India tests Agni-III

Silent Hunter · 05-07-2008, 09:54 AM

BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | India launches ballistic missile

Comments?

kuku · 05-07-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Possession of the Agni-III will give India deep strike capability because it would have Chinese cities like Beijing and Shanghai and the US island base of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean well within its striking range.

BBC you sneaky little B#$@'s..

Attack on a US base, wont fall for that one, love our nation too much.

The media is quite vocal about this missile being a step towards ensuring a deterrence w.r.t the bigger neighbour, i bet the left front in India must be angry at the government.

antimony · 05-07-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuku

BBC you sneaky little B#$@'s..
The media is quite vocal about this missile being a step towards ensuring a deterrence w.r.t the bigger neighbour, i bet the left front in India must be angry at the government.

I just checked the CPI(M) mouthpiece Ganashakti. Absolutely no mention of this (they probably figurd that they would look bad denouncing this). They are being quite vocal about the price rise issues though...

gamercube · 05-07-2008, 13:34 PM

Agni III's stated range is "more than 3000 km" with a payload of 1.5 tonne. What happens when a more realistic payload is considered (around 500kg)? How much would its range increase to?

Sumku · 05-07-2008, 20:20 PM

With a Payload of 500KG, range increases to somewhere 5500Km's

Sumku · 05-07-2008, 22:42 PM

N-capable Agni-III ready, but aircraft remain first choice

Quote:

New Delhi: India on Wednesday test-fired its most potent nuclear-capable missile Agni-III, which has a range of 3,500 km, indicating its growing strategic reach. There were inferences that India now has a greater capability to deter China.

But the former chief of India's Strategic Forces Command has done a reality check on the missile euphoria. Air Marshal TS Asthana has dropped a bombshell declaring that the Indian armed forces still regard fighter aircraft as the only reliable delivery system for nuclear weapons.

"Today it is the air which would be the greater reliance factor as far as India is concerned, the answer to that would be yes," Air Marshal Asthana says.

Fighter aircraft are widely considered more vulnerable to being shot down than a missile.

Hence, an aircraft-based nuclear-strike capability is highly suspect.

But the contradictory missile skepticism of the military lies in the minimal nature of India's deterrence posture.

Both Agni-I and Agni-II, believed to be the mainstay of India's deterrence, were declared operational on the basis of just two tests each. So user confidence is still in its infancy.

If the military leadership still believes that fighter aircraft are the only assured mechanism to deliver nuclear weapons on an enemy, perhaps the rigour of testing needs to be increased manifold to address the confidence deficit in India's strategic missiles.

The missile development agency - Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) - accepts that there's a confidence problem.

"It is the level of confidence which is to be enhanced (and) that is what we are trying to do," Dr W Selwamurthy, Chief Controller, DRDO, says.

Nuclear deterrence of an adversary, it is said, lies in the credibility of a nation's weaponry.

But it appears that the custodians of India's nuclear weapons themselves need some convincing.

To me this is scary. If our BM's are not fit enough then what chances do we have to against China[assuming that war starts tomorrow]

kuku · 05-07-2008, 23:24 PM

CNN-IBN, never go by their reports, their defence reporting are somewhat suspect.

As far as India is concerned, a no first use policy ensures that the first strike will take care of most of the aircrafts that they are talking of will be radioactive waste, in turn wiping off their value as second strike platforms, the military is well aware of this, and the Agni missiles have been tested by the army.

Just look at the head line of their report
N-capable Agni-III ready, but aircraft remain first choice
Agni 3 is not ready, it will take 2010-11 to make it fully operational.

As for

Quote:

Both Agni-I and Agni-II, believed to be the mainstay of India's deterrence, were declared operational on the basis of just two tests each. So user confidence is still in its infancy.

here is the report of the test by army of the missile.

Quote:

Hyderabad, March 23 Agni-1, India’s workhorse missile with a range of 700 km, has attained full operational capability following a successful test-fire from the Wheeler Island, off Orissa coast on Sunday.

At 10.15 a.m. scientists of the Defence Research and Development Organisation and the Indian Army (main user) launched the surface-to-air Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile (IRBM). In about nine minutes, the missile attained its desired distance, trajectory and demonstrated its operational capabilities.

Describing the test as a ‘complete success’, Dr Avinash Chander, Director, Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL) and Programme Director of Project Agni, said, “The terminal data tracked by two naval ships and total performance from the radars at the Interim Test Range (ITR) showed that the missile performed to its optimum capacity exactly as expected.”

