Army looks at tank of the future, says Arjun history - Page 2

bengalraider · 07-06-2008, 02:09 AM

the question in my mind is that by which logic is the army saying that the arjun shall be obsolete in 10yrs while the t-90 shall not? wouldn't the drdo be able to mordenise an arjun far faster than a t-90? i think the army can opt for and should opt for at least 400 arjuns that can be upgraded to mk 2 standards as the mk2 is developed.

anyways one technology the FMBT should have is hybrid power i'm thinking a hydrogen burning gas turbine that would save our army from oil crises while giving a huge boost to domestic alternative fuel industry.

Yusuf · 07-06-2008, 03:34 AM

The technologies developed for Arjun should come in handy while developing the FMBT. DRDO should not get depressed with the developments regarding the army's decision on the Arjun. They should launch a project to come good on the latest req of the army.

Yusuf · 07-06-2008, 03:47 AM

The experience, infrastructure & technologies developed for the Arjun will come in handy for the development of the FMBT. The DRDO should not be disappointed with the army's decision regarding the Arjun. It should go ahead and develop what the army wants now.

Sameer · 07-06-2008, 14:57 PM

There is nothing obsolete in the Arjun compared to the T-90. Such arguments by the IA top brass is getting old. Remember they have been forced to hold comparative trials in December vs. T-90s, they have been avoiding those for a while now. Everyone knows that there has been a lot of fish at the top brass level.

As I sad before, with so many kids of top IA officers studying in US universities without scholarships when official salaries would not permit this, you need not go to far!

Samudra · 07-06-2008, 15:25 PM

I'm disappointed and there is no defence the IA can offer for its argument. Simply disappointing and revolting.

As I said before if the IA doesnt want the Arjun because of its current logistics et al : that is closer to truth and believable. But if they want to skip ARJUN whilst buying 1000 T-90S quoting technology its a simple lie.

n21 · 07-07-2008, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yusuf

The experience, infrastructure & technologies developed for the Arjun will come in handy for the development of the FMBT. The DRDO should not be disappointed with the army's decision regarding the Arjun. It should go ahead and develop what the army wants now.

Yusuf,
That is the most important question. What does IA want?

What is the gurantee that 10 years down the line FMBT will not become "medium tech" for IA,while T-100 & T-150 are easily imported.

They have 3000 tanks to be technically replaced. They will have 1600 "high tech" T-90's. T-72 upgrades are in worse state than Arjun production.
SO what are they gonna replace the remaining 1400 with? And that too provided IA manages to get 1000 T-90's from HVF,which looks all the unlikely given that they re-ordered 350 tanks because HVF could not get it's act together!

IA armour ....a real mess!

Yusuf · 07-07-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n21

Yusuf,
That is the most important question. What does IA want?

What is the gurantee that 10 years down the line FMBT will not become "medium tech" for IA,while T-100 & T-150 are easily imported.

They have 3000 tanks to be technically replaced. They will have 1600 "high tech" T-90's. T-72 upgrades are in worse state than Arjun production.
SO what are they gonna replace the remaining 1400 with? And that too provided IA manages to get 1000 T-90's from HVF,which looks all the unlikely given that they re-ordered 350 tanks because HVF could not get it's act together!

IA armour ....a real mess!

What the IA wants is a big question. Even for the Arjun they ketp shifting the goal post.
Maybe the DRDO should start with a platform that finds acceptability as far as logistics are concerned. Right now they are citing this a major reason to reject the Arjun. So DRDO has to keep that in mind. Also collaboration with foreign partners will help as it will reduce cost and also gain more orders.

n21 · 07-07-2008, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yusuf

What the IA wants is a big question. Even for the Arjun they ketp shifting the goal post.
Maybe the DRDO should start with a platform that finds acceptability as far as logistics are concerned. Right now they are citing this a major reason to reject the Arjun. So DRDO has to keep that in mind. Also collaboration with foreign partners will help as it will reduce cost and also gain more orders.

A tank fitting IA's logistics set up would mean.. DRDO having to re-inventing T series tank components!

