Sameer

That is a recent and natural development that eventually consumption would pick up. PLease compare the figures in % terms to that of India.

That China's growth has been largely export driven is no misnomer. that it is changing naturally is also not disputed.

Whill

This is my first post on this forum. I have been a lurker on WAB for almost a year and thought this is the appropriate time join and contribute in any small way i can.

I came across These two videos about China and west and found them very interesting.


YouTube - Conversations With History - Kishore Mahbubani

Free File Hosting - Share files with friends and earn money

xunil

Isaac Newton published his famous book: "mathematical principles of natural philosophy" on July 5, 1687.
Charles Darwin published his famous book: "Origin of Species" in 1859.
Albert Einstein published his famous book: "General relativity" in 1916.

I just wonder when China will have great scientists like those. So talking about scientific innovation, China is still at least 300 years behind the West. If one day China have great scientists like above, then let's hail the truely rise of China and shift of world power.

bengalraider

one must take into account the political situation in Pakistan as one discusses these 2 nations , 10yrs from now as the talibanization of Pakistan reaches a new high shall bring problems for both India and china severely impacting both.
the Uighur insurgency shall become anew threat for the PLA as the rise of islamists in Pakistan shall provide the Uighur with support while also worsening the militant situation in India.the rapidly widening urban-rural gap and pollution and population problems shall bring new problems for India and china both also the future energy crisis shall bring fresh problems for both nations

Jay

Dude, India and China had many scientists like the above way before Europe, its in the last 5-600 years that these countries lost the plot.

__________________
A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

xunil

I was talking about modern science.

kuku

Dont worry we will get to that point, plenty of talented and hard working people around, now that we might have enough to eat, rest will follow.

The science part, the economy part, the military part are fine.

What worries me are the empty houses when ever i go back to my village, its good that people are able to enjoy a better life in the cities, however i am not sure the cities will survive the coming decade, and when they implode they will cause the start of really troubled times.
Why, yesterday evening while out for a stroll saw a guy run off with a womans purse.
It was not that i thought that stealing the womans purse was a horrible thing to do, i was afraid for the guy who stole it, had he been caught, i do not think people would have left him alive...

About time more places start turning into population magnets and really fast at that, with the easy does it approach that authorities show, they might not live to see the end of it.

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pravin

True the villages are getting empty and the cities are exploding at an alarming rate

bolo121

But guys the villages emptying is a good thing, indeed it is what development is aimed at doing.
India's problem has always been too many people on too little land. Therefore economic development is aimed at shifting people off the land to the cities and getting families of the debt trap. In agriculture less is always more.

xunil

The quesiton of China, maybe India too, is the best heads of the country left and become other countries' civilian. I believe if one has more ability, he should more responsible to his land and people. If Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein live in China now, I guess they are proparing for the GRE test. I constantly feel that maybe China had lost it's greatness.

pravin

No problem Sir the Sea turtles are coming back

Ray

Try the Chinese Hukou System of population control.

A hùkǒu (Chinese: 户口) or hùjí (Chinese: 戶籍) refers to the system of residency permits which dates back to the 1950s where household registration is required by law in mainland China.

A household registration record officially identifies a person as a resident of an area and includes identifying information such the name of the person, date of birth, the names of parents, and name of spouse, if married.

A hukou can also refer to a family register in many contexts since the household registration record (戶籍謄本, hùjíténgběn) is issued per family, and usually includes the births, deaths, marriages, divorces, and moves, of all members in the family. A similar household registration system exists within the public administration structures of Japan (koseki), Vietnam (Hộ khẩu) and North Korea (Hoju). In South Korea the Hoju system was abolished on 1 January 2008.

The Communist Party instigated a command economy when it came to power in the late 1940s. In 1958, Mao Zedong set up an hereditary residency permit system defining where people could work. Individuals were broadly categorised as a "rural" or "urban" worker. A worker seeking to move from the country to urban areas to take up non-agricultural work would have to apply through the relevant bureaucracies. The number of workers allowed to make such moves was tightly controlled. Migrant workers would require six passes to work in provinces other than their own. People who worked outside their authorized domain or geographical area would not qualify for grain rations, employer-provided housing, or health care. There were controls over education, employment, marriage and so on.

