ELECTION 2008 | The Pub | The Field Mess | The Staff College | Bookmark WAB



Go Back   World Affairs Board > International Strategic Affairs > South Asian Defense Topics
Register FAQ WAB RSS Feed Forum GuidelinesMembers List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Greetings, and welcome to the World Affairs Board!

The World Affairs Board is one of the premier forums for the discussion of the pressing geopolitical issues of our time. Topics include foreign & defense policy, international security, military developments, weapons proliferation, terrorism, international strategic affairs, and politics. Our membership includes many from military, defense industry, and government backgrounds with expert knowledge on a wide range of topics. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so why not register a World Affairs Board account and join our community today?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-21-2006, 04:51 AM   #1 (permalink)
lemontree
Bandaid
Military Professional
 
Join Date: 10-04-04
Location: India
Posts: 5,928
Understanding the enemy

Understanding Pakistan's Strategy

The Indian diplomatic attempt to stop the sale F-16s is at best a knee jerk reaction. I am not aware whether the Indian political and intelligence establishment has an understanding of the strategy adopted by Pakistan and if they have any plans to counter it. My understanding of the situation is as under (I would request Indian members to contribute without flaming – A match stick and humans both have heads, one burns with a little friction. Which head do we wish to have – the matchstick or the human head?)

Coming back to the topic. Till 9th September 2001, the Pakistani economy was on the verge of collapse, and its conventional military capability was severely depleted and Pakistan was getting nowhere in its aims of defeating India and had in fact harmed itself more.

9th September 2001 changed all that and Pakistan became an ally in the WOT, and the Pakistani establishment assumed that it could continue terror striking in India, but the Indian reaction after 13th December 2001, to mobilize the armed forces was un-nerving to Pakistan and the world. Inspite of all the rhetoric the Pakistanis knew that they would be clobbered in a war with India.

US intervention held India back, with pressure on Pakistan to denounce terror and the “usual be nice”, meaning that the terrorists should not cross a threshold unbeatable to India. Then following the terror attacks in UK and the direct implication of Pakistan in the 7/7 other international terror incidents, forced the ISI to calm down. Hence, the absence of any major incident abroad and minor incidents in India till the 7/11 terror attack.

What is at stake for Pakistan if it continued with its earlier policy?

Pakistan was liable to loose out on major military supplies if it seemed to be a terror supporting country. They had to talk and show the world that they are working sincerely to bring peace. Hence, the following steps were taken:

- A ceasefire was announced and guns fell silent on the LOC.
- Announcements were made by the ruling military dictator of Pakistan that “no Pakistani territory would be used by jihadi groups to cause terror in India”.
- Buses were started to help people on either side of the LOC to interact.
- Cricket matches were held, and the new bonhomie beamed by the media to the world showed hope for a changing era of animosity.
- Visits by the Indian and Pakistani diplomats to wither country started.
- “Banning” terror groups operating in Kashmir and India.

The US saw that the sub-continent has become peaceful and the threat of war had receded. Financial aid to Pakistan continued writing off all prior debts that had befallen the nation in the wake of the 1998 post nuclear test sanctions. The assistance in the WOT had helped Pakistan tide over its immediate economic problems. Now remained, strengthening the depleted military capability.

Pakistan had to now continue the charade of peace measures to ensure that military supplies required from the US don’t get stalled. If one noticed the Pakistani response to India accusations after the Mumbai blasts, that there was a sharp contrast from the previous such responses. Musharraff was mellow in a lounge suit (khaki was avoided) and looked the picture of innocence when he “offered to help India in the investigations”, and his “pleas” of not blaming Pakistan without proof. What would Pakistan do with hard proof, if presented? They will simply refute it.

The global powers that matter are happy as long as there is no war that upsets their apple cart in the region.

So what are the options open to India?
Passive measures:
- Call Pakistan’s bluff, give them proof for terrorist bases in Pakistan and show it to the world as well.
- Prevent Pakistan’s access to the Indian market and elsewhere in the region where India can influence matters, even if it is tantamount to economic blackmail.
- Look eastwards and develop the highway linking South East Asia with India.
- No dialogue on Kashmir.

Active measures:
The fallacy of old age belief that a stable and secure Pakistan is a beneficial to India and the region must have dawned to many an observer. The more stable Pakistan gets – the more rabid their army become towards India. The only solution is a harried and weak Pakistani Army.

