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Old 07-04-2004, 21:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
farooqr8
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PAF trying to induct 60 Gripen jets into fleet

PAF trying to induct 60 Gripen jets into fleet

By Mayed Ali

LAHORE: Through a deal thought to cost around Rs 156.6 billion, the Pakistan Airforce (PAF) is trying to induct 60 state-of-the-art jetfighters, Gripen (JAS-39), with the manufacturers, Gripen International - the conglomeration of Saab AB and BAE Systems.

These air-superiority combat aircrafts, come at a price-tag of $45 million (Rs 2.61 billion), and are considered the best overall bet in that category. The final delivery of planes to PAF, is expected within three years. The PAF and Saab Scania have already negotiated the deal. However, a final agreement between the Pakistan government and Gripen International is expected to be signed in a month or so, as the Saab AB awaits a green signal from the Swedish Government. President Pervez Musharraf’s visit to Sweden has assumed even greater significance against this backdrop. It is believed that the fate of the agreement will be decided if President Musharraf succeeds in convincing the Swedish and British governments to give a go-ahead nod to Gripen International. Pakistan also intends to purchase Airborne Early Warning planes, Argus, from Saab Scania as well.

The deal, should it materialise, will give the PAF an instant cushion of one squadron of Gripen within six months, and additional aircrafts at regular intervals. These aircrafts will on lease to Pakistan as a part of the aggressive marketing and innovative financing campaign of the Gripen International, until the deal’s completion. The squadrons will include twin-seat trainer aircrafts as well. The entire package will include the transfer of technology, besides sharing of latest research and consequential upgrades.

It is learnt the Gripen International has assured the PAF the delivery of aircrafts, the transfer of technology and upgrade programmes would not be hindered by any kind of sanctions except for the UN. The deal can, however, be dampened in case the US tries to influence both the governments not to allow the Gripen International to sell the fighters to Pakistan.

The Gripen is a frontline multirole, swingrole aircraft, and is considered a match for any sophisticated fourth-generation combat aircraft. Having a Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) system powered by Volvo RM12 engine, Gripen can attain a maximum speed of Mach 2. The aircraft has a digital fly-by-wire flight control system, which further enhances its manoeuvrability - an optimum agility at all speeds and altitudes. It has an established performance of flying supersonic at all altitude. Gripen can get airborne within a short span of one minute (scramble to take-off time). It can reach 50,000 feet (Maximum service ceiling) from standstill in just three minutes. The Hand on Throttle and Stick (HOTAS) control further ensures the best performance of the aircraft at stress times.

With a sophisticated computerised modern functional and weapon control system, Gripen is equipped with air-to-air, air-to-ground and air-to-sea operational capability. The platform is also capable of carrying out reconnaissance missions during peace and wartimes. The latest, hitech avionics enables the Gripen pilot to have a `look down-shoot down’ prowess. It is fitted with an Ericsson Radar, which can detect and lock-on multiple long-range targets. The aircraft can cage and shoot multiple targets at beyond visual range (BVR). The fighter can take on the hostile platform over 130 kilometres away.

In addition to this, the integrated datalink capability eases the burden on the pilot as information on all land, air and sea targets is available to all airborne, ground and sea platforms. That is, if a Gripen is flying over Kahuta and another is patrolling the shores of the country, both the platforms will share the data on targets through coloured multifunction displays (MFDs) in the cockpit.

This data will be shared by all ground and sea surveillance points as well. This is a state-of-the-art system, and matches the US equivalent JTIDS (Joint Tactical Information Display System). This system is generally called the Quick Reaction Alerts (QRA), and gives the fighter an edge in Combat Air Strike (CAS) and Combat Air Patrol (CAP) operations, besides reconnaissance.

