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Old 07-06-2008, 05:08 AM   #196 (permalink)
bengalraider
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Originally Posted by Ray View Post
Read Indian history and understand the atrocities done to Indians.

We don't publicise it nor we blame others. We are fatalists!

History and opinions are guided by contemporary times.

Have you heard of the Bengal Famine whre millions died? It was man made!
netaji had actually arranged for shiploads of foodgrains from japanese occupied territories that were refused by british india and the congress leaders as they were afraid that this would lead to an updsurge in popular support for india the likes of which they would not have been able to contain.


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During the Bengal famine of 1943, in which about one third to half of Bengal’s population died, Netaji offered to send rice from Burma to Bengal, but the British not only suppressed the news, they never allowed it happen. Churchill said that while he would bomb all the Germans to death, he would kill the ‘vicious’ Indians by starving them to death.
Dream Ink: Remembering Netaji

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BATTLE OF IMPHAL AND ADHERENCE
TO FUNDAMENTALS BY NETAJl
By :DEBNATH, DAS

Formerly General Secretary. Indian Independence League Head Quarters East Asia and Member, Council of Ministers, Azad Hind Government
. . . . . . Editor,

HISTORY bears indelible imprints of acts of faith and trust. that remain ever bright, fruitful and dynamic ; the climate wherein mistrust and lack of conviction infiltrates and pollutes remains dim and unproductive. The chapters that are created under this unhealthy climate dim insignificant in the history of march of people whereas those that are born of faith in Man and God remain forever phenomental in history. So this act of faith once more helped Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose in raising his moral and political stature in not submitting to Japanese pressure and arrogance vis-a-vis the setting up of an Indo-Japanese War Co-Operation Council to function in liberated areas and in deciding fundamentals to India's favour.
The call of Netaji for total mobilization in East and South East Asia found a tremendous echo into the minds of the three million Indians because they found in him a pillar of Indian manhood, courage and conviction and an image of honesty and sacrifice. Now, when the Liberation Forces were to establish and consolidate bases in Liberated Areas, the only compelling thought that naturally Netaji's mind was that such bases must bear an unblemished record of healthy nationalism, robust patriotism, modest yet determined conduct and last but not the least an uncompromising mood for total sacrifice of men and women of India through armed revolution, reflecting the real image of the Provisional Government of Azad Hind. It was a tremendous trial of Netaji's patriotic fervour, statesmanship, intimate sense of history on India's struggles for Freedom, Himalayan patience, keen strategic sense and logical move, and unassailable tact in his pragmatic approach to all problems that were not only delicate in nature but also extremely difficult to solve. Anything derogatory to the dignity, integrity and sovereignty. Of Free India was against the very being of Netaji. But, war is war. To win the war becomes the war aim and everything however noble, is of secondary value. Philosophy and sentiments do not bother those who handle military machine especially at a time when both sides strong and powerful, stand, face to face to onslaught each other. Military expediency then reigns supreme to decide the clear and compelling purpose of military strategist.

The situation becomes more intricate when a dependent country throws herself in military alliance with the powerful enemy of her enemy lodged deeply and strongly in its soil, for the political emancipation of her people. And most intricate the political strategy becomes when the country to be liberated is a great country with a great past having to her credit a glorious history in struggles for freedom in her own way within and that too under the leadership of the greatest man of the age, that is, India.

It is therefore, not the consideration of military triumph alone that was the moot point in discussion with the Japanese Military Command but as every detail involved in total Mobilization of men, money and materials was scrupulously attended to buy Netaji due to his innate faith in Indians by way of exhorting his compatriots to shoulder the sacred task. Netaji was equally emphatic and keen on the question of independence and integrity in role I.N.A.'s Advance Force and in governance of Liberated Areas. All discussions therefore with the Japanese civil or military, were held in that context. Temporary military gains were not necessarily all important values to Netaji until and unless Netaji was convinced that such gains would appear commensurate with the ideals of Independence Movement in India itself. How it will act and react psychologically in the minds of the Indian people in general and to what extent such gains would have impact on morals on the political stream of thoughts in minds of men and women in motherland in general was Netaji's concern. What was the image of India, then.

