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About LinkBacksDoes anybody have performance reports on the MASADA? I don't know, the design isn't really anything to get me excited about.
M-16A2 5.56mm
M-4 5.56mm
SIG-552 5.56mm
G-3 7.62mm
G-36 5.56mm
AUG 5.56mm
FAMAS 5.56mm
FNC 5.56mm
L-85A2 5.56mm
IMI Galil 5.56mm
AK-47 7.62mm
AK-74 5.56mm
AK-101 5.56mm
AK-103 7.62mm
TKB-517 7.62mm
I hope the PDR comes out civilian legal. That thing looks downright awesome. Unfortunately Magpul doesn't have the lobbying power to actually get a national contract... not just from the US, but in general.
In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158
The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea
Does anybody have performance reports on the MASADA? I don't know, the design isn't really anything to get me excited about.
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man
[5.56]Originally Posted by Recon_sgt
Ah the AK, a deadly weapon in the right hands but to answer your question yes the Steyr AUG is good. In fact it isn't merely good it is an excellent weapon. Durable, versatile, light, accurate and simple all describe that rifle (I could be accused of bias but it really is an excellent piece of equipment). I have heard the Aussies had some trouble with their own version but we in Ireland have a used it for many years and have never had reason to doubt it (straight from Steyr Mannlicher Austria). I speak from user experience with the AUG and not merely on its aesthetics.
D
I would agree with you on the Steyer Aug A1, good weapon, size and weight good..... Ambidextrous (nice feature to have in a weapon). It is a tad expensive...the one thing I dont like on it is the scope.
G36k....typical HK good build and quality...but dont like it. Good accuracay within 50m not so good within 150-200m and beyond that even worse.
Also forarm gets to hot when rapid fireing.
L85-A2 Like the design (bull pop), and since A2 mods has become quiet a reliable and accurate weapon, is very good with accuracy using the susat sight.
M4A1 Like its size/length and its MWS. Cant complain about it, needs good maintanence, but once done relaible, havent had many problems with it, apart form getting a bit hot, after continous use/rapid fire.
Famas find it abit to cumbersome (and too French :-) for my likeing
[7.62]
G3...what can I say...work hoarse, reliable (not to sure what was going on with Big K use of one. Good stoping power love the thing. Only snag is its big and heavy. no good for cqb unless you going throw it and someones Head.!
as for the AK 47 being the best...I think not. yes its good in reliabilty and drag thro **** and probably still fire, and its cheap, but i dont like it for accuracy nor recoil. which for me are somewhat important.
I suppose for countries with low GDP's and purchasing power, its a good choice to kit out.
Another one which would make my first choice list, which is not on the list is the FN FAL L1A1 [Brit version] very good weapon, very reliable and simple to use and work with, but suffers the same problem as the G3, it is even heavier.
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I cant seem nor able to choose just one weapon which I would claim is the best.
Wepaons are tools to an end goal, each one has its good points/bad points.
which are subjected to users experience and ideals.
You will choose the right tool for which mission/role, you are given to do.
Also Each weapon will function differentley depending on its operator and how proficiant he is with that particular weapon at hand.
I cant speak for weapons i have not used, nor going to. so have put my two pence worth, with the ones i have played and have had experiences with.
My choices [if i had a choice to choose form...not always the case] are as follows....
Out from the 5.56 i would choose the M4A1 and L85-A2
Out from 7.62 I would choose the G3A2.
Last edited by Simullacrum; 13 Jun 07, at 12:22.
More love for the L85-A2 please.
Oh an some1 start importing it so us Brits dont feel all bullied!
From what I have read the L85-A2 is a major improvement and scored very highly on all its tests. Still a bit heavy tho
SCAR short for Special Forces Combat Assault Rifle is intended for just that Special Forces it would need massive modifications to become a mass produced infantry weapon and what you would end up with is pretty much the Masada
A most comprehensive list Simulacrum, the A1 was quite good and I must say the A2 is an excellent weapon also. As for the sight, I like it but thats merely for either of us a matter of preference I believe. The G-36 on the other hand, the standard original version I found to be an excellent weapon but I'm afraid I have little experience with the variations so if you have the time please elaborate further on this.
