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MSgt,Originally Posted by Bluesman
You might be interested in this
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sho...6687#post66687
A very interesting what-might-have-been.
Chimo
Yep, there ya go. And anytime the DPRK wants to do their massive SOF sneak-attack all over Osan Airbase, we're going to need to be at least as proficient as the attacking force, or our big plan to defend the peninsula goes to hell. I'd sure hate to think it would be because we're not training often enough with the most basic infantry weapon, the hand grenade.
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
Puts the gray hair on your head, I bet.
As I'm sure you agree, familiarity and confidence with ANY weapon makes you better with it. A rifle can be weilded as anything from ineffective to absolutely deadly to the enemy. But a grenade can be anything from absolutely deadly to your enemy when used correctly, or to one's own side if it ain't.
That's why, as a young buck sergeant, I summoned up enough guts to ask my leadership to train us LOTS more on the grenade range, and they came to see my point. Too bad it never happened, and I sure hope that's been corrected...but I bet it hasn't.
Last edited by Bluesman; 26 Nov 05, at 07:13.
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
Ain't that the truth, sir? I'm sure I've made a few of my superiors clench up their butt cheeks a time or two.A very valid and important point. This is one reason I use to make a special effort with new recruits when they got posted to my company. The new recruits have a unflinching capacity to give you a heart attack at the age of 25.
An old company commander that I knew back in Germany had a phrase that he used to say whenever one of his soldiers found a new way to mess up (which was pretty much constantly): "Joe won't do right." Meaning, whenever 'Joe' (any American soldier) had a chance to mess up, he'd never pass it by.
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
"When the pin is removed, Mr Grenade is not our friend."
or perhaps:
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of your unit" - Supposedly from PM Magazine, the Army's magazine of preventive maintenance.
Haha. Speaking of...
We had just come back from an ass-wiping 'mission' if you could call it that (Being babysitters, basically), and we were all tired as hell so while we stood around waiting for our word, some schmuck with the 203 let himself go, and it exploded into a wall near us. We were all too tired to even flinch, but I'll be damned if I didn't see a Cpl walk up to him and lay him flat out on the ground.
Oh well. I'll see you guys in January. No more computer for me here after today.
Last edited by AmericanMarine; 26 Nov 05, at 23:56.
Haha, that's one detrimental way of coping with stress but... whatever works!
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man
A Marine on-the-spot correction to a 'training definciency': a punch in the head.
A kind of 'physical demerit', so to speak.
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
PS - The M16 is jamming so much due to retards oiling it in the middle of a frikkin desert ;-)
Yep, that sounds about right.
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man
The force protection and Osan and Kunsan aren't really there to protect against North Korea invading there is no way in hell they'd be able to stand longer than it takes to evacuate the base. When I had orders to the blackcats (5th reconissance squardon) my pre breifings made it pretty clear we were speedbumps and tripwires. Force protection on airbases can't and won't be able to protect it against a detiremined attack by any army. There are simply not enough SP's and augies to do it. North Korea has 1 million+ active army members and 4 million in reserves. South Korea has about 1 million less, While South Korea is more capable they would be over run, especially considering the fact that Seoul is within range of well over 1000 North Korean artillery tubes many capable delivering chemical weapons. Its a case of stalemate merely because in the week to two weeks it'd take Kim to overrun most of south korea. (he'd be doing the old extending his forces compressing a spring type of deal) The US and China would be preparing forces to Unite Korea without a government in Pongyang. Personally I don't think Kim's crazy enough to do it but it's hard to ever tell with that guy. The amount of hand gernade and small arms traing US personal Korea receive will do nothing without the Souths military which I have to imaigne would be in quite a disarray from the artillery barrage of the government.
The best part about the Inchon landings is that they would work just as well in 2005 as they did in the 50s, lol.
I am sure the DPRK has made this realization.
I agree with you on this sniper.... I was just pointing out that no matter how much hand gernade practice or small arms practice the US gives their SP's on force protection in korea it doesn't help a whole lot.
OF COURSE they couldn't stop an army.What their mission is is to stop and protect against SOF grab-ops, infiltration, sabotage, assassination and the like. Say, a whole bunch of An-2 COLTs dropped their airborne sniper brigades on Osan AB. Say, large numbers of the Recon outfits and light infantry formations (SOF-lite, and in no way comparable to OUR SOF, either in doctrine, training, equipment, or...expendability) infiltrate through the heavily-enagaged front lines in the first hours of the war. It would fall to the Security Forces guys and their augmentees to stop them, round up the strays, and keep the base secure enough to operate. The OPLAN absolutely DEPENDS on Osan and Kunsan being up and running. They won't be, if the SOF gooks are throwing satchel charges into briefing rooms, machine-gunning the maintainance hangars, and zapping the commanders and their HQ staffs.
In all of those circumstances, grenade training really should have been more than an annual training requirement for the Prime BEEF guys, because it dam' sure is for the Bad Guys. Kind of like I was saying in my original point.
But DUH, when an MBT pulls up the main gate and it has a portrait of the Chonger on the side...game over.
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
The anti-SOF mission is actually of critical importance for the initial defense of the ROK.
I don't hold out much hope that we'd do very well at stopping them without actionable advanced warning.
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