Cop in the Hood

**sourkraut115** · 14 Jul 08,, 21:07

sorry....Counter-Insurgency. The beginning of the thread was linking police work to current operations in Iraq.

**moskos** · 14 Jul 08,, 23:03

Though I didn't know them, we all owe police officers like Winder and Byrd are deepest respect. I'm happy I got out in one piece. I can't say the same for too many of my friends.

Speaking of my police friends, many of them tell me I'm a commie, too. But I'm not. But they think anybody to the left of Rush Limbaugh is a commie. And that includes the majority of Americans. I’m just a Democrat who believes in cities, universal health care, and drug regulation. If that makes me a commie, so be it.

I agree that Baltimore cops won’t learn much from my book about how things are on the streets. But really, what are they expecting to learn? I’m not pretending to know anything that Baltimore Cops don’t already know, probably better than me. I’m just able to write a book about it.

No matter, I think some of the why-the-war-on-drugs-has-failed part should be interesting even to police. And don't forget, many police officers--in quite safe suburbs, for instance--have no idea how policing works in places like Baltimore. They've never cleared a corner tougher than skate-rats at the 7-11 parking lot.

I also think that we as police officers forget how little non-police officers know. I mean, we know "they don't know anything." But we forget just how much we know that they don't. I'm constantly amazing at how interested people about the mundane details of the police job. The little stupid things (as a teacher, nobody ever asks me how it is to grade final exams)... I mean, I felt proud when I could go into ECU and fill out all those forms correctly. But how do you make boring paperwork interesting to read about? It’s not easy. Hopefully I succeeded.

And too many police either can’t or won’t accurately portray the job to civilians. So it's left to B.S. TV shows and movies who always show cops as corrupt and evil.

I try and show how the average cop goes about his or her job and daily life. Because I think the average cop is pretty heroic. I remember once, in the station, I talked to a young kid who was being arrested when gunshots broke out (in one of those “courts” in I think 322 post). I heard the cop shielded this kid with his body. I had the kid one-on-one and asked him if this really happened. He said yes. I told him to think about that. That a cop maybe saved your life. And at the very least was willing to risk his life for your life right after arresting you. Think about the next time you pretend to hate the police.

Anyway, my book, like any honest portrayal of police, will show some of the warts. But I think there’s a greater good in simply showing the public how dangerous the job can be, how much skill it requires, how poorly paying, and how dedicated and professional (often beyond rational reason) police officers are to the communities they work in and sometimes die for.

**sourkraut115** · 14 Jul 08,, 23:45

actually, I haven't seen anything that made me believe you are an actual commie (I'm still on chapter 3, only started yesterday). She is more of a reactionary than I am... I approach things from what I personally think of as a true conservative view point; meaning what I construe to be original Western liberalism with a lowercase L. I don't believe in universal health care, but I could probably be sold on legalizing drugs (to an extent; PCP and meth are really bad stuff).

As for Limbaugh, he isn't so bad; actually he seems to be one of the few of his ilk that actually thinks about his message and remains somewhat consistent. Hannity drives me nuts.

As for policing, you are dead on; its either BS or boring, except for the things that are incredible screw ups. Luckily, I was prepared for that by an even more screwed up monolithic government agency, the Army, which I happen to love. I can offer only a few differences: on 832 post, I had "citizens" (AKA the victim class), and actually a very small "criminal" population. Other posts in the sector varried considerably. I also had large pockets of white people, who seemed to enjoy victimhood to some extent and who certainly gave lie to any wayward notions of racial superiority anyone might have had. Of course, in a post like that, burglary, stolen autos, larcenies (mainly from auto), and juvenile and domestic crimes are common; the effects of drug use and drug-related violence are usually secondhand (more OD DOA's than corner shootings). That said, immediately to the north was the Westside ghetto, so I had to change modes frequently from "almost a county cop" to "ghetto cop", to something in between.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the book. I think you have explained things pretty well for people who don't have a clue, and while I would ordinarily have some sort of technical quibble by now, I haven't come up with one yet.