Through this system, any aggressor in the air, land or sea can be engaged from the nearest facility on the ground, sea or in the air. This capability gets a prime support from Swedish Airborne Early Warning (AEW) platforms, S-100B Argus (SAAB 340B AEW). Pakistan is also looking for the purchase of some of these aircrafts for fully utilising the defence capability of Gripen. With this edge, Gripen’s low visual radar and infra-red signature makes it a safe platform in the air, having an edge over the enemy.
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Old 07-05-2004, 01:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
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SAAB has denied it will be selling Grips to Pakistan.
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Old 07-05-2004, 14:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
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SAAB has denied it will be selling Grips to Pakistan.
No it didn't, it just denied any deal was in place.
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Old 07-05-2004, 18:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The deal has moved forward, not finalized. Heck Israeli media is now quoting, it to be a 2.7bn $ deal. 5 Squadrons would be work out just sweet. Although I think it'll be more like 40 Gripens and 20 of something else cool we can get our paws on. If not, back to 20 more gripens. Since the ACM said they're going for 60 modern planes not, 60 gripens.

Lol, some Israeli media's also going like, Gripens can reach Israel! Musharraf is ditching US since he ditched American planes and went for European :D Talk about twisting the facts. We pursued American F-16 for I think a decade? At times they feel a bigger threat from Pakistani weapons than does India.

India does big business with Sweden though. About 10-20 times more than Pakistan. Might try to block it, although they'd have to present a strong case, which they don't. Blaming Pakistan for terrorism has been usual, but Sweden just gave an official statement praising Pakistan's role in the fight against terrorism. But anyway lets see.
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Old 07-05-2004, 23:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The deal has moved forward, not finalized. Heck Israeli media is now quoting, it to be a 2.7bn $ deal. 5 Squadrons would be work out just sweet. Although I think it'll be more like 40 Gripens and 20 of something else cool we can get our paws on. If not, back to 20 more gripens. Since the ACM said they're going for 60 modern planes not, 60 gripens.

Lol, some Israeli media's also going like, Gripens can reach Israel! Musharraf is ditching US since he ditched American planes and went for European :D Talk about twisting the facts. We pursued American F-16 for I think a decade? At times they feel a bigger threat from Pakistani weapons than does India.

India does big business with Sweden though. About 10-20 times more than Pakistan. Might try to block it, although they'd have to present a strong case, which they don't. Blaming Pakistan for terrorism has been usual, but Sweden just gave an official statement praising Pakistan's role in the fight against terrorism. But anyway lets see.
2.7 billion US? Where will Pakistan get the financing? Saudi Arabia again?
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Old 07-06-2004, 04:04 AM   #6 (permalink)
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A decade of minimal spending plus rising economy. Saudi's just give the mullah's of Pakistan money for 'various' agendas. Their generosity to the government is just tid bits. Heck they've had the back to buy these planes for about 2 yrs now, but they've just been denied purchase, due to political reasons. Gotta be 2.7bn US, since Sweden's currency's I think called Kroner and Pak is Rupee.

I think these are going to be some looooong talks. Sweden will make sure it doesn't piss off India. The Swedish President was asked about the Gripens and he confirmed that they were part of the talks but downplayed their importance. Adding that strict measures have to be undertaken before we sell our weaponry.
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Old 07-06-2004, 06:01 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Interesting. So what will Pakistan do with the Mirages acquired from Libya, as source of spares or interim working units while waiting for the Grips to go online?
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Old 07-06-2004, 06:51 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Probably. But umm Yes and No. Pakistan already operates a large number of Mirages. The Mirages purchased from Libya would probably be used for spares. Grips, IF the deal goes forward, we should see the some planes coming in PAF's service by 2008 (Guestimate). Remember Pakistan also has to go for J-10s from China.

But PAF is very big on avionics. One of the reason they're going for western planes and not waiting for the J-10. Since the J-10s that Pakistan purchases would have to be heavily modified with western avionics. We're probably be seeing them enter the chinese airforce by 2010. Perhaps an year or two later in Pakistani hands.

The deals with Sweden are not just limited to Gripens. They're also looking at the Erie Airborn Radar system from Ericsson. This deal would probably go forward. The Ericsson radar on the Gripen's might also appear as an option for JF-17s, which can target multiple targets in BVR. So I guess they're cool with the peace process. Sweden had called on Pakistan and India to make steps towards peace before they can allow it's sales. Yesterday Ericsson itself called on President Musharraf.