A tank from any source other than the Russians(provided they dont decide T series sucks and design somethign way radical) will need additional logistics setup.

By not wanting to change logistics,IA will always be Russian tank client.

Sameer · 07-07-2008, 10:09 AM

The T-90s was not even ever subjected to any test like the Arjun which is really weird. In fact the tank has been found lacking at high temp ie 45 degrees celcius which is the worst part, our current inventory of t-90s does not even have all the goodies yet. The IA top brass is corrupt, had they at least talked about logistics, it would have at least made some sense but this is absolute garbage talk. They were even unwilling to pit their t-90s vs. the arjuns and have pished it back to december. Now before the comparative trials, they are already making a decision!

sohamsri · 07-09-2008, 01:29 AM

This is SAD !!! Just when we thought the Arjun was finally going to be inducted in large numbers.....the Army comes up with new ideas

bengalraider · 07-09-2008, 06:51 AM

i say forget the indian army ,maybe thats the problem we need to stop crying about not being selected by the indian army and broaden our horizons we need to look beyond the indian army in order to build better war machines like we did with dhruv and brahmos if there is a FMBT we should be sure that it wins lots of export orders .

bengalraider · 07-09-2008, 13:39 PM

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Nation

Quote:

Tank tussle hots up
Induct 500 Arjuns: DRDO
Ajay Banerjee
Tribune News Service

New Delhi, July 8
The ongoing tussle over inducting Arjun tank in the Indian Army has become a hot topic of discussion in the past few days. After the director general Mechanised Infantry, Lt-Gen Dalip Bharadwaj, was quoted in the media saying that the Army would not buy more than 124 Arjun tanks, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has reportedly told defence minister A.K. Antony that at least 500 such tanks should be manufactured and inducted.

Senior functionaries of the DRDO have briefed the minister that capacity exists to manufacturing 500 tanks at the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi. The Army is to decide on it next set of requirements. The balance is tilted in favour of the Russian tank T-90.

Rather the DRDO has informed that 70 tanks are ready for delivery at the Avadi plant and the Army contracted number of 124 tanks would be met in the next six months. Hundreds of crores of rupees have been invested in building capacities at the Avadi plant and more tanks should be purchased. Since the tanks have shaped up very well in the just concluded summer trials there is no reason why more should not be inducted, the DRDO is learnt to have told Antony in the past few days.

Notably, the DRDO’s claim that Arjun was a good tank has been buffered by a personal letter, written by the retired Lieutenant General to the defence minister. The Chandigarh-based former Army officer has alleged that the Army was opposing the Arjun tank, as most of the top brass of the Army did not have much experience in a tank battles.

Sources said the DRDO had reacted sharply to the Army officers assertion in the media on the status of the Arjun tank and briefed the defence minister. Rather a note is being put up by the DRDO on how the tanks fared in the just concluded trials and how new systems and technologies have been incorporated. Five discrepancies had been pointed out during the winter trials in 2007 that were about the gearbox, the firing accuracy and quality control over some equipment.

It may be mentioned that the DRDO has been gunning for comparative trial between the Arjun and the Russian made T-90 tanks.

The defence minister and the ministry of defence officials are keen that such comparison be conducted. The DRDO has also reportedly informed the minister that Arjun is a contemporary tank and is far superior to T-54, T-55 and T-72 tanks used by the Army in the past.

india waits and watches as the drdo takes on the corrupt brass of the army

BEST OF LUCK TO DRDO+ ARJUN !

raj · 07-14-2008, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Sabotage suspected in Arjun tank engine; black box installed
July 13th, 2008 - 2:25 pm ICT by IANS

By Ritu Sharma
New Delhi, July 13 (IANS) The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has installed a black box-like instrument in the indigenous main battle tank (MBT) Arjun, under development for nearly 36 years, following attempts to “sabotage” its engine. The instrument was installed after the Indian Army termed the winter trial of the Arjun tank a “failure”. Attempts to sabotage the trials of the Arjun tank have failed after the black box was installed, said authorities.

