Indian Armies through the ages - Page 4

digvijay · 12-05-2006, 13:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronic

No, I have never said censorship of history, your "Indian armies" piece is nothing but an amplification of Islam vs. Hinduism.... Infact it has so less to do with Indian armies and more to do with Islam... I'm against just that, amplification....

It would be amplification if any of the facts I have presented are false. Can you point out some? If you cannot point out any then your thesis is wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronic

The Germans and the Americans are criticizing the leaders of the past and are mostly criticizing themselves. What you have got going on here is criticizing somebody elses religion and the emporers which carried out these atrocities are put aside or on the backburner, and Islam is the one which the main guns are pointing to. This is NOTHING compared to how the Germans and Americans criticize THEMSELVES for the past; infact this is in sharp contrast to that because here you are criticizing somebody elses religion!

It is irrelevant. Truth can be spoken by _anyone_ and it should be acceptable to every one. It does not make it a "bigger truth" if a German talks about Nazis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronic

There is nothing to discuss, those points are not relevant with India today, you are living in times in which not even your great great grandfather was born...

So speaking truth is somehow bad if it is about the past? This still reeks of censorship...

-Digvijay

digvijay · 12-17-2006, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilgamesh

Islamic conquest of India is considered to be a holocaust of unimaginable proportions. Great modern historians like William Durant and others, even Arnold Toynbee, have acknowledged this. As per some estimates, upto 60 to 80 million Hindus were killed by moslem conquests and about 2 million people died during Gaznavid reign of terror alone.

Will Durant:

"The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within."

What we are seeing in India is a grotesque spin on our thinking process by the communists who want us to forget our history, deny holocaust, disrespect the dead victims by not acknowledging them, sneer at our heritage etc, etc. all in the name of keeping communal harmony.

Well, fcuk 'em! They can spew all they want, meanwhile the WWW(wonderful world of web) will offer alternative viewpoints for the discerning reader.

Gilgamesh,

You are right. What bothers me most is the fact that these islamic invaders came from a cultureless background and ended up burning the ancient libraries of India at the two universities: Nalanda and Taxila. It is unimaginable how much valuable information about the past we lost becuase of this utterly stupid act of theirs.

Basham's "Cultural History of India" says: (Following excerpt from Page 193 of this book)

--begin quote
"The Turkish conquests of more then half India between 900 and 1300 A.D were perhaps the most destructive in human history. As Muslims, the conquerors aimed not only to destroy all other religions but also to abolish the secular culture. Their burning of libraries explains the large gaps in our knowledge of earlier literature......"
--end quote

Arthur Llewellyn Basham (AL Basham) was a historian with the Australian National University in Canberra. His most popular book is The Wonder That was India.
He joined the ANU in 1965 as Professor of Oriental (later Asian) Civilizations and retired in 1979. He died in Calcutta in India in 1986. An annual public lecture series is given at the ANU in his memory.

-Digvijay

gilgamesh · 12-18-2006, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digvijay

Gilgamesh,

You are right. What bothers me most is the fact that these islamic invaders came from a cultureless background and ended up burning the ancient libraries of India at the two universities: Nalanda and Taxila. It is unimaginable how much valuable information about the past we lost becuase of this utterly stupid act of theirs.

Basham's "Cultural History of India" says: (Following excerpt from Page 193 of this book)

--begin quote
"The Turkish conquests of more then half India between 900 and 1300 A.D were perhaps the most destructive in human history. As Muslims, the conquerors aimed not only to destroy all other religions but also to abolish the secular culture. Their burning of libraries explains the large gaps in our knowledge of earlier literature......"
--end quote

Arthur Llewellyn Basham (AL Basham) was a historian with the Australian National University in Canberra. His most popular book is The Wonder That was India.
He joined the ANU in 1965 as Professor of Oriental (later Asian) Civilizations and retired in 1979. He died in Calcutta in India in 1986. An annual public lecture series is given at the ANU in his memory.

-Digvijay

Just last friday I purchased Basham's "Wonder that was India". So, I guess I'll have to finish that book before I get the one you have mentioned.

Samudra · 12-18-2006, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Also, read about Kulothunga Chola and Ramanuja.

Was that the first Kulothunga or the second ?

Jay · 12-18-2006, 16:56 PM

I did not know the answer but Wikipedia kinda helped me out.

Quote:

The traditional biographies of Ramanuja place his life in the period of 1017–1137, yielding a lifespan of 120 years. However, the unusual length and roundness of this lifetime has led scholars to propose that Ramanuja was born 20–60 years later, and died as many as 20 years later than the traditional dates. Any chronology depends crucially on the major historical event mentioned in the traditional biographies: the persecution of Vaishnavas under the Chola king Kulothunga and Ramanuja's subsequent 12-year exile in Melkote, in Karnataka.

In 1917, T. A. Gopinatha Rao proposed a chronology based on the traditional lifetime of 1017–1137. He identified the Chola king with Kulothunga Chola I (reigned 1070-1120), and dated the exile to Melkote from 1079 to 1126 CE (Rao 1923 cited in Carman 1974:45). However, this would extend the period of exile to 47 years, and in any case, Kulothunga I was not known for being an intolerate Shaivite.

A different chronology was proposed by T. N. Subramanian, an official in the Madras government (Subramanian 1957 cited in Carman 1974:45). This chronology identifies the Chola king with Kulothunga Chola II, who reigned from 1133–50 and was known for his persecution of Vaisnavites. It puts Ramanuja's exile from c. 1137 to 1148. Subramanian's hypothesis is aided by a fragment from the late Tamil biography Rāmānujārya Divya Caritai, which states that Ramanuja completed his most important work, the Śrībhāṣya, in 1155–56. Nevertheless, temple inscriptions in Karnataka indicate the presence of Ramanuja and his disciples before 1137. Carman (1974:45) hypothesizes that the traditional biographers conflated two different visits to Mysore into one. This later chronology has been accepted by several scholars, yielding a tentative lifetime of 1077–1157.

digvijay · 12-20-2006, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

I did not know the answer but Wikipedia kinda helped me out.