Following the "Quit India' resolution led by Mahatma Gandhi India entered the final phase of her struggle. Its impact on the use of India's manpower and resources by Britain was not so impressive and effective, viewed from practical point of view in so far as Britain's war machine in India was concerned. But it was symbolic of India's stand. All national leaders were incarcerated and hundreds of thousands were within prison walls. Revolutionaries were more active and inflicted great damage on enemy's war efforts. But all in all, cumulative effect of national struggles could not call a halt to Britain's stream-roller in exploiting India's men, money and materials, for her imperialistic end. Britain could also succeed in increasing a sense of hatred and horror against Japanese imperialism and Nazi fascism with all their brutalities and nakedness that appeared only before the mind's eye of intelligentsia and common people. The Congress leaders did, no doubt, stand by Mahatmaji's call but in heart most of them did not like the total collapse of Britain. In fact, they do not think of India, independent of Britain. That the cruelties and hypocrisy of British imperialism far surpassed those inherent in fascism and Japanese imperialism were conveniently forgotten to meet Britain's war needs and to divert people's mind.

The Muslim League helped Britain. The Communist Party of India called the war as the people's war and extended all help and co-operation to Britain not only in her war efforts but also in her organized machination to crush the revolutionary upsurge inherent in the 'Quit India Resolution' and in the call for upsurge by the revolutionaries all over India. The Muslim League, Hindu Mahasabha and the Communist Party of India got all help and assistance in crushing the Inherence Movement. The industrialists, businessmen and traders and job seekers found in war great opportunities to enrich themselves. Educated men and women were reconciled with lucrative jobs. Mahatma Gandhi's call for 'DO or Die' and the revolutionaries march to martyrdom were eloquently manifested by limited people only-a band of patriots-albeit significant but not overwhelming while compared with the total population and the cause involved. A sad contrast, indeed, when one witnessed the total response from the total people to the total mobilization call by Netaji in East and South-East Asia, for the emancipation of motherland.

The Bengal famine -a man-made famine that was created to serve Britain's imperialist's need, took a toll during the period of 1943-44 of four million lives. With all the revolutionary tradition and spiritual and moral values that Bengal was proud of, not a single shot was fired against the criminals-nor a drop of tear was shed outside Bengal in the rest part of India. People died in front of sweetmeat shops, restaurants and hotels but the common man moved in and out, quite unconcerned and unmoved, as if the 'Quit India Resolution' and the urge of revolutionaries concerned only the followers of the Mahatma and members of revolutionary parties. The people were not to blame-sandwiched as they were between two forces of indecision. The leaders and workers of the Congress took the 'Quit India Resolution', as symbolic and a moral injunction binding on them in India's patriotic stand vis-a-vis Britain's war efforts. In absence of a concerted programme for total struggle country wide for independence by striking the enemy-its roots and branches, the people's mind was at bay, bereft of a clear conscince. Again they lacked in that robust conviction that India's strength and power if generated and directed point blank against the only enemy could match in defeating Britain that was strong and powerful and deeply consolidated in our soil, it would equally match in defeating all machinations of Japan or for that matter any other power, if and where faced, once India was free. Indecision seized the mind of the people during the most crucial period when India was in peril. Her resurgent soul should have remained unconquered and asserted to restore her glory.

Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose proved his mettle as patriot, a statesman and diplomat, during the crucial days of India's destiny. The question of military operation in liberating the advance areas of Manipur State. Assam and Bengal, was most important from the viewpoint of the Azad Hind Government and the Japanese military authority. The formation of an Indo-Japanese war co-operation council to conduct war operations on the soil of India was therefore considered a logical step. General Isoda. Chief of the Hikari Kikan. Proposed that a Japanese General be the chairman of the council. Netaji refused to consider the proposal. Japan continued on the insistence for a Japanese chairman of Netaji, equally refused to consider the proposal and insisted on an Indian chairman; in taking this stand he was as uncompromising as he was in his conviction to fight British imperialism. He would not compromise with anything that appeared to him as derogatory to the sovereignty of Free India. He would not concede to anything that would harm India's honour and self-respect of Indian patriots at home.