“The German company Renk AG supplying the engines for the Arjun tank stumbled upon the tinkering with its engines after a complaint from the Indian Army that the tank’s gear box failed during its winter trials in Pokhran and Mahajan field range,” a DRDO official told IANS, speaking on condition of anonymity.

“Following this we have installed an instrument similar to the data recorder or black box in aircraft that would record all the information related to the engines,” he added.

The army had told a key parliamentary panel earlier this month that the Arjun tank failed to deliver at the just-concluded winter trials. The army said that many improvements had to be carried out before it was satisfied with the tank.

After the complaint, engineers from the German company were summoned to have a look at the tank while a special team was sent to Germany.

“Army officials were curious to know about the new instrument, which was installed before the summer trials, which has been successful,” the official said.

Minister of State for Defence (Production) Rao Inderjit Singh has also hinted at a conspiracy to “sabotage” the Arjun tank in April.

“The possibility of sabotage needs to be examined. The engines fitted in the tanks were German and were performing well for the past 15 years. I wonder what has happened to them overnight,” Singh had said, talking about the reported failures of the tank.

However, the army has denied the allegations of sabotage.

The startling revelation from the DRDO has come even as the Indian Army seems to have sounded the death knell for the Arjun tanks, saying it would purchase no more than the 124 it had signed a contract for.

Fourteen Arjun tanks were handed over to the Indian Army for user trials last year but were returned to the manufacturer - the Combat Vehicles Development Establishment - with a list of defects.

These included a deficient fire control system, inaccuracy of its guns, low speeds in tactical areas - principally the desert - and the tank’s inability to operate in temperatures over 50 degrees Celsius.

The army had laid down its qualitative requirement (QR) for the Arjun in 1972. In 1982, it was announced that the prototype was ready for field trials. However, the tank was publicly unveiled for the first time only in 1995.

Arjun was originally meant to be a 40-tonne tank with a 105 mm gun. It has now grown to a 50-tonne tank with a 120 mm gun.

The tank was to supplement and eventually replace the Soviet-era T-72 MBT that was first inducted in the early 1980s.

However, delays in the Arjun project, and Pakistan’s decision to purchase the T-80 from Ukraine, prompted India to order 310 T-90s, an upgraded version of the T-72, in 2001.

Of these, 186 were assembled from kits at the HVF at Avadi. An agreement was also signed for the licensed production of another 1,000 T-90s.

With the development of the Arjun delayed further, India last year signed a fresh contract with Russia to buy another 330 T-90s.

now the integrity of army procurement officers is in question. Lets see whats gona happen.

I think INDIA is waiting for some one of Ariel Sharon caliber to come and force Arjun on Indian Amry(Sharon forced Merkava I on Israeli Army, and now its the most feared tank in the world)

The One · 07-14-2008, 02:11 AM

It seems a very big scandal to induct T-90's into Indian Army.How much commission they got from Russians to do that?

So this was the reason to call off comparative trials b/w Arjun and T-90

gamercube · 07-14-2008, 03:08 AM

I think that the MoD could easily force the Arjun down the Army's throat even if they don't want it. Since our defence minister has a "clean" reputation, I hope he takes action and makes the Army accept 1400 Arjun tanks in addition to the 1600 T-90s.

07-09-2008, 01:29 AM	#25 (permalink)
sohamsri Contributor Join Date: 02-26-08 Location: New Delhi Posts: 696 Country:	This is SAD !!! Just when we thought the Arjun was finally going to be inducted in large numbers.....the Army comes up with new ideas __________________ " THe SiLEnt KNighT.