D
they have us surrounded, the poor bastards.
Hey sgt,
How goes it over in kildare.?
In regards to the G36 familly, dont get me wrong they are bloody good weapons typical of HK which im a big fan of, always have been since i first started palying around with the G3 familly.
There are 4 varients.
1. HK G36
2. G36K Carbine
3. G36c
4. G36K-AG36
Out of the 4 my prefrence would be the G36c, it is good for cqb using 5.56 amo.
(my personal favouite for cqb, between 50-100m is the MP5/10A3 different thread)
anyhow back at hand....
G36 familly....
+ weight good between 2.8 to 3.6kg [36c to mg36].
+ modular design, can be set up into any variant with certain tools.
+ Very robust (manu states cleaning after every 5000 rounds) and reliable, small recoil.
+ amidextrous
+ dual sighting optic system
+- *acurracy great within 15-50 metre especially the c variant, sits well. 100+ metres acuracy trnds to fall somewhat..between 2" to 3"
groupings. (shoulder fired no sling no bi-pod).
*Heavy trigger pull (saftey, it is supposed withstand a 2 meter drop test cocked and sfatey on..personally i havent tried this)
*Forarm heats up very quickly under sustained rapid fire, to a point where
one would find it difficult to grasp.(If im not mistaken HK are supposed to be makeing/testing heat shield for it]
- proprietary magazine [non nato]
To be honest with me I dont know where it actually fits with my requirements..(well more to my stuborness) at the end of the day its another tool to get the job done.
Definetley not goning to replace the mp5's...you aint going to use a 5.56 calibre weapon in a hostage situation within cqb confinment.
Airport security auch as heathrow use the mp5 family for the same very reason.
The SAS have not aquired them...a handfull are being tested, as we speak in operation in afghan.
The police have taken quite a bit in there invetory. Some people i know have similar views to mine, and dont like the acuarcy over 100-150m.
Last edited by Simullacrum; 14 Jun 07, at 00:16.
I'm personally curious as to why Similacrum chose the G3 rather than the SLR as his 7.62 × 51 mm NATO battle rifle of choice? I found that the G3, while shorter than the SLR, produced more felt recoil(no adjustable gas setting), and much greater muzzle blast ("flash"dosen't adequately describe it). Both of these factors contributed to much slower follow up shots and target re-acquisition, for me at least. They are both beasts compared to later generation weapons using th 5.56x45 NATO round.
I've had the opportunity to fire a civillian AUG, and thought it was cool, but ergonomically awkward for someone whose muscle-memory is built around the AR series. My experiment with timed mag changes was a complete disaster. Gotta love a full sized barrel out of a carbine sized package. I also heard that the MoD was looking for a replacement for SUSAT, and considering the ACOG, or ELCAN. I've never had the pleasure to use the SUSAT, but both the replacement options are of high quality and would take good advantage of the 20" bbl of the L85.
I've not had the opportunity to lovingly fondle a G36/416, as HK dosen't let us lowly civillians play with their august mil-tech. But from what I understand, the only real (as opposed to theoretical) advantage it brings to the table is that its piston operating system seems to function better in the 12" or shorter bbl than comparable bbl length weapons using direct impingement. In the standard bbl length, it simply dosen't bring to the table anything that the M16 series can't. It's claim to fame is that it can go something like 20,000 rds without cleaning, vice the 5,000 rounds an M4/16 can go. Must be some kind of soldier that goes 5,000 rds w/o cleaning his weapon!
