indianguy4u

man what one should say about french man they suck man i don't understand their logic

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/index.html

France to extend help to Pakistan in N-tech

Envoy says two countries discussing sale of Mirage-2000

By Muhammad Saleh Zaafir

ISLAMABAD: France is engaged in discussions with Pakistan about cooperation in nuclear technology after a lapse of about 30 years. As the confidence increases, Paris will be prepared to provide assistance to Islamabad to meet its power needs.

The two countries re-established contacts in a multilateral interaction held in Paris recently where representatives of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) were also present. French Ambassador to Pakistan Pierre Charasse disclosed this to The News in an exclusive interview covering wide range of issues here.

He said France is prepared to help Pakistan in developing non-conventional means of production of power including its generation through nuclear and hydel sources. Without going into details of the deal that was called off between Pakistan and France under US pressure in the past, the French ambassador said Pakistan’s name must be cleared first with reference to nuclear proliferation and as the country’s image improves private sector in France will be prepared to cooperate with Pakistan to fulfil its increasing needs of power generation. France appreciates Pakistan’s genuine needs of having more and more power in wake of boosting economic activities. France has already helped Pakistan in developing a hydel power generation unit in Kashmir with active assistance of another country, the ambassador said.

Replying to another question, he said France is cooperating with Pakistan in space technology besides a number of other fields by providing it with advanced technology. A group of 25 French companies on a visit to Pakistan recently returned with a positive impression. A big unit of car manufacturing is being built in Pakistan where the famous Renault car will be manufactured by availing Nissan company’s base. Renault has already purchased Nissan.

Renault will be manufacturing fuel-efficient and useful cars for Pakistani market that would be comparatively cheaper, he said. Pierre Charasse said Franch-Pakistan cooperation in the field of defence is progressing satisfactorily. France is engaged in discussions with Pakistan on sale of its state-of-the-art fighter multi-role high-tech aircraft Mirage-2000.

The ambassador said French ultra-modern aircraft, Rafale, is not being discussed for sale to Pakistan although this plane has already been sold to some of the Middle Eastern countries. Responding another question, the envoy said a third submarine for Pakistan Navy would be completed under transfer of technology agreement by the end of next year. The submarine has been fully built in Pakistan by local engineers under the supervision of French experts.

Pierre Charasse was satisfied with the exiting ties between the two countries in various fields and termed them stable. He said the attack on French technicians in 2002 caused a deep dive in relations but since last year these have not only normalised but also improved a lot.

"Pakistan must strive to improve its image abroad. If you watch international media, the information pouring out from different parts of Pakistan, especially Karachi, is often regarding terrorism, violation and killings. It has been somewhat controlled now but still need to be fully rectified," the envoy said.

When asked, the ambassador said French President Jacques Chirac has been invited by President Pervez Musharraf to visit Pakistan. The visit is yet to be scheduled. However, the French foreign minister would be visiting Pakistan in the later half of the year.

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platinum786

Interesting.....they are helping out with nuclear power, the chinese are also building a power plant for us....at elast we should get a constant supply of electricity then!

Aryan

"although this plane has already been sold to some of the Middle Eastern countries"

Since when?

indianguy4u

I think this question must be asked to that jang reporter who reported it

Aryan

The reporter isn't a military reporter, so I doubt he'd know much about the Rafale, let alone its status in international military exports.

"The ambassador said French ultra-modern aircraft, Rafale, is not being discussed for sale to Pakistan although this plane has already been sold to some of the Middle Eastern countries."

The author clearly stated from whom he obtained the information from.

Blademaster

All I can say is that if the French goes with this, they will be shooting themselves in the foot. They can kiss goodbye to their defense industry since India will never buy French weapons again or for that matter, buy Airbus planes again.

Karthik

I wonder if this has got anything to do with IA opting for Boeing instead of Airbus for that $6 billion purchase.

I mean the French ambassador here was pretty sore about it.

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konkerer

You have to question the authenticity of the report. Jang publishes lots of garbage reports.

Aryan

To be honest, I can't really see what France can offer Pakistan. China are going to help us set up an entire 300/600mw nuclear reactor at Chashma, and I seriously doubt its going to require any French assitance.

