Tronic

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Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
-Touch The Sky With Glory

Confed999

Nice of Murtha to convict them without an investigation, charges, or a trial.

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No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

Tronic

true... the investigations are still going on... just have to wait for the results...

Anon

He's probably already seen the testimony.

And it appears as if they probably did it.

Confed999

Did it, or didn't, it is not his place to say, and it is definately not his place to use it for further politicization.

Anon

I agree with that for sure.

astralis

confed,

whose place is it, then?

Confed999

Politicians have no place in the enforcement of laws, declaring charges, or judging at the trials, of the common citizen or soldier of the United States. Murtha is playing politics, and being an *** hole, nothing more.

astralis

but the man's not judging anything (legally). his words don't mean the marines in question will necessarily be convicted, or freed.

so a politician runs his mouth off...what's new? at least, as m21 pointed out, murtha is most likely correct in what he said.

Tronic

but he's not the one responsible for breaking such news to the public... You think he cares about the Iraqis or the Marines??? No, all he cares about are the votes...

Shek

When he states that the Haditha incident is the My Lai of Iraq, then he's judging and comparing. Let's not forget how the Sites video sparked a bunch of nothing over the insurgent that was killed in the mosque in Fallujah. My gut feeling on this one is that the Marines most likely committed misconduct. To what extent, we'll see, but all the facts just aren't out. However, Murtha goes much further than that and describes it as an execution. We'll just have to wait and see, but Murtha is stuck in Vietnam IMO, and a liability.

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"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

InfiniteDreams

“Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged.”
Abraham Lincoln

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The purpose of all war is ultimately peace. - Saint Augustine
For it tis' the doom of men that they forget. - Merlin the Magician
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

reeson

My letter ran in today's Washington Times. See below:

Our Values Will Prevail

Reports concerning the alleged massacre of Iraqi civilians at the hands of U.S. Marines have created quite a firestorm in the media, and in the United States Congress as well. Most of the headlines that I have read have convicted the Marine unit in question while official investigations are still not complete.

Many people have the initial inclination to be skeptical of the U.S. military’s ability to police itself, but I am not one of them. As a member of the U.S. military, I believe that the investigation will be conducted fairly and completely, and that those guilty of crimes will be punished while those who are innocent will be exonerated. I believe this because all members of our armed forces live their lives as professionals, committed to specific core values and ethical standards that guide us to do what is right, both legally and morally.

Of course, there are incidents of atrocities in virtually every conflict involving American military forces. But these are isolated incidents and are not representative of the quality of character found in the vast majority of uniformed personnel. While we may find out that the allegations of murder and cover-up are substantiated, we have to have faith in the magnificent men and women of our armed forces who will ensure that ultimately we will do what is right. We have to have faith that our values will prevail.

In the Army, we use the acronym LDRSHIP for our core values: Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage. These values influence every action we take, both in peace and in war. Violations of these values are not acceptable and thus not tolerated. The Marines have a similar set of core values: Honor, Courage and Commitment. A quick scan of the website www.usmcpress.com provides insightful details on these values and reinforces the high standard the American people expect.

The first Marine value, Honor, “…requires each Marine to exemplify the ultimate standard in ethical and moral conduct.” Further, “Each Marine must cling to an uncompromising code of personal integrity, accountable for his actions and holding others accountable for theirs.” For Courage, the website states “Courage is moral strength, the will to heed the inner voice of conscience, the will to do what is right regardless of the conduct of others.” These values define the character of each individual Marine, even if some may have failed to follow them.

In some cases, our military justice system may have been slow to respond. But it does ultimately respond. From the conviction of Lieutenant Calley for the My Lai massacre, to the convictions resulting from the Abu Ghraib scandal and the conviction of an Army sergeant for the rape and murder of a child in Kosovo, and from the exoneration of Lieutenant Pantano for the murder of two Iraqis to the support of the Marine corporal who shot a wounded insurgent in a mosque in Fallujah, there has been justice.

In this case, as well, there will be justice. There will be justice because those of us who serve, almost without exception, believe that the people and the nation we protect are more important than any one of us individually, and more important than any group of us collectively. We have dedicated ourselves to protect and serve this nation and its people, often at the cost of our lives. We will continue to do so and will only tolerate those among us who are willing to live by our values.

CPT Greg Reeson
United States Army
Fort Lee, Virginia

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gr

Hari_Om

As an Indian, I would truly like to be understanding.

But I am given no choice when I have to read the drivel about the excessive use of force by the Indian Armed forces dished out by the US State Department practically every year.

Reciprocity does rule.

Would not using Airpower by way of an AC 130 on a building to suppress terrorists in Birmingham, Alabama be excessive use of force?

So why is it alright in Ishaqi, Baghdad ?

How many instances in a counter insurgency war in Jammu & Kashmir have you come across the Indian Armed Forces using indiscriminate weapons ie : either Air Power or for that matter Artillery to meet a counter insurgency objective?

If none, why the drivel from the State Department’s annual report.

Perhaps the difference is that one is an occupation Army the other is not, so one can afford to be blasé about civilian deaths. To be entirely specific the Indian Army does nor operate as an Army of occupation.

People who throw stones should not live in glass houses.

I am OK with people who do not throw stones.

So can I hear from the American’s here why their State department is wrong as ……………?

Confed999

Then don't read it, it doesn't change anything anyway.
You mean if it were just like in Iraq? The terrorists firing morters, RPGs and MGs into crowds of school children? I could see the military being called out for that, otherwise it's a police action.
Not enough police to take care of the above situation. Iraq is currently a military action.
Justification of their expense accounts?
Could be why we usually build with concrete and wood.
It's a government agency...