Thread: Best SMG?

Accepting that the sub machine gun / machine pistol is a short range only weapon, and thus has certain innate limitations, the best I have ever used was the Sterling which was controlable and accurate.

That thing scared the crap out of me with uncontrolled fire.

Originally Posted by cottage cheese

That would be the snap attachment tongue for the standard 3 point H&K tactical sling. The rear end of the sling is a metal hoop which slips under the rear swivel and loops back to allow the front end of the sling to go through it.
The user's shoulder goes through the loop that is formed by the arrangement. The 'hook' on the magazine well is positioned so as to snap lock the metal hoop. This allows the weapon to be carried secure and tight on the chest. All the user has to do is to point and pull the gun forward, the hoop springs free and the whole sling assembly extends to optimal length and flexibility while still securely strapped around the user. Pretty cool idea but I guess with muzzle down carriage that is current it's not used too much nowdays.

Thanks. I figured out that this is mostly a useless attachment and that it's better if I don't use it.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

That thing scared the crap out of me with uncontrolled fire.

It's just a case of developing the right grip for short bursts. A full magazines worth on auto would certainly pull high and to the right. Single shot is the way as it is so accurate, and it will fire as fast as the firer can pull the trigger. By the way, for everyday use (including combat) the standard 9mm ammo was used. The cases are obviously brassy, but there is a superior ammunition available for it, which makes the cases look more silver than brassy. The only time I've known this to be used was on a range 'jolly' set up for senior officers! What an outrageous example of waste and misuse of an asset. I was livid, but as a lowly major awaiting retirement I did not rebel as I should have done. I have reflected on this many times over the years and greatly regret not speaking my mind at the time.

Originally Posted by glyn

Accepting that the sub machine gun / machine pistol is a short range only weapon, and thus has certain innate limitations, the best I have ever used was the Sterling which was controlable and accurate.

Hello Glyn,

Though I have never fired the Sterling SMG, I have handled a few and based on my experience with a few other SMGs, I think the Sterling looks very, very good.

The Sterling strikes me as very nice for prone firing compared to some of its competitors and that humble prone position strikes me as being tactically the most useful for many people and circumstances.

I would not characterize the SMG as a short range weapon, at least in the 9 x 19 chambering, for I have found them to be usefully accurate at 200 meters. Of course, I guess it depends upon what you consider to be short range, however.

Given my level of skill, I suspect what I consider a long shot for me is probably only half, maybe 60% at best of what someone like M21 Sniper might consider a far piece .

My experience is that a reasonably competent shooter with long arms up to the task can shoot under field conditions pretty well out to 400 to 500 meters in the best of circumstances so that would make a 9 x19 SMG of good make a near-side-of-medium range proposition.

Anyhow...

Speaking of the Sterling SMG, I found Edminston's "The Sterling Years" to be a good book for the small arms enthusiast. A bit egoncentric, perhaps, but worth the trouble.

Happy Christmas,

William

[QUOTE=Swift Sword;314355]



The Sterling strikes me as very nice for prone firing compared to some of its competitors and that humble prone position strikes me as being tactically the most useful for many people and circumstances.

I would not characterize the SMG as a short range weapon, at least in the 9 x 19 chambering, for I have found them to be usefully accurate at 200 meters. Of course, I guess it depends upon what you consider to be short range, however.

On the range details we would typically start at 200 metres, then a run down to 100 metres (with magazine removed) and finally at 50 metres IIRC. With the electronic targets that fell when hit it was obvious how accurate it was on single shot. At short ranges (up to 100 metres) the short burst of 2 or 4 rounds kept the SMG under control. In desert conditions the dust raised by impacting rounds proved to be a great guide. My two kills with the Sterling were with single shot selected, and if I had to go into combat again (awfully unlikely!) I would be pleased to have a Sterling as my personal arm.

I would be pleased to have a Sterling as my personal arm.

Militaries seem to never throw anything away. I checked out of the armory and fired just about every weapon they had. Much fun. I checked out a Stirling (and an Owen) and found it a serviceable weapon. I just liked my Uzi a lot better.

I think if I could selected an MP-5 as my duty weapon I would have done so. I think it's probably the most accurate SMG going. Maybe the only one realistically capable of effective long range fire.

IMHO the utility of a SMG lies in it's handiness and pointability. In combat your actual rates of fire are higher due to the ease and quickness in which you can put fire on the target. This means you take much less time to acquire your target. You can make a "snap" shot and extend your fire easier than with an assault rifle. When you're in a "scoot and shoot" situation this means you're firing ahead of everyone else that has an assault rifle. I found SMGs to have a very pronounced psychological effect on both the using and receiving troops in combat.

Aimed automatic fire is another story. Most of the time assault rifles are better. By assault rifles I mean the ones I have combat experience with, the FAL, AK-47 and R-5.

I would not characterize the SMG as a short range weapon, at least in the 9 x 19 chambering, for I have found them to be usefully accurate at 200 meters. Of course, I guess it depends upon what you consider to be short range, however.

I found SMGs are very accurate at short (up to 150m) range. When firing at targets past 200m I found instead of a single burst it was taking 2 or 3 bursts to put it down.

I'm sure the 9x19 cartridge COULD be used for longer range shooting with a longer barrel, etc. Look at all the carbines chambered for .357!

I have never fired an Uzi, so I cannot comment. That thing is a machine pistol with a tiny barrel length and a very rapid cyclic rate of fire. I expect it gobbles up the ammo, so the firer has to carry more - presumably in the form of loaded mags. I would doubt its accuracy beyond pistol range - but as I say I have no experience and am willing to listen to the experienced. Pointability is vital, I agree. Weight is important if you are carrying whatever weapon around, day in and day out. It goes without saying that the soldiers personal weapon needs to be robust and utterly reliable. However, it is not likely that we will agree what is best as we have been conditioned by experience to certain types, and of course new types are appearing all the time. Progress? Schmogress!

Originally Posted by glyn

I have never fired an Uzi, so I cannot comment. That thing is a machine pistol with a tiny barrel length and a very rapid cyclic rate of fire. I expect it gobbles up the ammo, so the firer has to carry more - presumably in the form of loaded mags. I would doubt its accuracy beyond pistol range - but as I say I have no experience and am willing to listen to the experienced. Pointability is vital, I agree. Weight is important if you are carrying whatever weapon around, day in and day out. It goes without saying that the soldiers personal weapon needs to be robust and utterly reliable. However, it is not likely that we will agree what is best as we have been conditioned by experience to certain types, and of course new types are appearing all the time. Progress? Schmogress!

I agree we are all conditioned by experience. It seems common to prefer the weapon you were issued and trained with. Ask any retired US military man and he will swear that the Garand and the BAR are the best weapons ever devised by man. My father was one of those people. Made for good discussions.

In that same vein I prefer the Uzi. It was my primary duty during my years as a soldier. As an observer years later I ask for an received an Uzi as my weapon of choice. It was an utterly reliable weapon under adverse conditions and in any weather. I turned one in that had been run over by a tank. Even with a bent barrel it would still cycle ammunition.

Weighing eight pounds it is impractical to use as a pistol. You need to use both hands and I almost never fired it without the stock extended. You can fire it single shot but I did so only on rare occasions. The ten inch barrel gives reasonable accuracy out to maybe 200m. The smaller 9mm cartridge makes the 650 RPM rate of fire controllable. Having the magazine in the grip is a real bonus when your adrenaline is pumping.

Having first raved about the Uzi I can say it is uncomfortable to carry all day. It has lots of sharp pointy things on it that you don't notice until you carry it a while. I think the MP-5 could possibly be a better weapon but I never got to use one to any great extent.