The Gripen IMO is the best choice for Pakistan from all the planes available to it. Sure Mirage and Rafale would've been good, but when it comes to avionics, this plane beats everything else in service, technologically. But the Grips have to be okayed by a several channels, as compared to French planes who're ready to sell if the money is good. Plus long military trade record with Pakistan, in sams, ATGMs, subs and planes.
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Old 07-06-2004, 11:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
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One should not gripe about the Gripen as if it's going to the terrorists or some equally horrible chaps. Indeed, others who have influence with Sweden would have ensured that the talks don't even go this far.

If it gives Pakistan confidence, then they must have it.

Let's be also very frank. If it is not the Gripen, then who can stop them from having another aircraft of equal capability? They can always get things from China and China gets it from Russia. So, there is no reason why one should unnecessarily get alarmed. Buying the best weapon is but only a part of statecraft.
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Old 07-06-2004, 12:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Stoner
2.7 billion US? Where will Pakistan get the financing? Saudi Arabia again?

haha. we aren't that poor man. Pakistan economy has prospored for the last few years. also in this year's budget, i think 6-7% is going to military spending and Pakistan Air Force is promised a huge chunk of it.
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Old 07-06-2004, 12:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I don't think India should have a problem with this because the Indian-Pakistani talks are going forward without any problems. plus a weeks India allowed Pakistan's entry in the Asian Regional Forum.
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Old 07-06-2004, 15:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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haha. we aren't that poor man. Pakistan economy has prospored for the last few years. also in this year's budget, i think 6-7% is going to military spending and Pakistan Air Force is pro
6-7% ?? you gotta be kidding. Pakistan will have real trouble then.Mind it, you still depend on ADB/IMF et all for infrastructure and other loans.


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I don't think India should have a problem with this because the Indian-Pakistani talks are going forward without any problems.
Dont think so. We will have problems when ever Pakistan buys some military equipment, you are still our adversary. But you got to do what you got to do, peace times or during war.
Pakistani administration is in the same mind set, they cried out loud when we purchased Phalcons and Akulas a couple months back. Its not personal but it happenes all the time.
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Old 07-06-2004, 19:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Pakistan's out of IMF's grasp since last year. There's still soem with WB and America, but that's not much. There was a time when almost all our revenues went into fixing loans.

The percentage of military spending has actually decreased. The increase in $ value is just a reflection of Pakistan's rapid economic recovery, I'm not saying the economy is our strong point, just that we've recovered at a super fast rate. Things can only get better now.

As Ray said, anyone with a problem so far would've opposed the deals so far. And India with all its trade with Sweden could influence the deals, true. Nothing has been signed yet. Pakistan was protesting the fact that India's been allowed to make purchases while Pakistan is being blocked similar purchases.

DefenceTalk.com reported that Gripen is awaiting the okay signal from the government. They've already discussed the $2.7 Billion amount for 60 planes. 45 Million a piece? I'm not sure about the world's gripen inventory, but I'd guess it'd make Gripen's biggest sale. Now it all comes down to the government of Sweden. The PM has been downplaying the defence deals.
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Old 07-06-2004, 19:44 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Pakistan's out of IMF's grasp since last year. There's still soem with WB and America, but that's not much. There was a time when almost all our revenues went into fixing loans.

The percentage of military spending has actually decreased. The increase in $ value is just a reflection of Pakistan's rapid economic recovery, I'm not saying the economy is our strong point, just that we've recovered at a super fast rate. Things can only get better now.

As Ray said, anyone with a problem so far would've opposed the deals so far. And India with all its trade with Sweden could influence the deals, true. Nothing has been signed yet. Pakistan was protesting the fact that India's been allowed to make purchases while Pakistan is being blocked similar purchases.

DefenceTalk.com reported that Gripen is awaiting the okay signal from the government. They've already discussed the $2.7 Billion amount for 60 planes. 45 Million a piece? I'm not sure about the world's gripen inventory, but I'd guess it'd make Gripen's biggest sale. Now it all comes down to the government of Sweden. The PM has been downplaying the defence deals.
What will the Grippen package mean for our JF-17 project? Can we afford inducting both?
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Old 07-07-2004, 07:42 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Sigh... Gripens have officially been denied. Back to J-10s.
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