07-09-2008, 06:51 AM	#26 (permalink)
bengalraider Contributor Join Date: 06-10-08 Location: new delhi Posts: 651 Country:	i say forget the indian army ,maybe thats the problem we need to stop crying about not being selected by the indian army and broaden our horizons we need to look beyond the indian army in order to build better war machines like we did with dhruv and brahmos if there is a FMBT we should be sure that it wins lots of export orders . __________________ deodorant launcher activated

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Could Germany have won WWII	Recon_sgt	The World Wars	1975	08-20-2008 10:51 AM
Ajai Shukla: Friendly fire damages the Arjun	The One	South Asian Defense Topics	0	04-24-2008 03:10 AM
Indian Army Satisfied With Arjun MBTs Performance	Tronic	South Asian Defense Topics	55	06-03-2007 18:20 PM
Articles and links for the Military Professional	Officer of Engineers	The Staff College	115	11-20-2006 11:28 AM
Brigadier, Maruf's new BdA-InA tirade at CDF	Officer of Engineers	The Field Mess	34	08-24-2005 11:27 AM

07-06-2008, 02:09 AM	#16 (permalink)
bengalraider Contributor Join Date: 06-10-08 Location: new delhi Posts: 651 Country:	the question in my mind is that by which logic is the army saying that the arjun shall be obsolete in 10yrs while the t-90 shall not? wouldn't the drdo be able to mordenise an arjun far faster than a t-90? i think the army can opt for and should opt for at least 400 arjuns that can be upgraded to mk 2 standards as the mk2 is developed. anyways one technology the FMBT should have is hybrid power i'm thinking a hydrogen burning gas turbine that would save our army from oil crises while giving a huge boost to domestic alternative fuel industry.

07-06-2008, 03:34 AM	#17 (permalink)
Yusuf Contributor Join Date: 12-26-07 Location: Bangalore Posts: 590 Country:	The technologies developed for Arjun should come in handy while developing the FMBT. DRDO should not get depressed with the developments regarding the army's decision on the Arjun. They should launch a project to come good on the latest req of the army.

07-06-2008, 03:47 AM	#18 (permalink)
Yusuf Contributor Join Date: 12-26-07 Location: Bangalore Posts: 590 Country:	The experience, infrastructure & technologies developed for the Arjun will come in handy for the development of the FMBT. The DRDO should not be disappointed with the army's decision regarding the Arjun. It should go ahead and develop what the army wants now.

07-06-2008, 14:57 PM	#19 (permalink)
Sameer Banished *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 07-12-05 Posts: 2,541	There is nothing obsolete in the Arjun compared to the T-90. Such arguments by the IA top brass is getting old. Remember they have been forced to hold comparative trials in December vs. T-90s, they have been avoiding those for a while now. Everyone knows that there has been a lot of fish at the top brass level. As I sad before, with so many kids of top IA officers studying in US universities without scholarships when official salaries would not permit this, you need not go to far!

07-06-2008, 15:25 PM	#20 (permalink)
Samudra *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 09-01-04 Location: North London Posts: 4,356 Country:	I'm disappointed and there is no defence the IA can offer for its argument. Simply disappointing and revolting. As I said before if the IA doesnt want the Arjun because of its current logistics et al : that is closer to truth and believable. But if they want to skip ARJUN whilst buying 1000 T-90S quoting technology its a simple lie.

07-07-2008, 10:09 AM	#24 (permalink)
Sameer Banished *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 07-12-05 Posts: 2,541	The T-90s was not even ever subjected to any test like the Arjun which is really weird. In fact the tank has been found lacking at high temp ie 45 degrees celcius which is the worst part, our current inventory of t-90s does not even have all the goodies yet. The IA top brass is corrupt, had they at least talked about logistics, it would have at least made some sense but this is absolute garbage talk. They were even unwilling to pit their t-90s vs. the arjuns and have pished it back to december. Now before the comparative trials, they are already making a decision!

07-14-2008, 02:11 AM	#29 (permalink)
The One Contributor Join Date: 08-30-07 Location: JABALPUR [M.P.] Posts: 343 Country:	It seems a very big scandal to induct T-90's into Indian Army.How much commission they got from Russians to do that? So this was the reason to call off comparative trials b/w Arjun and T-90

07-14-2008, 03:08 AM	#30 (permalink)
gamercube Banished *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-20-06 Location: Barbados Posts: 771 Country:	I think that the MoD could easily force the Arjun down the Army's throat even if they don't want it. Since our defence minister has a "clean" reputation, I hope he takes action and makes the Army accept 1400 Arjun tanks in addition to the 1600 T-90s.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)