Any student of history will be amazed at the stand taken by Netaji and at his patriotic fervour. On one side, the powerful Japanese Army that declared war against the two mightiest powers in the world Britain and America and reduced their power to ashes. On other side only three divisions of I.N.A. combatant forces. On one side, Japan occupying three fourths of the total area of Asia controlling the destiny of cores of people, on another side the Azad Hind Government functioning-and that too on the territory occupied by Japan on the strength of only three million Indians, and that too scattered all over East and South-east Asia.

On one side, Japan moved fifteen divisions from its Headquarters in Rangoon to Indo-Burma frontiers to march to India, on another side the Supreme command. I. N. A. deployed two divisions to face onslaughts of enemy and to liberate the northeastern part of India, at the first outset. Japan's involvement in operation was, therefore, gigantic and stupendous and her military strategy allowed no room for experiments. The main thrust against enemy's position on the soil of India, especially in the north eastern zone was to be given by Japan's mechanized army and air force till I. N. A. was prepared to meet the challenge. From the military point of view and in the context of Japan's strength and involvement she insisted on a Japanese chairman in the council.

But Netaji would not yield. Soon after his arrival from Germany he sounded the Japanese High command on most vital issues and got assurance from Japan of all-out unconditional aid towards India's prosecution of war against Britain and he did not give any promise of military, economic or political concession to Japan in lieu of all her aid. And it was made emphatically clear when General Hideki Tojo, the Prime Minister of Japan declared, "The imperial Japanese Army will fight shoulder to shoulder with the Indian National Army under the leadership of Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose, on Indian soil". It was unequivocally clear.

When he met marshal Terauchi, the supreme commander of Japanese forces inland, air and sea, in East & South East Asia, Netaji made it clear that the main burden of liberating India through armed forces devolved on Indians and the Indian National Army and that any liberation of India secured through Japanese sacrifices was to him worse than slavery. The joint communique was issued to the effect that the I.N.A. soldier must form a spearhead of the advance into India and the Japanese soldier will advance as and when asked by the Commander of the Advance Headquarters of I. N. A. All Japanese commanders were informed accordingly. In his special order of the day issued soon after assuming the office of Supreme Commander of the Indian National Army on August 25, 1943, Netaji said that he deemed it to be against the national honour of India that the soldiers of I. N. A. should stay behind in battles of India's independence, while the Japanese advanced into Indian territory. The first drop of blood to be shed on the sacred soil of India would be that of a soldier of the I. N. A.

Now when the declared policy of Japan not to interfere into the vital problems arising out of campaign on Indian soil was there Netaji did not budge an inch and insisted on an Indian chairman in the proposed Indo-Japanese War Co-operation Council. The Azad Hind Government, Netaji said. Declared war against Britain and America and the Indian National Army was fighting the battles of India on Indian soil, under the order of the Government and naturally an Indian general should be the chairman of the council and conduct the battles for India's liberation with Japan as an ally.

But General Isoda, chief of the Hikari Kikan (Liaison Department), Major General Yamamoto, Col. Kogawa and Col. Kitabe were adamant in insisting a Japanese chairman. It was only when Netaji threatened that he would then withdraw from the movement and inform the Tokyo High Command and Marshal Terauchi that these officers of the Hikari Kikan came down and withdrew their suggestion for a Japanese chairman for the council. Netaji however, exercised tremendous self-restraint during those crucial moments and now took Japanese withdrawal of proposal with good grace and humour. The Japanese generals could see the mettle of a man who stood unruffled as a pillar of India's manhood not because of the enormity of men, money and materials at his disposal which was out of proportion while compared with those to be deployed at the mere bidding of the Japanese Military Authority but because of his inner faith in the soul of India and in her people in general and in the mettle of I. N. A. forces in particular.