- Develop the Balochi and Gilgit insurgencies.
- Proactive elimination of terrorist leaders and ISI officials in PoK and Nepal, irrespective of diplomatic immunity.
- Harsh measures in J&K, arresting all separatist Hurriyat leaders (their boycott of the peace talks indicates collusion with Pakistani designs).
- Use the Punjab method, of an eye for an eye.
- Scrap Article 370. Get the Kashmiri Pundits back into the valley.
- Develop the dams on the Jhelum and Chenab.
- Engage Bangladesh and work towards elimination of ISI’s operation and support bases.
__________________

Cheers!...on the rocks!!

Last edited by lemontree : 07-21-2006 at 05:02 AM.
lemontree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 04:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
Archer
Senior Contributor
 
Archer's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Posts: 2,888
LT

I think India should put the pressure on Pak anywhich way they can & maintain it. The F-16s are ok, the armaments package is not- the more we press on this issue the better for us & the IAF at wartime.

Frankly, in the ballyhoo over the nuke deal, we have compromised too much. I hate to say this, but the UPA is pathetic but the institutional malaise in the babucracy is far worse.

I propose the above as a passive measure & fully agree with all your other measures!

Finally, a kindred spirit!
__________________
Karmani Vyapurutham Dhanuhu

My bow is stretched for its task
Archer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 05:14 AM   #3 (permalink)
lemontree
Bandaid
Military Professional
 
Join Date: 10-04-04
Location: India
Posts: 5,928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer
LT
I think India should put the pressure on Pak anywhich way they can & maintain it. The F-16s are ok, the armaments package is not- the more we press on this issue the better for us & the IAF at wartime.
Your concern is valid. But as a former infantier and a student of COIN and insurgency, those F-16s can be fried any time with a section 81mm or 120mm mortars, by a band of guerillas. A trained bunch of guerillas can keep the GE F-16 factory running in Texas as PAF would need replacements for those F-16 sqns.
lemontree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 09:28 AM   #4 (permalink)
667medic
Military Professional
 
667medic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-22-05
Posts: 1,532
Country:
Quote:
Active measures:
The fallacy of old age belief that a stable and secure Pakistan is a beneficial to India and the region must have dawned to many an observer. The more stable Pakistan gets – the more rabid their army become towards India. The only solution is a harried and weak Pakistani Army.
Amen to that.
Pakistan was supposed to be more developed than S.Korea in 1965, it seems that the S.Koreans even sent an economic delegation there to study the "miracle".
That never stopped Pak from launching the 65 war.
GOI must follow a policy of no mercy for the enemey........
__________________
Seek Save Serve Medic
667medic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 09:29 AM   #5 (permalink)
667medic
Military Professional
 
667medic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-22-05
Posts: 1,532
Country:
BTW, I am seriously surprised that the bureaucrats don't seem to have even half the brain as Cpt LT.
667medic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 09:31 AM   #6 (permalink)
667medic
Military Professional
 
667medic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-22-05
Posts: 1,532
Country:
Quote:
Scrap Article 370. Get the Kashmiri Pundits back into the valley.
Is it possible to arm the Pundits and the Ladakhis with proper weapons....
667medic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 11:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
vinay60000
Banished
 
vinay60000's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-17-06
Location: india
Posts: 196
sir we had given them aerial photos of the terrosrist camp few years ago i donot think any thing happened ,if you remember india had claimed that pakistan is involved in illegal nuke operation but pakistan never accepted it but when western goverment came with proof only then they accepted thier deed ,this people will not take any thing by indians even hard proof will be insufficent for them
vinay60000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 12:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
Maximus
OMGWTFPWNED!
Senior Contributor
 
Maximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-31-04
Location: India
Posts: 876
Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemontree
Active measures:
The fallacy of old age belief that a stable and secure Pakistan is a beneficial to India and the region must have dawned to many an observer. The more stable Pakistan gets – the more rabid their army become towards India. The only solution is a harried and weak Pakistani Army.

- Develop the Balochi and Gilgit insurgencies.
- Proactive elimination of terrorist leaders and ISI officials in PoK and Nepal, irrespective of diplomatic immunity.
- Harsh measures in J&K, arresting all separatist Hurriyat leaders (their boycott of the peace talks indicates collusion with Pakistani designs).
- Use the Punjab method, of an eye for an eye.
- Scrap Article 370. Get the Kashmiri Pundits back into the valley.
- Develop the dams on the Jhelum and Chenab.
- Engage Bangladesh and work towards elimination of ISI’s operation and support bases.
Amen to that. Attack is the best form of defense. Even in Proxy wars.

By the way, the Punjab method reminds me, where is K P S Gill. I wonder why after such a success in countering terrorists in Punjab, why was he not sent to J&K.

Politics. Middlemen.

But we need to clean-up our system as well. Fear the enemy that lies within.

Intelligence(IB) had the knowledge of Mumbai's Blasts in advance. Why was nothing done to stop it from happening?

