into account Iraq's compliance with the resolution and general progress towards the control of armaments in the region;

29. Decides that all States, including Iraq, shall take the necessary measures to ensure that no claim shall lie at the instance of the Government of Iraq, or of any person or body in Iraq, or of any person claiming through or for the benefit of any such person or body, in connection with any contract or other transaction where its performance was affected by reason of the measures taken by the Security Council in resolution 661 (1990) and related resolutions;

G

30. Decides that, in furtherance of its commitment to facilitate the repatriation of all Kuwaiti and third country nationals, Iraq shall extend all necessary cooperation to the International Committee of the Red Cross, providing lists of such persons, facilitating the access of the International Committee of the Red Cross to all such persons wherever located or detained and facilitating the search by the International Committee of the Red Cross for those Kuwaiti and third country nationals still unaccounted for;

31. Invites the International Committee of the Red Cross to keep the Secretary-General apprised as appropriate of all activities undertaken in connection with facilitating the repatriation or return of all Kuwaiti and third country nationals or their remains present in Iraq on or after 2 August 1990;

H

32. Requires Iraq to inform the Security Council that it will not commit or support any act of international terrorism or allow any organization directed towards commission of such acts to operate within its territory and to condemn unequivocally and renounce all acts, methods and practices of terrorism; I

33. Declares that, upon official notification by Iraq to the Secretary-General and to the Security Council of its acceptance of the provisions above, a formal cease-fire is effective between Iraq and Kuwait and the Member States cooperating with Kuwait in accordance with resolution 678 (1990);

34. Decides to remain seized of the matter and to take such further steps as may be required for the implementation of the present resolution and to secure peace and security in the area.

Full Text of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 (1991)
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Old 01-11-2004, 19:23 PM   #18 (permalink)
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thanks ironman
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Old 01-11-2004, 23:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Trooth
Saddam was restricted as to his weapons. But he was always going to have some weapons. The point was that he should not become an offensive threat to his neighbours. The fact that those missiles went a little further than they were designed to do does not, in my mind, show intent to invade his neighbours. After all the range only came to light because of some (not all) test results of some of the missles and that they could fly a little further than the Iraqi's themselves had expected. The warhead limit was imposed by the west, it seems harsh to say therefore it must be for WMD, but i take your point.
I do not want to belabour the point but I do want to show you how I arrived at my conclusions. This is a modified Soviet SA-2 SAM. The original warhead size is 12kg. The Iraqis turned it into a "beggar's SCUD" by removing the guidance system and essentially using the extra space for fuel.

Thus, the only guidance system is pure ballastics which means that this thing can't hit a moving target and aims purely at stationary targets such as an HQ. 12 kgs of explosives ain't even going to dent the concrete of a building, especially a surface blast.

So, what kind of warhead would be effective in such situations?

Quote:
Originally posted by Trooth
Don't get me wrong, i support the war for the liberation of Iraq and the toppling of Saddam. I supported further action in GWI and was very upset by the attitude of GB Senior etc. The oversight of allowing the continued use of Helicopters and the incitement of the Iraqi's to overthrow Saddam with the implication that the Allies would come riding to the rescue was terrible.
Having seen combat, I can tell you it's the REMFs who decides who won and who lost long after the actions are over. All we know at the time is that the shooting has stopped and we were still alive.

I was at National Defence HQ at the time, monitoring and analysizing the situation and preparing for possible contigencies. All I can tell you at the time was that everyone in the HQ had the same thought - it's over. Of course, it wasn't but there is a sigh of relief that no more blood needed to be bled nor shed.

Was it the right thing to end the Kuwait War (btw, GW1 is the Iran-Iraq War, GW2 is the Kuwait War, and GW3 is the Iraq War) the way it did? Probably not but no one was volunteering to continue the mission.

Quote:
Originally posted by Trooth
However, i do not support the way the current war was put together and remain to be convinced as to the WMD threat that my gonverment sold me to allow it to send my fellow Britons to war.
Your gov't and mine have been sending people into harm's way without adequate explaintions to anyone. We served together in UNPROFOR and saw more combat than the Taliban War.

There is no good way to tell people that their sons are going into harm's way. There are never good reasons to goto war. However, there are also plenty of bad reasons to avoid war as well.

I can well understand the US/UK using the WMD issue. It's the simplest to understand, especially after 11 Sept. And explaining complicated issues to the public is the quickest way for them to lose interest.

My reasons for supporting war was that it became a strategic imperative to remove Saddam. 11 Sept gave him enough hints to start thinking about exacting vengence on the US. And his personal history has shown that the idiot never think things through even though they're obvious (Iran-Iraq War, Air War - Kuwait, Ground War - Kuwait, Air War - Iraq No Flight Zones, Assassination Attempt on Bush Sr, Iraq War).

Try explaining that to Joe Canada that war is necessary because some idiot is having wet dreams of 11 Sept.

Quote:
Originally posted by Trooth
Present company excepted of course, sir, but i believe a great many people in the west have a somewhat cavelier attitude to war and to battlefield deaths. Thankfully most people's only sight of such things nowadays is of John Wayne types falling in beautifully ironed shirts or flying in one piece away from a grenade. The reality, as we know, is much, much worse.