Now the problem of the basis of co-operation and action between the Indian National Army and the Japanese Army in the campaign had to be solved. It was a gigantic task involving hundreds, of thousands of armed man belonging to I. N. A. and to Japanese army to be deployed to take offensive along the whole Indo-Burma border. This was thoroughly discussed between the Supreme Command, I. N. A. and General Kawabe, the commander-in chief of the Japanese army. It was decided that the operation would resume as soon as Netaji ordered them to advance. The following basic guidelines were decided upon :

1. A common strategy in the operation plan will be chalked out by the Commanders of the I. N. A. and Japanese Army Head-quarters at Rangoon.
2. The I. N. A. and Japanese army are allies and will enjoy equal status in all respects.
3. The Command of I. N. A. forces and their units will remain in hands of I.N.A. Officers. 4. The smallest unit of I.N.A. forces will be a battalion under an I. N. A. officer. I. N. A. forces should not be split up in small groups. All I. N. A. s units will be composite units and will not be attached to any Japanese formations.
5. To maintain equal status of I. N. A. and Japanese army saluting was to be observed on a reciprocal basis. Junior officers of either army saluting the senior officer of the other army and officer of equal rank of both armies to salute at the same time.
6. I. N. A. forces will be governed by I. N. A. Military Law and Army Act and the Japanese Headquarters will not be within its bounds to interfere in any way with its discipline and regulation. Total Mobilization of men, money and materials on Indian soil will be conducted by the Provisional Government of Azad Hind.
7. Territories liberated in Indian soil must be handed over to the I. N. A. for administration under the over-all command of Major General Zamani Kiani the Divisional commander who will hand over the charge of administration of liberated areas to Major General A. C. Chatterjee, Governor designate of Liberated Areas and Leader of Azad Hind Dal.
8. Dumps of arms, ammunitions, oil, stores, equipments, machineries and all war materials seized by the Japanese army must be handed over to Provisional Government of Azad Hind.
9. Rule behaviour, looting and rape will not be tolerated. The Commander-in-chief of Japanese forces accepted and appreciated the order of Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose to INA soldiers to shoot at sight any Indian or Japanese found in looting or raping on Indian soil. The Commander-in-chief, Burma Army, General Kawabe assured to issue similar orders to the Japanese Army.
10. The only flag that would be permitted to fly over liberated areas is the Indian Tri-colour-the Indian National Flag.

In arriving at the solution of fundamentals Netaji had to work ceaselessly to get over the strong opposition from the Hikari Kikan-the Liaison Department of the Japanese High Command.

Without budging an inch from the principle he over ruled the opposition of the General of the Hikari Kikan and his staff and directly negotiated with Marshal Terauchi, Marshal Sugiyama and General Kawabe the commander in chief of the Japanese Forces in Burma. On the question of equal status of I. N. A. with Japanese army the initial Japanese viewpoint that the latter being the senior army should have higher status, was rejected by Netaji.

So also the Japanese initial proposal on the question of officers holding the same rank in I. N. A. and Japanese army, that the Indian officers should salute first to Japanese officer, was vehemently opposed by Netaji.

On the Japanese proposal that small units or groups of I.N.A. soldiers be attached to larger Japanese formations, was not approved by Netaji for the simple reason that, I.N.A. soldiers must remain under the command of I. N. A. officers only and also that I. N. A.'s solidarity should not be allowed to be disintegrated. On the question of military law and Army governing all combatant forces in East & South east Asia, General Kawabe at first proposed that the I. N. A. should be subject to Japanese military law just as all other allied armies, namely the Manchurian army, the China army, the Burmese army and the Thai army were subjected to.

Netaji treated the proposal with contempt and eventually succeeded through negotiations with the Japanese High Command in asserting that all combatant forces of the Azad Hind Government would be subjected to I. N. A. military law and Army Act.

