Thread: Our honored Olympic guests

Originally Posted by Ray

And that my brother got his US citizenship by selling Indian secrets is very much in line, what?

Where is your sense of British justice?

Yeaung,

Don't give that BS that China is not a Communist country.

Another instance of pious platitudinous cooing to deflect!

How do you define communism?
China is of course not a communist country. I don't think anyone would think China is still a communist country.

There is nothing like totalitarianism or communism (a particular kind of totalitarianism) in China. What China has is authoritarianism or soft authoritarianism. The human right condition varies from area to area, but is overall not as bad as you think.

Many if not most Chinese are not 'domisticated', not pigs, not animals, not robots, not serfs, not indoctrinated slaves, and don't think China as a people is culturally superior to other peoples. I wonder where your information is from. The Indian military indoctrination? You served and got wounded for your own country, so you have my respect. But I guess this also explains why you still haven't got banned here. A newbie who posted something like 'CHina got a lot of gold medals and India got zero' was banned, but you are still here!

Originally Posted by dave lukins

[B]


I thought you already had call Ray a Racist

Yes, sorry about that. I should say 'another racist statement'.

Before Guests Arrive, Beijing Hides Some Messes
About the wall going up all along the marathon route.

An extract:

Sun Ruonan’s ancestors opened a bakery on the axis south of Tiananmen Square in the 1840s. The city tried to tear down the building last year to plant grass and ornamental shrubs beside the Olympic marathon route. Ms. Sun and her younger sister, Ruoyu, an Australian citizen, refused to vacate.

Last Tuesday, Ms. Sun, 57, sat alone in the dining room of the restaurant, surrounded by her cats. Festive paper lanterns hung in the dining room, which smelled of cat litter and decay. It was 4 p.m., and Ms. Sun was still in her pajamas.

“I don’t really want to oppose the government,” she said, breaking into tears. “For those of us who have lived through the Cultural Revolution, this life is like heaven.”

The city has bullied her to leave. One night last year, a bulldozer slammed into the building. Neighbors are paid to keep watch over her, and they notify the police when she has guests. Ms. Sun said officials pressed her doctor into refusing to give her care.

Her building is falling apart. The government, for the sake of appearances, has put up scaffolding with green netting around it. As the runners pass her home in August, it will be easy for spectators to miss the posters, begging for help, taped to the door.

“I’m hanging here like a nail,” she said.

I say, is this really in our honour? I dare say no one would care if they passed a few dilapidated buildings on the way.

Also as a general question to our chinese posters, what happens if you do a search for "Tiananmen Square" or some such out of party favour thing? All you fellas seem to be out here arguing back and forth so I suppose it can't be too restrictive. Still, is there some kind of guideline on what you can talk about?

Originally Posted by chankya

Before Guests Arrive, Beijing Hides Some Messes
About the wall going up all along the marathon route.

An extract:




I say, is this really in our honour? I dare say no one would care if they passed a few dilapidated buildings on the way.

Also as a general question to our chinese posters, what happens if you do a search for "Tiananmen Square" or some such out of party favour thing? All you fellas seem to be out here arguing back and forth so I suppose it can't be too restrictive. Still, is there some kind of guideline on what you can talk about?

I can't speak for the Mainland Chinese. I guess the society supports this kind of policy. However, the government should give the victims more compensation.

Originally Posted by yeung3939

A newbie who posted something like 'CHina got a lot of gold medals and India got zero' was banned, but you are still here!

The difference is that the Brigadier has been here very long and a very strong contributor be he right or wrong (and he has been wrong). In fact, the Brigadier was banned but everyone was extremely unhappy with that decision and it took alot of work from all sides (more so from the Brigadier) to work things out.

However, newbies are given chances to prove themselves (like you have) and they are judged extremely harsh mainly because WAB is not a knitting circle. We demand intelligent conversations and for you to stand your ground ... which you are doing extremely well.

yeung,

Unlike what the Colonel has written, I don't hold the long tenure as any qualification for preferential treatment. In fact, as the good Colonel and others know, I have canvassed for those who get banned for their thoughts, no matter how unpalatable they might be to the views held.

However, it is disgraceful conduct to insult anyone's family member, who is not a member of the board and that too without any facts to support so. I am not too sure how much of the English language you know, but it is what is known as slander and scurrilous!

As far as my being banned, it was due to difference of cultural interpretation of a certain issue. It is a closed chapter.

It may interest you to know that, when asked, I expressly said that Zeng should not be banned.

uncle ray,
zeng did not insult anyone, he just tried to use an example to illustrate that voting may not be the most basic human right.
i have no problem if he use my sibling as examples, but if this is being considered a huge insult in indian culture, you could just simply tell him and warn him not to do again.
it is real unnecessary to blow it out of proportion.