As for non-nuclear power, there are plenty of alternatives to French companies, the recipient will be the company offering the best deal.

We certainly won't be purchasing Mirage-2000s, and I sincerely doubt France would offer them, especially considering India are planning to buy more of them.

ajaybhutani

i think its more of an effort from pakistani side trying to bring in french so as to help get better deals and faster deals with china. Further fear is arising from the fact that chineese are now looking towards india and if things go right between india and china in a decade or so paksitan might loose its nearly only supplier.

indianguy4u

hi,
I don't think we r so idiots to go for chinese weapons which suck big time .
Also french r jacking up prices of their weapons 2 much really . eg scoroene deal was for 1.8billion $ & now its is quoted at more tha 3 billion $

http://www.indiadefence.com/Scor_sub.htm

INDIA DEFENCE CONSULTANTS

WHAT'S HOT? –– ANALYSIS OF RECENT HAPPENINGS


DCN FRANCE TO BUILD SIX SCORPENE SUBMARINES

FOR INDIAN NAVY AT MAZAGON DOCK LTD.

An IDC Report from DEFEXPO 2002



New Delhi, 24 February 2002



A model of the submarine displayed at the DCN stall at Defexpo 2002

Dramatic things are finally happening for the submarine arm of the Indian Navy. The Project 75 cat is now out of the bag and the long drawn out negotiations with France have resulted in the media just confirming that DCN has bagged the 6 SCORPENE SUBMARINE DEAL for some $1.8 billion. These 6 underwater machines will be built at Mazagon Dock Ltd., which built the earlier and similar HDW boats.

The shipyard and the Navy are excited as media also reported India’s nuclear Akula 2 submarine is getting ready in Russia, with a skeleton crew already in Russia on the pretext of training for the ATV. This is the acronym for India’s nuclear boat being built by the DRDO with help from many agencies like Mazagon Dock, Larsen and Tubro, BHEL, Midhani, BEL and TATAs. News is also ripe that Larsen and Tubro have teamed up with the Russians and offered to build the AMUR class submarines at Hazira where they have excellent welding and reactor making facilities.

The Scorpene was designed to be capable of taking a small nuclear reactor and so in the long term the Scorpene is a good idea for the Indian Navy, which will need to replace its submarines in six years. This should have been done earlier but the HDW scandal derailed the Indian Navy’s ambitious plans to be self sufficient in submarines. DCN audited the HDW boat and came up with the Scorpene offer and IZAR of Italy is somewhat involved as the Scorpene is jointly built by DCN of France and Izar of Spain and each of the submarines are expected to cost around Rs. 15 billion ($320 million). India and the French-led consortium began negotiations for the Scorpene package some two years ago with New Delhi insisting on technology transfer to build the six submarines here. India was reportedly unhappy with DCN for the outright sale of one Augusta submarine PNS KHALID to arch enemy Pakistan and the transfer of technology for two more such vessels with AIP systems. Interestingly India and Pakistan in many cases like the Seakings, Mirages and British ships operate similar systems.

The history goes like this. On the basis of accumulated experience, the Spanish shipbuilder IZAR, which now includes Bazan decided in 1991 to take on its own third generation conventional submarine project that would be appropriate for the growing international market, sharing 50% of the risk with a foreign partner. Izar chose the French company DCN to do so, and the latter was very keen on the idea given the decision by the French Navy to build only nuclear submarines like the US Navy. In 1992 both shipyards, based on their long experience of working together, commenced the definition phase of a medium-sized conventional attack vessel (some 1,500 tons). The vessel was to be versatile, technologically advanced, high quality, very discrete, with high eavesdropping capability and high fire power, in addition to being available at a reasonable price. Indian ship building team has chipped in its own inputs and called it the Type 75.

The result is the “Scorpene” which offers a size/performance/quality/price ratio superior to any of the company’s competitors in the international market, such as HDW, which is a bad word in India and Kockums and the Australians have had their problems. The outstanding aspect of its concept is its versatility, since it can integrate absolutely any equipment or technology solution, in either the platform or the weapon system that he Indian Navy has specified which may be looking at the Brahmos PJ 10. Chosen by the Chilean Navy in 1998, two units are currently under construction in Spain. The “O Higgins” is due to be commissioned in 2004 and the “Carrera” in 2006, the contractually agreed calendar being scrupulously adhered to and the module building philosophy is the same that the Indian ATV project is following.