Netaji made it clear to the Japanese High Command that it was India's war of Liberation and that the sacred burdens were to be shouldered by the Indian National Army. He was, therefore, continuously claiming that all war materials seized during the operation on Indian soil were the properties of the Azad Hind Government. The Commander-in-chief of the Japanese army in Burma vehemently opposed the idea for military reasons. Netaji reminded that the Japanese army would fight shoulder to shoulder with I. N. A., for India's independence which was the declared policy of Japan and not that the I.N.A. would fight shoulder to shoulder with Japan for the cause, Japan had to accede.

Regarding the governance of the Liberated Areas the Japanese High Command in Tokyo faced strong resentment from its combined armed forces in Burma on the Azad Hind Government's decision and directive delegate power (a) to Major General Zaman Kiani to control combined armed forces-I.N.A. and Japanese on Indian soil and (b) to Major General A. C. Chatterjee, to govern liberated areas as the head of Civil administration. Netaji was determined. Japan had to agree.

So the image of a resurgent India appeared before us- an India determined to wage war against British imperialism. A Free India was thus made conscious to shoulder the sacred burden-all by her sons and daughters with confidence and adherence to fundamentals so that Japanese imperialism could not infiltrate.

No wonder, every soldier did his duty with faith in God and country and trust in the leader. And with that implicit faith the Indian National Army advanced through blood bath and liberated Moirang. The National Flag was hoisted on April 14, 1944 by Col. Malik and the Advance Headquarters of the Liberated Army was established at the residence of Shri H. Nilamani Singh at Moirang while the soil of Moirang and all its surrounding approaches was yet wet with the blood of Martyrs. ' The names of those national heroes should be entered in golden letters into the Galaxy of Martyrdom and the Historic site where the National Flag was hoisted should be declared as the First National Shrine of India standing ever as the Symbol of India's Unity, Faith and Sacrifice.

JAI HIND.

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Old 07-06-2008, 06:39 AM   #197 (permalink)
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The British were no angels when compared to the Nazis they were just as worse
as them .The only thing was they won the war and had good PR .I don't know why the atrocities that they did never come into limelight
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Old 07-06-2008, 07:37 AM   #198 (permalink)
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The British were no angels when compared to the Nazis they were just as worse
as them .The only thing was they won the war and had good PR .I don't know why the atrocities that they did never come into limelight
same reason why the atrocities done by stalin, china or the usa ( remember the contra affair) have never seen the light of day power flows from the barrel of a gun and these guys have all the guns.
P.S victors write history otherwise alexander was the greatest barbarian of all time
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Old 07-06-2008, 07:47 AM   #199 (permalink)
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P.S victors write history otherwise alexander was the greatest barbarian of all time
true !!very much true!!
The losers are always Demons!!,the winners are Angels!!
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Old 07-06-2008, 09:48 AM   #200 (permalink)
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same reason why the atrocities done by stalin, china or the usa ( remember the contra affair) have never seen the light of day power flows from the barrel of a gun and these guys have all the guns.
P.S victors write history otherwise alexander was the greatest barbarian of all time
Genghis Khan anyone?
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:35 AM   #201 (permalink)
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Genghis Khan anyone?
the problem with Genghis is he never colonized the places he attacked, his only motive was plunder and hence he never stayed long enough at a place to really be able to change history.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:54 AM   #202 (permalink)
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No, you said the greatest barbarian ever to invade.

Genghis Khan was a barbarian and he did invade. Moreover the effects were long lasting. The Siege of Baghdad anyone? Don't forget the Golden Khanates and other Khanates.
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Old 07-06-2008, 16:28 PM   #203 (permalink)
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I'm assuming after Bose takes control of Delhi the INA would become a big force.
Are you assuming that it won't be the IJA marching into Delhi?

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During peacetime more than military skills you need diplomatic skills.
You're the one who raised the example of Tito. I merely point out that one of the characteristics that allow Tito to keep his independence was his military expertise. Characteristics not shared with Bose.

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Most Japanese people do not identify as exclusively belonging to just one religion(Buddhism or Shinto) but incorporate features of both religions into their daily lives in a process known as syncretism.
Doesn't change the fact that Shinto militarists have no qualms about butchering Buddhists and more than one temple had been razed to the ground. You're counting on sympathy that simply did not exist.