Originally Posted by Ray

yeung,

Unlike what the Colonel has written, I don't hold the long tenure as any qualification for preferential treatment. In fact, as the good Colonel and others know, I have canvassed for those who get banned for their thoughts, no matter how unpalatable they might be to the views held.

However, it is disgraceful conduct to insult anyone's family member, who is not a member of the board and that too without any facts to support so. I am not too sure how much of the English language you know, but it is what is known as slander and scurrilous!

As far as my being banned, it was due to difference of cultural interpretation of a certain issue. It is a closed chapter.

It may interest you to know that, when asked, I expressly said that Zeng should not be banned.

Mr Ray,

I really respect you. As a Hong Konger, I will never understand what the army life is like. I will also never understand why people are willing to die for their own countries.

Nevertheless, don't attack Chinese categorically. There are good guys and bad guys in every country. No big deal! The communist party often violates basic human rights, so it must be condemned. The bottom line is that China is not as bad as you think. All educated Chinese know reform of some kind is needed. However, everyone is concerned with whether this will hinder the current economic growth which hopefully will get rid of poverty in China. There may not be a conflict between economic development and human rights+democracy, and I believe there isn't. However, from the East Asian experience, we can see the most successful economies, namely Singapore, South Korea and Japan, all underwent different degree of authoritarianism when they built their economy. The CCP will not be here for ever, but at the moment I'd rather focus on improvement of material life first. Responsiveness to and respect of public demand can be achieved without institutionalized democratic mechanisms. Hong Kong and Singapore are good examples. This has nothing to do with 'robots', 'serfs', 'domesticated'. I just want something practically beneficial and feasible.

Originally Posted by luffaman

uncle ray,
zeng did not insult anyone, he just tried to use an example to illustrate that voting may not be the most basic human right.
i have no problem if he use my sibling as examples, but if this is being considered a huge insult in indian culture, you could just simply tell him and warn him not to do again.
it is real unnecessary to blow it out of proportion.

Voting is seen by not only theorists but also voters themselves as instrumental. True, protection of this secondary right can help the protection of primary rights (e.g. personal safety, freedom, formal equality), but those ends can be achieved without voting. And if those ends were achieved without voting, people wouldn't necessarily want voting. I have seen too much of this in Hong Kong.

Hong Kong is actually enjoying the benefits of democracy without democracy. Extremely low corruption rate, government's general responsiveness to public demand, almost complete freedom of information and speech (there is not even a treason law), good economy, minimal governmetn intervention in private life.....

As per the Brigadier's request, I will not ban Zeng but Zeng, be advised, I was extremely insulted that you refer to the Brigadier's brother who was not able to defend himself. That was low, extremely low. You've brought the Brigadier's brother into this debate without context and extremely without merit which means without facts.

You will NOT do this again ... and if I were you, I apologize at least to the Brigadier's brother whom you've brought into this debate without his knowledge, his permission, and especially without his situation.

And this is a personal warning. You know crap all what it is required to become an American citizen. No one ... and I mean no one gets a short cut, not even spies ... and especially not spies.

Originally Posted by Zeng

It seems that we got grandma and grandpa cheerleaders here

And apparently we got a babbling idiot on the forum whose presence has been reported as missing in a village in China.

Looks like WAB has a new village idiot. The question has now become: Do we keep him as to entertain us for amusement value or to help the Chinese village's collective IQ grow exponentially as a humanitarian gesture?

Originally Posted by yeung3939

How do you define communism?
China is of course not a communist country. I don't think anyone would think China is still a communist country.

There is nothing like totalitarianism or communism (a particular kind of totalitarianism) in China. What China has is authoritarianism or soft authoritarianism. The human right condition varies from area to area, but is overall not as bad as you think.

Many if not most Chinese are not 'domisticated', not pigs, not animals, not robots, not serfs, not indoctrinated slaves, and don't think China as a people is culturally superior to other peoples. I wonder where your information is from. The Indian military indoctrination? You served and got wounded for your own country, so you have my respect. But I guess this also explains why you still haven't got banned here. A newbie who posted something like 'CHina got a lot of gold medals and India got zero' was banned, but you are still here!

What does the letter CCP stand for?

Chinese Democratic Party?

Let that be for a starter?

What is Communism?

Communism is the idea of a free society with no division or alienation, where humanity is free from oppression and scarcity. The ideology dictates that all private property is brought under community control.