However if they have such an attitude i would rather my government did not get in the habit of misrepresenting situations before putting some fine young men and women in harms way and not take advantage of the luxury of peacetime misconceptions.
Part of the fault is mine and the rest of the lifers. Essentially we want so overwhelming force that it would be like an arcade game. Only we know it's not but how do you demonstrate confidence to the civies without appearing like John Waynes?

When I assigned tasks to my coy cmdrs, it's because I have complete confidence that they can do the job. I don't second guess myself into thinking that they may be shot up.
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Old 01-12-2004, 20:21 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I can't say that I've ever been in a war, nor do I wish to be. But as OOE stated their are never good reasons to go to war but their are plenty of bad reasons to avoid it. WW2 could have been stoped long before Poland if Europe had taken a tough stance against hitlers re-unification movements, he was clearly heading towards war, national pride was just an excuse. Saddam, Osama and Yasser Arafat all want to see their peverted form of islam inslave all the world, its obvious.
Saddam is a tyrinical madman who dosn' care if thousands of his people die, he once stated to one of his generals he was content to rule 5 million Iraqis and not the 18 million currently there. Osama has a very fanatical idiolodgy that he follows and its not pleasant thats for sure, and yasser cares not if the Palistinians get a state alongside the Jews. He would rather have a state that includes the former state of isreal after he crushes it (in his wet dreams) and drives the jews into the sea or slaighters them like sheep.
Bluntly put the Islamic faith in its most peverted form is seen as a force to destroy the crusaders (the west) and encompass the whole world under their iron fisted rule. Life is not reveered as it is in the west and Revenge is a very real part of thier faith. Unfortunatly the civilized muslims have to fight to reclaim their faith that has been so grossly peverted, but its an incredibly uphill battle.
Thease are horrible reason to go to war, but hardly worth avoiding....they will have to be confronted eventually.
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Old 01-13-2004, 16:21 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Thease are horrible reason to go to war, but hardly worth avoiding....they will have to be confronted eventually.
I agree with you, and as you said we could have avoided WW2 by doing something at an earlier point, same situation here, although I doubt this will lead to a world war.
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Old 01-18-2004, 12:01 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Danish Army is now saying that these shells do NOT contain blister agent as originally suspected.
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Old 01-19-2004, 18:18 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I don't think I like the tests they're using to discover these weapons.
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Old 01-19-2004, 18:32 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Because they are giving false positives or because they are not finding the WMD?

My main concern is that people are rushing into snap judgements either because of poltical pressure or because they have a desire to make the news. The reality is that the invasion has happened and so finding WMD now or in 6 months time matters not. I would rather know the truth than the spin.
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Old 01-19-2004, 18:34 PM   #25 (permalink)
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What bothers me is that he was KNOWN to have all of these weapons, claims he destroyed them, yet NEVER documented that destruction.

Why the complete secrecy in their destruction?
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Old 01-19-2004, 18:55 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Well one load of thinking out of the "experts" is that the west knew he had the weapons, Saddam knew he had the weapons, but the scientists actually making them knew that they didn't because their programmes were shot due to the efforts of the international community.

The thinking behind the WMD scientists was telling Saddam they were failing might be a bad "career" move. Telling him that they were on track might only become an issue if he ever tried to use them. And with the world watching that wasn't going to happen unless Iraq was invaded, by which time, hopefully, it wouldn't matter.

All seems a bit far fetched to me.

My favourite load of speculation is that Iraq had not had the will or means to restart their programmes after GW1. The inspectors were close enough to spot them, they didn't have the money or whatever.

However they let it be known that they did have WMD. This would deter Iraq's neighbours as Iraq was too weak to defend herself by any other means. Problem was that Iraq's deception (that it had stuff it didn't) was too good and the world was convinced by it and TBH wanted to believe it. Then they couldn't prove to have destroyed something they didn't have!
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Old 01-19-2004, 18:58 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Another theory I've heard....

Is that Saddam Hussein actually dismantled his weapons, but kept it a secret so that he would not appear weak in the face of his enemies (like the Iranians) and continue to have some leverage over them.
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Old 01-19-2004, 19:05 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Trooth
Because they are giving false positives
Yes, because of the false positives. I don't care about WMDs myself, never have and probably never will. I don't support any of the war on terror, or any war for that matter, by what weapons the enemy has available. I do care about the troops and civilians that need to know what they're dealing with, however.
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Old 01-19-2004, 19:17 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Ironman
Another theory I've heard....

Is that Saddam Hussein actually dismantled his weapons, but kept it a secret so that he would not appear weak in the face of his enemies (like the Iranians) and continue to have some leverage over them.
Isn't that the same as my favourite

Ah well, time will tell. At this rate someone is gonna be holding up a three month old cheese sandwich and claiming a bioweapon
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Old 01-20-2004, 01:07 AM   #30 (permalink)
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If Saddam could be found, in spite of all the efforts of his people to hide him safe. the WMD which is not one entity as is Saddam would have surely been discovered long ago!

I don't think that those who are searching for them would be so incompetent. They sure would have found them.
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"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA
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