From around 1953 to 1976, Police would periodically round up those who without valid residence permit, place them in detention centres and expel them from cities.

Administration regulations issued in 1982 known as "custody and repatriation" authorized police to detain people, and "repatriate" them to their permanent residency location.

Although an individual is technically required to live in the area designated on his/her permit, in practice the system has largely broken down. After Chinese market reforms, it became possible for some to unofficially migrate and get a job without a valid permit. Economic reforms also created pressures to encourage migration from the interior to the coast. It also provided incentives for officials not to enforce regulations on migration.

Technology has made it easier to enforce the Hukou system as now the police force has a national database of official Hukou registrations, this was made possible by computerisation in the 1990s, and greater co-operation between the different regional police authorities

The hukou system has been described as "China's apartheid". The gradual relaxation of some of the more repressive aspects of the hukou system since the mid-1990s has largely eliminated the spatial aspect of the "apartheid". However, as the hukou remains hereditary, the "substance of the social apartheid remains intact."

From Wikipedia.

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"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

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kuku

Well the situation is better than before, much better, now people have the option of living a good life after a graduation.

For higher studies, Universities with more resources are an option, however knowledge is very fluid, many people have come back to their nations and shared their knowledge, in turn improving the current system.

Right now at least in India what i have seen in technical education there are some very basic problems, ones that have to be sorted out, and until they are there will be problems.
- Things as simple as a theory based course at all engineering colleges, with students absolutely out of touch with what is going on in any Industry.
- Lack of lecturers and professors who have regular interaction with Industry or R&D institutions, which is a bottleneck for developing students potential.
- Lack of funds for pursuing R&D of stuff one wishes to follow, i mean you really have to pay up to get something.

For an example during my final semester in college, we had a exchange faculty member, he was a professor from USA, took a design paper, all through our college we had never had a lecturer or professor like him, he was just at a different level, the tests he wanted to give to us were open book tests, we could use any resource to help us solve his test,
that irritated our home faculty lecturer, the point that the external faculty member had was:
when these kids go out and start a job, no one will tell them not to open a book, so why should we, and in any case we are not teaching them how to mug up formulas, we are teaching them how to design this structure..
Really when we all started working we got the point, jobs were nothing like what we were prepared for in College.

And another thing, even in some companies, until and unless you are actually looking to develop new technologies, new ways of doing things, you will not find them, i mean if a company has minimal R&D staff they wont come up with something new, so that has to happen.

Good thing is that their are companies who have struggled it out to get a generation or two of indigenously developed products, and will reach closer to latest international standards with every generation of their product.

And some colleges have taken steps to ensure that students get the latest exposure to available tech and R&D which is going on, very few colleges but hey a step forward is a step forward.

For all the expenditures that the government does, starting a good university and making sure its well funded is always a good Idea, another one should be allowing private enterprise to open up their own institutions that follow prescribed standards, which is happening however with the sort of bureaucratic control that exists in India many Private universities follow no standards (thanks to bribes), and the ones that intend to become good universities are bound in a never ending roll of red tape.


So with all of as a point, I think the problem is not that people are going to other nations to study, the problem is a lack of well funded R&D by well paid people.

What is the status of Government and Private Universities in China?

And when we talk of Newton or Einstein, these are genius, they are not bound by nations, or races, they are a class apart, always celebrated for their achievements, and (I think) tormented by them.

What we should look for is your average tireless scientist and engineer working for something like a more efficient light bulb

kuku

Sir ji,

that will not work in India, and if someone forced it on the people good luck with the fireworks that will follow.

Most of the Chinese solutions will not really work in India, India is India and China is China.

Skywatcher

The hukuo seems to have gone the way of the one child policy and restrictions on religion since the CCP seems to have far bigger problems now.