Do you actually think that Blasts can happen without the IB having the prior hint of it? Politics again.

I have a friend who is a Major in the Army. Currently posted near Pathankot. He says, if need be, it would taken less than 6 hours to take Lahore.

He says it is better to die once than to die a thousand times. And this emotion echoes in the voice of every young Indian.

I say, why any politician's son is not serving in the Armed Forces. Let them serve, and die for the country. Then you'll see all the Problems from our western border dissipate in a matter of days.
__________________
Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage.
Maximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 14:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
Archer
Senior Contributor
 
Archer's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Posts: 2,888
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemontree
Your concern is valid. But as a former infantier and a student of COIN and insurgency, those F-16s can be fried any time with a section 81mm or 120mm mortars, by a band of guerillas. A trained bunch of guerillas can keep the GE F-16 factory running in Texas as PAF would need replacements for those F-16 sqns.
LT, given the past history of Indo-Pak conflicts I think it would be very hard if not impossible for an insurgent group to get at those F-16's. IMHO, the planes are not such an issue as are their munitions- India should lobby to make these birds fancy toys, ie all shiny & stuff but without the #'s of munitions Pak has asked for, that actually make them a threat.
Archer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 14:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
Archer
Senior Contributor
 
Archer's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Posts: 2,888
Quote:
Originally Posted by 667medic
BTW, I am seriously surprised that the bureaucrats don't seem to have even half the brain as Cpt LT.
They are craven players of power politics. Kissing a politicians ass and making a high office is the ultimate solace for a babu, not ensuring that India's security is finally guaranteed- for as long as possible anyways. That job is left to the next incumbent. Sure, there are many good apples- but the a$s ki$$ers have risen to the top, ie the present NSA.
Archer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 22:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
Akshay
formerly ab041937
Senior Contributor
 
Akshay's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-27-05
Posts: 1,523
Country:
Capt. LT, I am sure if not an armyman you would've certainly been a news editor. Your stature as a poster is unparallel amongst Indians on WAB.
__________________
If at first you don't succeed, call it v1.0!
Akshay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 11:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
platinum786
Banished
 
platinum786's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-14-04
Posts: 1,986
Gilgit is a non issue folks, nobody cares what a few people do there, nobody cares how hard they are crushed, as long as they are crushed. Also your too late with Bugti, in the last 3 weeks over 70 commanderes including bugti's own family have surrendered, 900 fighters from his side and the accounts of the 42 most influental people in his tribe have been frozen, with no money to buy mercanaries we'll see what Bugti will do.

I can garuntee if we put a price o his head of a few million dollars his own children will hand him to us.

come on, lets get those creative juices flowing, let see what else you can come up with.
platinum786 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006, 17:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
Archer
Senior Contributor
 
Archer's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Posts: 2,888
I guess that must be why you boys get so worked up over "RAW in Baluchistan" etc etc..and the tons of lurid prose against them pesky infidels..

I mean tough talk apart, when the shoe is on the other foot, it sure pinches! And badly at that!
Archer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2006, 00:39 AM   #14 (permalink)
lemontree
Bandaid
Military Professional
 
Join Date: 10-04-04
Location: India
Posts: 5,928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer
LT, given the past history of Indo-Pak conflicts I think it would be very hard if not impossible for an insurgent group to get at those F-16's. ....
Archer,
Only, because its never been tried.
lemontree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2006, 00:46 AM   #15 (permalink)
lemontree
Bandaid
Military Professional
 
Join Date: 10-04-04
Location: India
Posts: 5,928
Quote:
Originally Posted by 667medic
Is it possible to arm the Pundits and the Ladakhis with proper weapons....
Village defence platoons (VDPs) are instituted, but it is difficult for them to defend a village as villages in those mountains are spread over a large distance. A more compact re-organisation of villages (like the kibbutz defences of Israel in the 1940s) need to be undertaken for VDPs to be effective.

This structure will also encourage formation of agri co-op societies to enhance revenue generation of the smaller farmers.
lemontree is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Articles and links for the Military Professional Officer of Engineers The Staff College 115 11-20-2006 11:28 AM
Principles of War for the Battlefield of the Future Ray The Field Mess 2 11-05-2006 10:42 AM
T-55 VS M48 Patton RepublicanGuard Land Forces 23 05-12-2006 15:24 PM
Current Situation in Tall Afar Shek The War in Iraq 5 02-17-2006 09:05 AM
Aiding and Abetting the Enemy: the Media in Iraq Leader The Western Alliance 2 01-21-2005 22:53 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:51 AM.


Rochen is the business hosting sponsor of World Affairs Board and a provider of reseller web hosting services.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC8