indianguy4u

well offering ful ToT is one thing & excersising the right to produce costeffectively is another man. Also i don't think (personally) that we should go for either f-16s or f-18s b'coz firstly of f-16's ***** know every thing they are using it for last so many yrs & f-18 would be to expensive (as far my knowlegde) to produce & most imp then our foreign policy will be governed by american no need to buy them & become handicapped by it .

Also when u say that rafale & eurofighter will be costly ya u are right but u also need to understand that these r lastest fighter this side of f-22 & f-35 (the post 95 AC) while mirage 2005 will be just an upgrade of 85's tech so thats the cost of buying lastest tech. Also mind u it also means we can develope this AC (rafale & ef2000) for next 25-35 yr span while i think 2005 can at the most be upgraded for may be once or twice that means 15-20 yr span so in the long term which is better???

Narurally my answer is either rafale or EF 2000

ajaybhutani

I claim that indians can produce it much cheaper than producing it in US. But surely the comparison of producing F16 with Mig29 surely makes F16 costly as the american firms would be asking for loads of royalities /price for the ToT.

F18 are surely expensive and primarily used for the AC operations and so a good candidate for our ADS.We surely cannot afford them for the current contract (but if we can we shud go for it but with a ToT and also if the stuff like AESA ToT is provided).
F16 shud come cheap when produced in india. though the ToT cost will be high but it deserves a consideration as the machine itself is quite excellent due to the avionics it has. The main interest is the AESA radar and a possible ToT. If the increased cost can be absorbed then it will turn out to be a good deal both wrt the machine we purchase and the technology which we will get.
though a concern is the cost of ToT for stuff like AESA production facility etc shud cost more.





For Rafale and EF2000
1. Are they available and with a ToT.
2. Surely the cost will be more than or at least as much as F18.And unless a comparison of whats in offer in both machines is made a selection of Rafale/EF200 0 will be unwise.
3. Are we getting AESA etc special technologies that only teh americans rite now can offer. ?

bull

The significance of Tot as far as i am concerned is the non depencdence on US for its spares.There are times when the money/cost is not concern, but putting the bird up in the sky is!
Imagine a situation where india and pakistan has f-16s.In any future scenarios you cannot expect US to unilateraly support pakistan instead they might try to equally appease or displease both.
If they choose to displease who will get affected??? Pakistan, and not India.In such a scenario i dont think so price shudnt be that a constraint.

Its a good deterrent that both Af's will share the same platform.
I heard US had agreed to give india f-16 blk 70(customised) version.

Moreover the quality and delivery times wont lag the way it lags with Russia.

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The ones in the casinos are serious.

ajaybhutani

but rite now we are looking for a good value for money. Of course without a ToT American F16 cannot see IAF colors.

either case india wouldnt be dependent on US for spares.
Paksitan will be affected by UU sanctions wehter we buy F16 or Mig29/M2K . But for us the price of the bird is imp along with its capabilities. as we are getting these birds to fill the numbers .
I dont see it matter .India will still get a better version of F16 which can shoot down pakistan F16 any day.
Yes a Blk 70 has been offered to suit the specs of IAF.
Russians arent that bad at all. At least at the times when it matters just to get the bird in air russians havent starved us of spares but the americans surely have.

AchtungSpitFire

The lockheed offer to India and the whole offer in general is the same old part of the carrot and stick diplomacy the west has been practicing with India.

As a media analyst I was surprised at how quickly the Indian media ate up the consolation prizes and state dept. rhetoric on the F-18's/16's. This is just done to placate a population and create a sense of balance. The fact remains that the US has and will continue to support regimes democratic and or not, to suit our short term political and strategic goals.

The F-16 sale is extremely unpopular in the intelligence spectrum of the US, but day by day the collective powers of influence of the NID is waning in favour for the jarheads at the Pentagon and their puppeteers in Military industrial complex. The sad part is the american taxpayer will probably be paying for this sale to a failed state and proliferator because of a failure in imagination and reasoning.

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Samudra

Ah , Finally !
One American who has similar views as me.

maverick

Welll.. you hit the nail on the head.
It really is a win-win situation for the US because:

In case of Pakistan:

-It would give increased leverage to the US in case of a
conflict as she would "control" her frontline fighters (through spares, pilot
training etc.)

-Counter to a great extent the influence of the Chinese by becoming a MAJOR , if
not the numero uno supplier of modern weaponary once again.

-Reaffirm US "support" (talk about oxymorons...) to the pakistanis and placate an
increasingly anti-American population.


In case of India:

-Increased leverage as mentioned earlier, if India is unwise enough to buy the
planes.

-It is mostly just a chronic example of an eyewash. Offer India the F-16s too, and
if the Indians don't accept them, too bad. But it would placate to a great extent
the anger Indians feel about the sale to the Pakistanis.

-If Indians do accept the planes, point 1 + 9 billion dollars. And Hurray!! jobs for
everybody !!!


well that was my humble analysis.. btw it is my first post so plz don't hit back too hard ...

bull

What was that???oops a long one...

indianguy4u

hey guys sorry for previous post

this is same u can access that article here

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/vvs/mig29-01.htm

Asim Aquil

Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard...

Tad distasteful I know.