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You are following the logic of our timeline to say that Japan would commit atrocities on India as it committed on china and other countries had it won the world war. I am also following the logic of our timeline to argue the way us and ussr engaged in cold war and china freed itself from soviet control taking the advantage of cold war ,India would have done the same in the alternative timeline.
My point was that you have no factual basis for your scenario. If there is one thing that this board has gone through is that we have shown that there is no way for Imperial Japan to emerge as anything else other than a loser.

1) There was no way for Germany to get beyond the Urals.
2) Stalin hated the Japanese
3) Manchuria and Korea had the industries Stalin needed and wanted
4) Stalin took Manchuria in less than 3 weeks

What this means to the Bose scenario, I don't know but I do know that Japan won't be in a position to supply anything to Bose ... not that they ever wanted to in the 1st place.

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Also during Partition of India nearly a million people died and 14 million people were rendered homeless (both in west and east India and pakistan). Had Netaji taken control of India this would have been avoided as he would have kept India united. The avoidance of so many deaths and mass migration is enough to argue for Netaji's(Bose) case.
I am not well versed enough in Indian political history to say that this could have been avoided or delayed. From what I could gather, Bose certainly was charismatic enough but his deals with the Japanese and his failure to read the Japanese raises questions on just how tuned in he really was.

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netaji had actually arranged for shiploads of foodgrains from japanese occupied territories that were refused by british india and the congress leaders as they were afraid that this would lead to an updsurge in popular support for india the likes of which they would not have been able to contain.

Dream Ink: Remembering Netaji
Well, I almost dismissed the article upfront when it mentions a mechanized Japanese army. The author is no military man.

However, have you noticed just how well the Japanese lived up to their end of the bargain? Given similar promises to Pu Yi and by Hirohito himself rather than some low end Field Marshall, I say the chances of any rice being shipped to India is slim to none.

Gentlemen, it is not Bose that is being questioned. It is the Japanese. Thus far, no one has shown anything that the Japanese were willing to support Bose to the end. If anything, the exact opposite has been shown. Bose's own people have been shot and jailed.
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:46 AM   #204 (permalink)
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OOE,

In a way you are questioning Bose. However like I said, Bose had to work with whatever he had. He couldn't be a chooser. His options are extremely limited. Nonetheless, you cannot deny that he made great strides for Indian independence. The British were not serious about Indian independence until they saw Bose and other people ready to take up Bose's role willing to take the violent path and it was a losing proposition for the British. They left on our terms (well most of it aside from the Partition)
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:28 AM   #205 (permalink)
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OOE,

In a way you are questioning Bose. However like I said, Bose had to work with whatever he had. He couldn't be a chooser. His options are extremely limited. Nonetheless, you cannot deny that he made great strides for Indian independence. The British were not serious about Indian independence until they saw Bose and other people ready to take up Bose's role willing to take the violent path and it was a losing proposition for the British. They left on our terms (well most of it aside from the Partition)
Blade, also dont forget the US. America was always suspicious that Britain would try to hang on to the empire using American money. I think their refusal to bankroll British reconstruction unless they dropped the empire was also a factor.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:38 AM   #206 (permalink)
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Hitesh,

I really don't know what the British and Indians think of Bose but I do know what the Japanese think of him ... and it ain't much.

Bose was not raising the armies he promised and the INA was performing nowhere close to IJA standards though that is a warped view. In fact, the Japanese viewed the true Indian soldier as being on the British side rather than the INA.

British Indian Army soldiers have chosen death by firing squad rather than to join with the InA. View that in context with the Bushido code and see why the IJA don't think much of the INA at all.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._prisoners.jpg
Caption: Japanese soldiers shooting Sikh prisoners.

Added to this, Bose's generals were nothing more than clowns and the Japanese were faced with Bill Slim, it is no wonder that the Japanese thought they've got the worst of the deal.