However, to make people hand over their property to the community, was against the basic tenet of human instincts and hence repressive measures had to be taken. So far, so good. However, this repression became institutionalised, where the individual became merely a tool for furthering the State’s diktat and practically became a ‘non person’.

While as policy all were equal, yet dissent was not allowed.

The individual lost his right and yet the State professed equality, when in actuality the State became Supreme. And this ‘power of the State’ or as they soft soaped it with the mellifluous obfuscation – Power to the People! And who were the people? The Party and the Party apparatchik!

Power being heady and in a Communist society where it was the sole avenue for individual freedom, power struggles naturally occurred. Communist history, be it in any Communist country, is full of such incident, starting with Trotsky and all the way to the Gang of Four.

To ensure that such dissent or challenge to the Leader does not recur, the solution was simple – Purge i.e. kill them. Again, such a mode is replete in the Communist history.

Thus, while in theory, it is said to be the ideal state where the people are supposed to be Supreme (Dictatorship of the People, as they say), in practice, it was the Dictatorship of the Leader.

And to keep a hold on power and prevent individualism and rebellious activities, the State machinery ensures draconian means to keep all in line. Again, there are enough of cases in point in the history of Communism, including in China.

Since there were no dissent permitted and there were draconian laws including death, gulags, education through labour (euphemism for gulags and free labour), the people demurred meekly and were thus robotic, responding to the stimuli provided and prodded by the State. A daily dose of propaganda and people start believing so. Dr Joseph Goebbels proved this reflexive human failing! Check your newspapers and your TV – it is all hallelujahs of the State and nothing ever adverse! That is indoctrination!

Even as I write, the news that is pouring in is that though there is a state of art newsroom for reporters of the world to cover the Olympics, the Chinese Govt has imposed censorship of sites, which otherwise is available freely in the rest of the world. Mind Control! Making even foreign correspondent domesticated i.e. conforming to the State’s diktat and news handouts! There is no defence to the attempt of making people robotic and domesticated!!

To that extent you are right that China is not a Communist State as none have ever been in history. These countries have merely used utopia and fooled and are fooling the people and subjugating the basic instinct of man – Individual Freedom and the Right of Choice.

As far as the Hans feeling their culture is superior, I have posted enough to prove so. The very fact that they believe China is the ‘Middle Kingdom’ Zhōngguó while peoples in the four cardinals were called Eastern Yi, Southern Man, Western Rong and Northern Di respectively is enough of an indicator.

Foreigners are known as yangguizi (a derogatory term meaning "foreign devil") and dabizi ("big nose").

Please do not worry about my service to my country or being wounded. Everyone does service for one’s country and that is nothing extraordinary. As far as being wounded, it is a part of the risks of the profession I was in. Again nothing great! I should thank my stars I was not dead. That is great!!

Originally Posted by luffaman

uncle ray,
zeng did not insult anyone, he just tried to use an example to illustrate that voting may not be the most basic human right.
i have no problem if he use my sibling as examples, but if this is being considered a huge insult in indian culture, you could just simply tell him and warn him not to do again.
it is real unnecessary to blow it out of proportion.

You may not bother about your sibling, I do.

Please tell me, now that you are in the US, how did you get there? Boat people fleeing repression or have you sold some Chinese secret or are you there sent by CCP to operate as a spy or a sleeper agent?

I don't find any delight in writing this, but just to let you feel how it is when unsubstantiated and malicious allegation and slander is hurled at a person and at least you are here to take it on!

Forgive me for asking, but it is a wonderment how after so many years suddenly China is allowing a whole lot of people to go abroad and as someone said only the Party apparatchiks relatives are allowed!!

Communists do not allow people to go abroad lest they bring in new anti Communist ideas and upset their apple cart! Only those whose loyalty to the Party is guaranteed were allowed.

And that too, they keep a part of the immediate family back in the country as ransom!

I have interacted with Communists including such greats as Igor Tamm and I have even said Hi to Chou (but that is not knowing) and I live in a Communist run state and so I am not totally ignorant of Communism or their ways!

Even our Speaker of the Parliament who upheld the Constitution and not the Party Constitution has been expelled from the Party. That is audacious a thought that the Party is above the Constitution! It is outright sabotaging the Constitution!

Constitution is what ensures the Power to the People. They have proved that they care a tuppence for Power to the People and all they care is the Power of the Party and it petty apparatchiks!

Communism is a hoax perpetuated on the People and once they seize power, they use goon power to hold on. I see it in my State which is Communist for ages!!

I will say this of Zeng that some his posts are real informative.

However, I was shocked that he could do so!

He did not appear to be of that type.

Colonel,

I don't require an apology.

Your post has cleared the air!