Jay,
These persecutions are singularities and not the norm.

-Digvijay

Jay · 12-20-2006, 15:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digvijay

Jay,
These persecutions are singularities and not the norm.

-Digvijay

No, it was not singular, at that time, any one following sects other than the one King follows (note: not religion) was not a great idea. Discrimination is a sort of persecution.

digvijay · 12-21-2006, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

No, it was not singular, at that time, any one following sects other than the one King follows (note: not religion) was not a great idea. Discrimination is a sort of persecution.

Jay,
What I meant was that not all Hindu kings of India engaged in persecution of other "hindu beliefs". What you mention is a singularity that is it happened but does not respresent the norm.

-Digvijay

Archer · 12-21-2006, 18:01 PM

In ancient (note, not medieval)- religious debate was the norm for conversion. That was one of the key ways in which Buddhism flourished (if a king converts, it becomes the state religion- if a priest converts so do his followers), but after a point, Hindu theoleogy caught up and Buddhisms impact receded. By the time Islam came into the Indian subcontinent, Hinduism was the majority belief system in what is today modern India, whilst significant portions of Buddhists were in what is today Afghanistan and Pak. They were unable to effectively resist the Islamic tide; in contrast, Hinduisms varna system, all its warts apart, had a well established framework to provide both physical (kshatriya) as well as theological (brahmana, priestly class) to offer resistance.

Jay · 12-21-2006, 20:10 PM

Digvijay,
What you seem to point out as singular was the norm back then, atleast thats what the evidences point to. The religion of the ruler is the religion of the state and the people.

digvijay · 12-22-2006, 14:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

Digvijay,
What you seem to point out as singular was the norm back then, atleast thats what the evidences point to. The religion of the ruler is the religion of the state and the people.

No not at all. Differences between shaiva and vaishnava were a purely local phenomena. Through out India Hindu kings were very tolerant of other religions. e.g Help given to Parsis etc.

-Digvijay

digvijay · 01-27-2007, 09:40 AM

Major update to the site. Sections updated:

Definition
Organization of Kings
Param Vir Chakra
Mahavir Chakra
Saints

-Digvijay

Ray · 01-27-2007, 15:10 PM

Indian history, as is being taught, is but a Communist conspiracy!

I know it is a sweeping statement, but let others prove otherwise.

I am ready to listen!

Tronic · 01-27-2007, 17:30 PM

Sir, and what would be the aim of such a conspiracy?

digvijay · 01-27-2007, 23:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronic

Sir, and what would be the aim of such a conspiracy?

The aim was concevied by Congress i.e the ruling government "to appease muslims in India" by not highlighting there misdeeds. How else can one explain having a road named after Aurangzeb in the heart of New Delhi?

And communism/socialism, one should remember was the Mantra of the most influential Congressi i.e Jawahar Lal Nehru himself. India's 5 year plan , concept of public sector industries etc are modelled after Soviet Union's system which Nehru loved. BTW Nehru wanted to introduce "socialist farming" concept, i.e state owning all the land and the serfs/peasants tilling the land and getting there share just like russia but other farmer leaders told him this was absurd idea and thankfully Nehru did not push it. (Nehru was told that he does not understand Indian villages, in which lives more then 75% of India's population, because in villages two brothers do not till there land jointly and the notion that multiple villages could be grouped into single farming entity is just an absurdity).

-Digvijay

12-21-2006, 18:01 PM	#54 (permalink)
Archer *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 10-13-03 Posts: 2,888	In ancient (note, not medieval)- religious debate was the norm for conversion. That was one of the key ways in which Buddhism flourished (if a king converts, it becomes the state religion- if a priest converts so do his followers), but after a point, Hindu theoleogy caught up and Buddhisms impact receded. By the time Islam came into the Indian subcontinent, Hinduism was the majority belief system in what is today modern India, whilst significant portions of Buddhists were in what is today Afghanistan and Pak. They were unable to effectively resist the Islamic tide; in contrast, Hinduisms varna system, all its warts apart, had a well established framework to provide both physical (kshatriya) as well as theological (brahmana, priestly class) to offer resistance. __________________ Karmani Vyapurutham Dhanuhu My bow is stretched for its task

01-27-2007, 15:10 PM	#58 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 27,232 Country:	Indian history, as is being taught, is but a Communist conspiracy! I know it is a sweeping statement, but let others prove otherwise. I am ready to listen! __________________ "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination." I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to. HAKUNA MATATA

01-27-2007, 17:30 PM	#59 (permalink)
Tronic Navajo Code Talker *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-27-04 Location: Patiala, India Posts: 5,364 Country:	Sir, and what would be the aim of such a conspiracy? __________________ *Nabha Sparasham Deeptam* *-Touch The Sky With Glory*

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12-21-2006, 20:10 PM	#55 (permalink)
Jay Tamizhanban *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-06-03 Location: Edison, NJ Posts: 6,345 Country:	Digvijay, What you seem to point out as singular was the norm back then, atleast thats what the evidences point to. The religion of the ruler is the religion of the state and the people.

01-27-2007, 09:40 AM	#57 (permalink)
digvijay Banished Join Date: 12-01-06 Posts: 88 Country:	Major update to the site. Sections updated: Definition Organization of Kings Param Vir Chakra Mahavir Chakra Saints -Digvijay

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