The significance of the test was that the Agni-1 missile had met the full specifications and requirements of the user, alongside meeting the mission objectives, Dr Chander told Business Line from the Wheeler Island.

Agni-1 has already been inducted into the Indian Army. Sunday’s test-fire is also a demonstration of the user’s preparedness in handling the missile system. The all-composite body, indigenous missile was developed by Indian defence scientists and produced by the public sector Bharat Dynamics Ltd.

The Hindu Business Line : Agni-1 fully operational after test-fire success

These guys are always looking for sensationalism

Ray · 05-08-2008, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antimony

I just checked the CPI(M) mouthpiece Ganashakti. Absolutely no mention of this (they probably figurd that they would look bad denouncing this). They are being quite vocal about the price rise issues though...

You read Ganashakti?

It is the official mouthpiece of the Communist Marxists.

Obviously, they are not impressed that their fraternal country, China, is new reachable!

antimony · 05-08-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

You read Ganashakti?

It is the official mouthpiece of the Communist Marxists.

Obviously, they are not impressed that their fraternal country, China, is new reachable!

Sir,

I don't (I would consider it a personal affront if anyboady claimed I did

)

However, I did check them out yesterday to see if their was any mention of the test.

You must have seen in the streets of Calcutta the Ganashakti boards, at least they are quite prevalent n north calcuta, especially in front of the rickshaw stands and tea shops

Deltacamelately · 05-09-2008, 06:53 AM

Academically any ballistic missile with a range in excess of 6000 kms can be considered as an ICBM. One wonders, how much tweaking is required to take AgniIII into that league. DRDO argues that Agni is more of a technology platform than a mere BM.

bolo121 · 05-09-2008, 07:27 AM

I would like to see us get more road mobile BMs and given the size of the rail network, something like russia's nuke trains would also be good.

Sumku · 05-09-2008, 21:43 PM

nuke trains?

Man you read too much. Yes, Nuke trains are/were all over the place in Russia, but then Russia had lots and lots of Barren Frozen lands with no habitation, so they could have taken the risk of putting Nuke's on Trains. India cannot afford that option for 2 reasons

1) India's Population Density is very high as compared to Russia with a very congested Railroad Network. No one in their right minds would want such a Nuke train meeting with an accident in the countryside.
2) There is no strategic advantage. Nuke trains can easily be spied upon.

SSBN's would be a hell of a lot better option.

**Officer of Engineers** · 05-10-2008, 00:30 AM

My read on all this why the Indian Military is reliant on bombers instead of missiles is that the missiles are unreliable. Ok, what we've been shown thus far are the launches (both successful and unsuccessful) BUT we ARE NOT shown the prep work to get those missiles to be launch ready.

I can only surmise that the prep work was unsatisfactory in a nuke strike role.

Until anyone can show me that the Indian military is ready to rely more on missiles than on aircrafts, then any argument for SLBMs or even SLCMs is automatically null to the point of non-existence.

kuku · 05-10-2008, 00:47 AM

Well IMO they already have these trains configured to carry nuclear missiles.
Rail and road mobility are essential till the nuclear subs come on line and become fully operational.

I think they would have thought through the safety part.

Nuclear trains are not that easy to follow around, considering the traffic that exists with in the Indian railways, the range of the missile, and the size of the Indian railways.It is possible to blend the rail missile carrier with the normal traffic. The deterrence is opponent based, the range of the missiles till now should tell one where the deterrence was aimed at.

Submarines would be a better option, however a credible submarine based deterrence might be some years away.
First the construction has to finish, then they have to go through sea trials, then they have to be inducted into the Navy, after that the navy will have to hone in the art of using these nuclear submarines, and simultaneously longer ranged missiles have to be developed/modified, tested and put on the submarines.

Meanwhile the work on another missile has started

Quote:

DRDO readying design for 5,000 km-range Agni-V

It is to be equipped in the later stages with multiple warheads

HYDERABAD: Riding on the success of the test-firing of the 3,500 km range, nuclear-capable Agni-III surface-to-surface ballistic missile, the DRDO scientists team involved in the Agni project is planning to complete the design for the first developmental flight of Agni-V ( 5,000 km) in two years. Besides, the team also proposes to equip Agni-V in the later stages with multiple warheads and anti-ballistic missile counter measures.

Talking to reporters here on Friday, Agni’s programme director and Advanced Systems Laboratory director Avinash Chander said, “We are getting ready for the 5,000 km system. Designs are in progress.”

