Thread: Best SMG?

Originally Posted by leibstandarte10

But is it as accurate as an MP5, which is accurate to double that distance with a short 8.75 inch barrel? I think not. I got a really, really good deal on a BW5, so that's my newest gun!

http://www.bobcatweapons.com/html_pages/bw5fspro.html

You can hit a running coyote at 200 yards with an MP-5???? I'm impressed.

With this thing I bet it's possible, especially with the 16.5" barrel. A helluva lot more likely than if I used a Thompson. Do that with a Thompson and I'd buy you a beer.

Originally Posted by Triple C

Anyone know anything about the Swedish K? I am very interested in that weapon's history and characteristics.

Ripped form :http://www.bellum.nu/armoury/CGm45.html

Operation :Straight blowback operation, actuation of bolt mechanism is by projection of spent case (the bolt is not locked at firing - it is held by the driving spring). - Full auto only.

Manufacturer: Carl Gustaf Stads Gevärsfaktori & FFV (Förenade Fabriks Verken)

Calibre: 9x19mm Parabellum (m/39 & m/39B) - The m/39B which have a thicker jacket cuases 25% more wear and tear to the barrel than it's predecessor. The m/39B cartridge can penetrate up to 50 layers of Kevlar/7cm bricks/20cm hard wood.

Capacity: 36 rounds (box magazine), 50 rounds (box magazine originaly intended for the the Swedish m/37-39 SMG. Fitted to the m/45 version only), 70 rounds (drum magazine originaly intended for the the Finnish Soumi SMG but it also fits the m/37-39 and is claimed to fit the m/45. 1-2 extra rounds can be forced down but this puts stress on the spring)

Dimensions: 811mm (extended), 552mm (folded), 361mm (line of sight)

Barrel: 213mm, 6 grooves - right hand twist

Weight: 3.9kg (with sling and without magazine), 4.6kg (with sling and 1x fully loaded 36 round box magazine), 0.7kg (1x 36 round box magazine fully loaded)

Sights: adjustable post (front sight), open adjustable U-noth at: 100m, 200m, 300m (rear sight)

Rate of Fire: 550-600rpm (the cyclic rate can be enhanced further by adding a large flashlight battery (or an extra recoil spring) between the recoil spring and the breech housing plate, this puts further tension to the spring).

Muzzle velocity: 420 m/s (m/39B Swedish ammunition)

Range: 10-100m (effective), 100-200m (maximum practical), 200-300m (possible but not recommended), 1500m (maximum)

Users: Australia (used by The SASR during the envolvment in Vietnam), Egypt (Licence: Port-Said), Estonia (donated/sold from Sweden), Indonesia, Iraq, Ireland, Israel (captured from Egyptian soldiers), Sweden, USA (US. Special Forces & US. Navy SEALs, CIA - "Air America" & Special Operation Group)

Construction: The receiver is made from steel tube, the separate barrel casing is also made from perforated steel tube. Handle grips are made of wood. The metall folding stock pivots to the right and the cheekguard is made of a plastic sheet that is molten into place.
The m/45B uses a special barrel and blank firing attachement for firing practice rounds. The blank firing barrel got a tapered bore, a muzzle thread and is painted in silver. The red plastic bullet is compressed on its way through the barrel and is finally pulverized by the blank firing device. To fire gallery ammunition one uses the blank firing barrel but not the blank firing device. The gallery cartridge got a black plastic bullet with a 3,7 mm steel ball inside. The plastic is shredded on the bullets way through the barrel but the steel ball continues for some 100 metres. Both blank and gallery ammunition cycles the action just like live ammo would do.

History: K-pist is short for "Kulsprutepistol" roughly translated as "Bullet spurting pistol". This SMG were developed by Swedish state-owned Carl Gustaf Arms company (located in Eskilstuna) in 1945 and were manufactured at a very low cost per weapon (60 SEK = $5, per gun) mostly due to modern factoring methods and by using stamped steel. The construction is based upon features taken from the Finnish "Tikkakoski "Suomi" m/31" (amongst other features - the barrel, the magazine cath and guide is taken from the "Kpist m/37-39"), the Brittish "STEN-gun" (amongst other features - the principle for the cocking mechanism) and the German "MP-40". It is still in service with some parts of the Swedish defence (as a secondary issue weapon, as a personal weapon for the crew abord the Navys ships and to some personnel within Hemvärnet ["Home Defence" = Swedish National Guard]). About 300 000 have been manufactured for the Swedish Defence (todays manufacturing cost ca: 700 SEK).
The B version was introduced in 1954. In 1955 the black oxide coating (Parkerized = manganese phosphate coated) was abounded and new weapons received a coat of green paint. When a weapon had lost more than 50% of the finish it was sent to an armoury to be repainted. After 1955 some guns were up graded to the B standard. This means that there are just a few m/45B in black matte finish, and even fewer green m/45. When the m/45 was introduced there was a shortage of the 36-round staggered-row magazine. To make the weapon compatible with the 50-round double-row magazine for the "Kpist m/37-39", the magazine well of the m/45 was detachable. To use the m/37-39 magazine one relesed the hope that held the magazine well and pulled out the magazine well it self. The 50-round magazine was then used whithout a magazine well. The disadvantage with the m/37-39 magazine was that it required a magazinefeeding device, if this device weren´t used the feeding from the magazine could cause a malfunction. As soon as the supply of 36-round magazines was sufficient, the magazine well of the m/45 was riveted to the receiver.