These vessels are built in four blocks, two of them by Izar in Cartagena and the other two by DCN in Cherbourg. The two built in France are the bow (torpedo chamber/bow battery chamber, control room and quarters). The Spanish build the stern (tail cone with propulsion, engine room/stern battery chamber). In the first vessel the Spanish blocks will be taken to Cherbourg where they will be assembled. The weapon system will be integrated and tested there, as will subsequent sea trials. In the case of the second it will be the reverse, the DCN blocks will be taken to Cartagena where the rest of the operation will be carried out. The Scorpene can be described as a submarine of new design that incorporates the latest advances and trends in conceptualisation and technology, but based on the principle of low cost in both the project and construction phases (through the modular system) and of operation (reduced complement and maintenance).

The vessel is appropriate for oceanic missions (50 mission days at 2,000 miles from its base), especially anti-submarine and anti-surface ship operations. The platform has a resistant hull and hydrodynamic deck with optimised teardrop shape, entirely built of especially high elasticity steel. This ensures greater operating depths. It also offers excellent speed/range, high firepower and a reduced acoustic signature with noteworthy stealth levels.

The “Scorpene’s” most notable characteristics are a total length of 61.7 metres, diameter of 6.2 surface displacement of 1.425 tons (1,565 submerged) 0.4 metre submerged stability module and more than 0.25 on the surface, and steel hull with HIES high elastic limit of over 700-Mpa. Among its performance characteristics, outstanding is the maximum operating depth (without limit to he number of cycles) greater than 300 metres, maximum submerge speed of more than 20 knots, submerged range at 100% battery usage and speed 4 knots of 134 hours/536 miles. The “Scorpene” was carefully conceived bearing habitation in mind. Its complement of 32 with the possibility of quartering six more in stowed berths as IN has more domestic crew are in one cabin for the captain, one for 5/6 officers, two for 5/6 petty officers, and one for 15 ordinary seamen. It has individual berths and lockers for everyone, 2WC, 2 showers, 4 washbasins, and three messes. The quarters area is acoustically insulated from the platform on elastic insulators and there is air conditioning in all quarters and operations areas. The “Scorpene” can operate with DSRV rescue vehicles, which the Indian Navy is hunting for.

Propulsion on the CM-2000 version of the Scorpene is carried out using a Jeumont Schneider 2,900 kW electronic engine, with fixed pitch seven blade propeller, air/water cooling and power supply from four Izar/MTU 396 12V SE 84, de 632 kW,diesel-generators at 1,700rpm, or 360 high capacity lead battery elements with tubular boards, electrolyte agitation and water-circuit junction cooling. All propulsion elements and auxiliary equipment-in two independent chambers-are mounted on elastic plus with an elastically suspended structure dry snorkel system.

Equally, the “Scorpene AM –2000 ”has been designed with an anaerobic propulsion system (AIP) MESSMA (“Autonomous Underwater Energy Module”) produced jointly by Izar and DCN, with a steam turbine that uses ethanol with liquid oxygen as its fuel in a specific chamber. The system represents a technological innovation because of its easy and safe installation and handling since it feeds from a conventional steam installation. Indian Navy has been good with Steam turbines. The system, with no depth limitations to its use, is outstanding for being very quiet The AM-2000 version trebles the “-Scorpene’s” submerged patrol time. The vessel keeps all the other exceptional operating characteristics. Its total length increases to 70metres and its submerged displacement is 1,870m.

As far as control and surveillance of the platform’s elements and handling are concerned, all the operations in any situation are centralized in the control room under the tower. The “Scorpene” manoeuvres using two prolonged rudders, in the upper and lower part of the hull, and four hydroplanes, two aft in the bow keel cross and two in the topsail. Their shapes have been studied in order to optimise maneuverability, safety and stability during high-speed operations.