With most of the inputs coming from Agni-III, the technological capability existed for developing a ballistic missile of 5,000 km range.
New design

Although developing Agni-V was an extension of the existing know-how, he pointed out that it would be per se a new design and a new product. Every package needed to be thoroughly evaluated for severe thermal environment and other factors which Agni-V would encounter.

Mr. Chander said that Agni-V would be a three-stage solid-fuelled projectile with the third stage made of composite rocket motor casing.

He said the just-tested Agni-III was a “truly deliverable version” and expressed confidence that no more developmental flights were required. For the first time, a strategic command network and all features of safety and security were integrated with the system. Referring to the maturity of the missile technology developed for Agni-III, he said “We have come to a stage where we can closely recreate all flight conditions on the ground for 600 micro-parameters… we have totally validated the design and manufacturing methodologies, ” he added.

Stressing that Agni-III was ready for induction, he said the user might require a familiarisation test in the next six to eight months.

He said the ring laser gyro-based Inertial Navigation System was among the state-of-the-art indigenous components used in the missile to enhance its accuracy.

V.G.Sekharan, project director (A3), D.P.Rao, project director (A1), Tessy Thomas, associate project director, and D.Lakshminarayana, project director (A2), were present.

The Hindu : National : DRDO readying design for 5,000 km-range Agni-V

It seems the government has finally decided to give the missile development a go ahead (more work for DRDO).
The area will be a lot more active in the coming years, it seems the government is getting ready for it.

Is Agni-IV missing on purpose (some other program), or is this just an error in the report?

**Officer of Engineers** · 05-10-2008, 00:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuku

Nuclear trains are not that easy to follow around, considering the traffic that exists with in the Indian railways, the range of the missile, and the size of the Indian railways.It is possible to blend the rail missile carrier with the normal traffic.

Do you know how cheap a Geiger counter is?

05-07-2008, 09:54 AM	#1 (permalink)
Silent Hunter Contributor Join Date: 08-09-07 Location: London, UK Posts: 469 Country:	India tests Agni-III BBC NEWS \| World \| South Asia \| India launches ballistic missile Comments?

05-07-2008, 13:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
gamercube Contributor Join Date: 11-20-06 Location: Barbados Posts: 636 Country:	Agni III's stated range is "more than 3000 km" with a payload of 1.5 tonne. What happens when a more realistic payload is considered (around 500kg)? How much would its range increase to? __________________ Hasta la Victoria siempre!

05-07-2008, 20:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sumku Regular Join Date: 04-12-08 Location: Allahabad Posts: 94 Country:	With a Payload of 500KG, range increases to somewhere 5500Km's __________________ Sumit Kumar

05-09-2008, 06:53 AM	#10 (permalink)
Deltacamelately *Military Professional* Join Date: 09-29-07 Posts: 489 Country:	Academically any ballistic missile with a range in excess of 6000 kms can be considered as an ICBM. One wonders, how much tweaking is required to take AgniIII into that league. DRDO argues that Agni is more of a technology platform than a mere BM. __________________ I am the DARK that Rise to Kill..And Soar to Redeem!

05-10-2008, 00:30 AM	#13 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 14,874 Country:	My read on all this why the Indian Military is reliant on bombers instead of missiles is that the missiles are unreliable. Ok, what we've been shown thus far are the launches (both successful and unsuccessful) BUT we ARE NOT shown the prep work to get those missiles to be launch ready. I can only surmise that the prep work was unsatisfactory in a nuke strike role. Until anyone can show me that the Indian military is ready to rely more on missiles than on aircrafts, then any argument for SLBMs or even SLCMs is automatically null to the point of non-existence. __________________ Chimo Last edited by Officer of Engineers : 05-10-2008 at 00:33 AM.

05-09-2008, 07:27 AM	#11 (permalink)
bolo121 Contributor Join Date: 12-19-07 Location: india Posts: 540 Country:	I would like to see us get more road mobile BMs and given the size of the rail network, something like russia's nuke trains would also be good.

05-09-2008, 21:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
Sumku Regular Join Date: 04-12-08 Location: Allahabad Posts: 94 Country:	nuke trains? Man you read too much. Yes, Nuke trains are/were all over the place in Russia, but then Russia had lots and lots of Barren Frozen lands with no habitation, so they could have taken the risk of putting Nuke's on Trains. India cannot afford that option for 2 reasons 1) India's Population Density is very high as compared to Russia with a very congested Railroad Network. No one in their right minds would want such a Nuke train meeting with an accident in the countryside. 2) There is no strategic advantage. Nuke trains can easily be spied upon. SSBN's would be a hell of a lot better option.

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