The first m/45B appeared with a new magazine housings with a U-shape wire retaining clip so that it could be removed and the old styrle magazines could be used if neccesary. Later the magazine housing was permanetly rivited in place, a reenforced breechhousing plate and a lighter recoil spring were added. The later two features were introduced to problems originating from using the "gallery ammunition" (also known as the "chamber practise round") - evidently the breechhouse plate could come loose at usage of this particular cartridge. The B-version have also holes of a smaller diamater in the barrel casing, and they are located closer to the muzzle. As a final touch the magazines were remodeled. The first type is recognised by that the bottom of the magazine is held in place by a plate spring.

M45/C is pretty much the same as the M45/B but has a bayonet lug on the barrel casing for the m/14 bayonet. The C-version was primaly used in parades, by Swedish UN-troops during the 1950-60s and by the Royal Castle Guards.

Copies of the "M45" were made under license in Egypt, known as "Port Said", and saw extensive use against the Israeli army during the conflicts between those two nations in the late sixties and early seventies. Hereby the Israeli nation also came by some of these weapons. During the 1960:s an unknown amounts of m/45B:s were sent off to Vietnam with the US. military, both in standard configuration and fitted with sound suppressing barrels. These weapons lacked id-number to avoid public opinion in Sweden (protests against Sweden as a deliverer of weaponry to conflict areas have always been a hardcore issue in Swedish politcs). The weapon proved itself and performed well in the jungle (the heavy 9mm bullet didn't diviate in the bullet trajectory as much as the lighter 5,56mm when flying through the thick vegetation. An interesting detail is that with the weapons came the same magazine pouch made of leather as the Swedish Army used. At some point, the Swedish government stopped exporting them for political reasons. As a result, and to fulfill a still evident need, Smith & Wesson developed their "model 76", which is loosely based on the m/45 (according to rumor the M76 can use the same magazine as the m/45). Later, the M76 were copied in it's turn by MK Arms of USA under the designation of "Mk760" (available in both 9x19mm Parabellum and .45 ACP). There is a similar weapon developed by Husqvarna in a competition against FFV, the "Kpist fm/44". It was later sold to Denmark who adopted it as the "Maskinpistol 9 mm - m/49", commonly known as the "Hovea" ("Hovea" is the Danish way of pronouncing "HVA" which means "Husqvarnas Vapenfabriks AB").

The suppresed versions were also by rumor used in Sweden by Kustjägarna (Coastal Rangers), the Attack Divers and most likely the Fallskärmsjägarna (Paratroopers) although this have been denied by the Swedish government at several occations since at that time it wouldn´t have been political correct for the swedish soldier to carry such a weapon.

The m/45 is a HIGHLY reliable weapon and will operate under extreme conditions such as arctic cold and desert heat. Much of it's reliability is due to the design of the magazines, and it's been reported to have kept firing thought it had dirt and mudd in the operating mechanism. (According to an oral legend amongst soldiers that have served in the Swedish Defence Forces, You can soak your m/45 in mudd - clean it by rincing it a pudle of water - then keep firing).

Markings: The m/45 is stamped with a crowned C and the serial number on top of the receiver. The m/45 B alteration is marked with an additional "B" beneath the serial number. The barrel casing is marked with a crowned C and the serial number. The barrel is stamped with the serial number, a crown, the initials of the inspection officer, an inspection letter and on most barrels a letter for an alternation. Further on, barrels of newer manufacture - intended for the m/45 carries a "m". All barrels got a classification digit in the bottom of the slot in the rim. This digit tells where this barrel will hit - according to this scheme:
1 2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9

This means that all barrels marked 3 will strike high and to the right. Used barrels are stamped with one, two or three small triangles depending on the amount of pitting corrosion in the bore.

The blank firing barrel is marked with manufacturer (HV for "Hanssons verkstäder" or a crowned C for "Carl Gustaf") and an optional denotation (H for tempered and HA for tempered and lose fit). Magazines are marked with manufacturer, alternation, last two digits in the year of production and lot number.

Thanks.

I have heard more than once that the P90 sucked. If one is engaging body armored targets at 200 meters, one gets an assualt rifle.

I handled a civilian model PS90 at a local gun shop a few days ago. I was surprised by how small the weapon is. I found it rather uncomfortable to scrunch down and aim the thing, and the grips were awkward. The ejection port is unprotected, and I imagine dirt and debris can enter easily and jam the weapon. The magazine, while holding 50 rounds, is complicated in design and from what I understand can spill all the rounds if handled incorrectly. The trigger pull was terrible. Except for the round it fires (who terminal ballistics must be unimpressive) I think it's inferior to the MP5 in design, based on what I've seen for myself and heard about both weapons.

Here's my new baby! What a great thing to come home to after being gone for so long!

Had a bit of extra time this morning so I decided to take the MP5 out to the range for a quick test. All in all I was very impressed. The weapon is surprisingly light, only 6.5 pounds unloaded. The sights are basically the same as the G3's, the only difference being to suit the 9x19mm's ballistics. The weapon is very quickly and naturally brought to the shoulder and the sights line up very easily. The grips are comfortable for a person with an average hand. The buttstock is also very comfortable and well designed. Cocking the weapon is a cinch, as is loading magazines. The finish is the same as that on my G3, which is a very tough and rust-resistant black epoxy coat. Accuracy was very good, easily able to put rounds into a 3 inch circle at 75 yards from a kneeling position. Recoil was nil and the report was easily bearable without ear protection. The trigger pull is very heavy, but that could be meant as a safety measure to protect against accidental discharge. I never had a misfeed or jam of any kind, despite the weapon being brand new and the use of several different types of magazines.

I'm definitely glad that I bought this weapon, as it's capable of good accuracy and economical shooting. It's bound to be a great plinker and varmint gun.