And the truth was that they had.
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:05 AM   #207 (permalink)
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Colonel,

The fact that the Japanese could make the British reach the Indian borders and even go inside should indicate their resolve.

Slim, though a great General, was assisted immensely by the wealth of the Empire and the Allies and its loyal servants!

Compare that with what the Japanese had.

But for the A Bombs who knows what would have happened!

What the British did in Andaman and NIcobar and elsewhere will never be known as the victors write history!

No race or country is morally pure.

You show what the Japanese have done to Indian PsW.

Do have a look at the Jalianwallah massacre by the British in broad daylight!

But does it mean all British people were the same? No.

There were great Britons like Sister Nivedita, Dinadbandhu Andrews and their like! They are still revered in India with fondness. We also appreciate the good work done by the British and like to forget their atrocities.

The Indian National Congress was founded by a Briton.

The mutual impact of Britain and India is a subject of absorbing interest. Some studies have been made of its varied aspects – art, literature, philosophy, religion, science and education. No attempt has, however, been made to evaluate the contribution made by the liberal English statesman – A.O. Hume, W.S.Blunt, Henry Cotton, Henry Yule, Charles Bradlaugh, Wedderburn, H. M. Hyndman, John Bright, H. J. Laski, C. F. Andrews and many others
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:09 AM   #208 (permalink)
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Colonel,

The fact that the Japanese could make the British reach the Indian borders and even go inside should indicate their resolve.
Sir,

History has already told us what and why that happened.

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Slim, though a great General, was assisted immensely by the wealth of the Empire and the Allies and its loyal servants!
Sir,

I'm merely indicating that the Indian soldier have chosen sides ... and the Japanese soldier knew it.

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Compare that with what the Japanese had.

But for the A Bombs who knows what would have happened!
We have discussed this in the WWII threads, Sir. Had it not been for the A-bombs, you would've seen the extermination of the Japanese race.
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:14 AM   #209 (permalink)
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We have discussed this in the WWII threads, Sir. Had it not been for the A-bombs, you would've seen the extermination of the Japanese race.
I don't believe that!

We maybe a docile race, but we are no sheep.

If we could have taken on the British Empire, we would have also taken on the Japanese.

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History has already told us what and why that happened.
As written by the victors.

Are you suggesting that the Germans and the Japanese never had any spectacular victories?

Have you noticed how guilty the Germans have been made to feel about themselves, as if they are all responsible for that Maniac even till today!!

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Old 07-08-2008, 02:31 AM   #210 (permalink)
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I don't believe that!

We maybe a docile race, but we are no sheep.

If we could have taken on the British Empire, we would have also taken on the Japanese.
Sir,

I do not understand you. You asked if it were not for the A-bombs, we would not know what might have happened. That means that everything up to the point of the A-bombs is accepted as fact and the fact was that the Japanese were driven from everywhere, including India.

Are you suggesting for this scenario that the Japanese might have taken India? Sir, that is one scenario I cannot and will not accept. Even if Britain ran away from Asia, Japan was in no position to take India. China was more than she could have handled.

What's more, there were more than two million men volunteers to the British Indian Army. The INA never numbered more than two divisions. The numbers alone says Japan never had a chance.

Further more, Stalin would've killed Imperial Japan long before she ever marshalled enough troops to march to Delhi. Simply put, Sir, I cannot and will not see the Rising Sun over Delhi. Maybe the Union Jack would've been gone but it would not have been replaced by the Rising Sun.

Further more, Sir, there were more than 400 million angry China-men ready to kill the Japanese. Never mind the 44 Siberian Divisions that Stalin had in reserves that were used to crush the Imperial Japanese Empire in less than 3 weeks.

If those Soviet and Chinese divisions ever reached Japanese shores, Nanking would be child's play in comparison.

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As written by the victors.

Are you suggesting that the Germans and the Japanese never had any spectacular victories?
As history has shown, Sir, none that could be sustained.

I remind you, Sir, that it was Imperial Japanese Naval Admiral Yamamoto who stated that Japan was going to lose the war.
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