I, personally, have never really understood the "best assault rifle" comparison. All of these weapons are by their vary nature, compromises. All of the weapons listed, and I'd throw in the FNC, and SIG 5XX series for good measure, will kill the opponent deader than cancer within 300 meters, and are more accurate than the soldiers shooting them at that range. All are reliable enough if the soldier does his/her job, and all have in one variant, or another, succesfully withstood combat in pretty much every sh!@hole, backwater, hell on earth warzone to be found on Mother Gaia...including FaMAS. All are a series of tradeoffs within certain parameters, with preferrence being just that, rather than definitive superiority. When we have a weapon that fires a .270-280 cal. caseless round from a bullpup configuration with a magazine in front of the trigger guard, we'll be in the business of defining true superiority.
Cato
Last edited by cato; 14 Jun 07, at 01:39.
reson for prefrence of the g3 over SLR, is cuase SLR 's are harder to come by nowerdays. I would say that the FN was most probably the best 7.62mm rifle out there....but time has been somewhat creul to it, and has been layed out to pastures rest.
G3 still in service and a very compatant weapon, with many variants, and updates.
Which G3 variant did you play with.? G3A3 is very diffeernt to the G3 that originally came out.
Similacrum,
It's interesting that you bring up the overheating foregrip of the G36. One of the biggest turn offs for the U.S. Army with the M8 (G36's Battlestar Galactica bastard cousin) was that the plastic of the foregrip melted under sustained (semi-auto, not burst) firing. Not simply overheated, but straight up melted.
I was also under the impression that the M855 round was superior to the M882 in CQB and HR. From people much smarter than I, I was informed that the M855 will fragment upon entering the target, causing multiple nasty wound cavities, while the M882 dosen't deform, and retains it's ogive throughout its terminal phase, exiting the target and going beyond. The U.S military has pretty much dispensed with the SMG in favor of the SBR.
Thanks,
Cato
Hey Similacrum!
I had an opportunity to play with a pre-ban HK91, and I've gotta say, I wasn't that impressed. Big, heavy as hell, and no bullsh@#, gave me singed eyebrows, and a ringing in my ears for a day or two. I fired a couple of SLRs, one Rhodesian inch pattern, and one FAL built off a Brizillian IMBEL metric reciever. I honestly felt that the HK was so much stamped metal crap, while the SLR/FAL felt like I was holding a MAN'S rifle. Again, we're talking personal preferance. I know several firearms afficianadoes who prefer the M14-M1A to both.
That being said, the FAL wasn't known as the "Right Arm of the Free World" for nothing. The number of nations who used the FAL dwarfs the rather modest number of nations who use(d) the G3. Neither weapon holds up against their modern competetors, and two of the three major users of the G3 are converting to the G36/416 (Norway, Pakistan). Mexico has already gone to an unliscenced copy of the G36. G3 vs. SLR? I'll take an M16A4, or a C8, thank you!
Cato
@Simillacrum
They already fixed the overheating handguards on the G36 with a heat shield a long time ago.
And I agree, the G3 has significant muzzle blast. But you know you're firing a man's rifle when you shoot it.
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man
there are mnay variants of the 5.56 with differing particualrs and performance.
I would not consider the M855 as the best of the 5.56, i much prefer the
M193.
The m855 will not fragment if they strike at a velocity of anything less then 2500fps. between 2500-2700fps may fragment, for fragmentation to occur it must reach 2700+fps.
its more of a long range performer then close.
Depending in barrel size and amo quality an m855 round will reach the distance to 2700fps as follows:-
--------------------
Barrel - distance to 2700fps
--------------------
20" Barrel - 140-150m,
16" Barrel - 90-95m,
14.5" Barrel -45-50m
11.5" Barrel - 12-15m.
these are round about figures, as temp, humidity, altitude have an effect.
as for the g36k, we havent adopted them, i havent played for some years now, so not sure if it has or has not got the heat sheild.
I was under the impression that the FX-05 Xiuhcoatl was not a copy of the G36V but in fact an original system that happens too look damn close HK had some guys check it out and came back saying that ti looks close but no infringement.
one of the main troubles with XM8 was not technical but political infighting in the army.
The FX05 uses long-stroke operation, whereas the G36 uses short-stroke (which is superior). It has a different buttstock, carrying handle, and optical sight. Other than that, it's pretty much a copy.
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man
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