The torpedo chamber in the bow allows 12 long torpedoes to be stored in the shock-resistant structure. The vessel has tubes for the standard six 533 mm torpedo launch tubes, fired by turbo-chargers with automatic handling and feed system and capable of burst firing. The tubes are fitted in the form of two bows, one on each side. In the case of the units built for Chile, the space between tubes enables stowage of a box of anchor chains so that these submarines will be bale to install an anchor to operate in ports with few mooring facilities.

The weapon system is what the Navy has chosen and the distributed architecture design can be integrated by redundant and re-configurable local area networks and could incorporate the Brahmos in a container displayed at DEFEXPO 2002. The “Scorpene”is a submarine especially designed to have a large eavesdropping capacity. Its electronic sensors include a passive long-range cylindrical sonar, interception sonar, active sonar, distributed sonar, flank antennae, high resolution sonar for detecting mines and obstacles and towed lineal antenna. It has navigation and exploration radar and a Calzoni attack periscope for SMS observation and the older HDW boats may change to these Periscopes as Kollmorgon of USA had suspended support.

The use of high elasticity steels such as H80 and HY80 that require pre-heating to 120o prior to welding, gives an idea of the complexity of manufacturing these platforms. The operation is carried out using ceramic resistor stacks controlled by special computer equipment, which at the same time regulates the quality of the welding. The welding is carried out by highly qualified professionals, with special physical aptitudes given the extreme difficulty of the operation and the Mazagon Docks has experience of this.

The Indian Navy is celebrating and in time Larsen and Tubro may build the Amurs and change the whole philosophy of defence ship building in India.

IDC complements the planners and wishes them speedy implementation and we see IZAR coming in stronger and the IN can learn a lot while Indian industry also gains.


Also those mirage r quoted at 50-60 million $ AC, while Su-30 mki mfg in India is costing 37.5 million $ AC

bull

French have a state policy of selling items to whomsoever demanding it.So cant blame them with that.

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Neo

Well, then the Jang is not the only newspaper to publish garbage; Following article was published in Hindustan Times yesterday.


Link: http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/1...1300850000.htm


Clear proliferation charges: France to Pakistan

Indo-Asian News Service

Islamabad, May 14

Pakistan must clear itself of proliferation charges before it can hope to receive civilian nuclear technology from France, the country's envoy has said.

After a lapse of three decades, France and Pakistan engaged in discussions on cooperation in civilian nuclear technology at a multilateral interaction in Paris where representatives of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) were also present.

French envoy Pierre Charasse told The News his country was prepared to help Pakistan build nuclear power generation capacity but Islamabad must first clear its name on the nuclear proliferation front.

As the country's image improves, France's private sector will be prepared to cooperate with Pakistan to fulfil its increasing energy needs, The News on Saturday quoted Charasse as saying.

Scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan, who mentored Pakistan's atomic bomb project, had last year publicly confessed to proliferating nuclear secrets to Iran, Libya and North Korea. President Pervez Musharraf "pardoned" him and has since resisted international pressure for Khan's interrogation by independent agencies.

The nuclear issue apart, "Pakistan must strive to improve its image abroad. If you watch the international media, the information pouring out from different parts of Pakistan, especially Karachi, is often regarding terrorism, violation and killings. It has been somewhat controlled now but still needs to be fully rectified," Charasse maintained.

According to him, French-Pakistan cooperation in the defence field was progressing satisfactorily.

The two countries are engaged in discussions on sale of the state-of-the-art Mirage-2000 combat jets. A third submarine for the Pakistan Navy would be completed under a transfer of technology agreement by the end of next year. The submarine has been fully built in Pakistan by local engineers under the supervision of French experts.

The submarine programme had hit a roadblock after a 2002 terror attack in Karachi killed a dozen French technicians but the situation has now gone back to normal, the envoy said.

ajaybhutani

I hope u didnt take this as an interpretation of my post. I was in no means talking about india buying arms from China. I dont see that happening.I was referrring to increased trade links between the two along with the solving of border dispute as the border dispute is the only issue. as such between the two asian giants. Once the border is solved. I dont see china much interested in paksitan for more than just as a buyer for its equipments. While india will be seen as a big trader and partner in the long run. Of course it all depends on wether the border dispute is solved properly or not. The signs are surely good as of now.

indianguy4u

well can't comment about chinese mentality , but one thing for sure they don't like us no matter what