**Shek** · 15 Jul 08,, 07:13

Originally Posted by moskos

Forgive my ignorance, but what's COIN? I imagine Community Oriented something or other.

COunterINsurgency. Our friends on the other side of the pond and beyond will refer to it as CI.

**sourkraut115** · 17 Jul 08,, 00:43

okay, I finished the book today. A quick read, and it should probably be a standard textbook for the the BPD Academy (which, as he points out, is not a particularly elite institution; neither very academic nor solidly paramilitary).

I find myself agreeing with most of the author's conclusion; I may not totally agree on drug legalization, but the points he makes are very valid, and I do believe that it is worthy of consideration rather than outright dismissal. The description of the normal duties of a BPD patrol officer is pretty accurate; the only thing he misses to some extent is the business of the "outlying" districts, which blend "ghetto", working-class, semi-suburban, and even upper-class neighborhoods. That experience might prove valuable in deciding on the overall utility of increasing foot patrols. A sector in the Eastern probably could be patrolled by a dozen foot officers, a couple of sector cars, an a sergeant (a marked increase over five sector cars and a sergeant); but a sector in the Northeast, Southwest, Southern, or Northern might need two or three dozen officers to provide adequate foot patrols. I do think selectively deploying permanent foot posts in specific areas, backed up by sector units, is a better idea than an "all-motorized" concept, but foot patrol cannot take on full general police service without increasing the department exponentially. In suburban and rural areas, of course, there is even more limited practicality in foot patrols.

The only technical quibble that I have is in the notes to Chapter 1, where Moskos alleges that the BPD switched from the 9mm (Glock 17) to a .45 pistol; we actually switched to the .40 S&W Glock 22 in 2001; I was in the last class to qualify with the old 9mm. Otherwise, it's a pretty good read (and I finally got my wife to read beyond the first chapter, too).

I already asked on another board, but I'm pretty sure that "Officer Bricknell" is also known as "Gotti" (also not his real name). I had already guessed as much from the description of the bike arrests, which were once his forte (he is now medically retired, sadly) but when I checked the author's site I saw his picture, which might well confirm my suspicion.

Anyway, I look forward to more of Mr. Moskos' writing in the future.

**moskos** · 17 Jul 08,, 04:33

Thanks for the kind words. It is indeed a quick read (but that's good, right?).

I'm sorry about the .40/.45 error. I tried to be really careful about those kinds of things! But since I wasn't there for that, I had to rely on others.

I can't get into who's who in the book for ethical reasons. But I can tell you it's not "Gotti." But he would certainly know who it is.

**sourkraut115** · 17 Jul 08,, 10:58

Okay, good enough for me. At least I now know where he got the idea from (and "bike on the sidewalk" is as good or better than "bike without a light"). Anyway, I hope the book gets wider readership... it was worth it.

**Equilibrium** · 30 Jul 08,, 17:07

Thank for bring this up, I'll bring my father's attention to it. He's a 30 year veteran of the City of Miami Police Department. During that time, he witnessed everything from large scale riots, the conditions that led to the establishment of its SWAT team, the Cocaine Cowboys era and the dawn of community policing to today's department.

We've spoken frequently about the effect philosophy community policing in the early 90's had on a traditional department that viewed law enforcement in the post 1960's era terms.

**Shek** · 07 Sep 08,, 18:46

Pete,

I finished reading the book and enjoyed it. This isn't a surprise since you touch on four topics that deal directly with my academic interests.

1. Looking at economic incentives (the drug war)
2. Ethnography
3. COIN (you don't address this, but COIN is very much like policing except with a bigger stick)
4. Profession vs. Bureaucacy (if you haven't read Abbott's System of Professions, your chapter on discretion vs. explicit enforcement of the law is directly related to this topic; if officers aren't allowed discretion, then you become simply a bureaucracy)

I don't know what direction your research is taking you now, but you could follow this book in so many different directions.