Nepal says Indian INSAS riffles let it down in rebel battle

**Samudra** · 24 Aug 05,, 14:16

What , I am a civilian puke , and still unable to decipher his err Inglish !

**lemontree** · 24 Aug 05,, 14:19

Originally Posted by Proud Indian

Yes thats true

On Indian Functions (HOLI and DIwali Baisakhi etc.) I njoy a lot
U know wearing kurta pyjamas (those decorated ones)

Does that mean patriotism?...IMO you should be patriotic to your adopted country.

And as for Miliatary stuff
1. many folks in my family are in Defecne (not sure bout the navy)

But then these guys are in India serving the nation, and are not NRIs.

and as for Indian - ness all songs iv got on my IPOD and Computer are Indian and pakistani (Only few by junoon strings etc)indian national anthem

I listen to rock. Does that make me less patriotic.

NOw id ask u guys how many of U indians in india have the indian national Anthem on ur comps.

Noe you will ask how many have the tricolour tatooed on their chests?

and Iv got more than 50.5 MB's of Indian Defence and propaganda posters
(everythin all ships tanks and missile and space etc)

So does Janes Defence weekly.

Iv even made some posters on india 1 i posted on multimedia
others are 2 big

So has my 5 yr old daughter.

Any ways iv heard that u were in Indian Army which battalion

Was - that info is for friends.

For now iv got my cousin in ARMy BSF(border Security Force ) His name is Major Ravi Thakur

Army and BSF are two separate organisations. Makeup your mind. Where does he serve?

I myself tryin to get dual citizen ship so that i can Join NDA and become a pilot in IAF, but if i cant become PILOt in IAF i will join ADFA(australian defence force acadmy). If i dont get in military i will become an architect(which i know none of u r intersted to know)

So you just want to fly jets - does'nt matter which airforce eh? Might as well apply for the new Iraqi airforce.

Jai Hind

**sniperdude411** · 24 Aug 05,, 17:39

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Well, PI,

Do us old soldiers a favour - use proper English spelling. I really hate young punks who are too lazy to do things right and have to make us work to understand your postings.

Oh, do I hate that also.

**Proud Indian** · 25 Aug 05,, 11:32

Originally Posted by lemontree

Does that mean patriotism?...IMO you should be patriotic to your adopted country.

But then these guys are in India serving the nation, and are not NRIs.

I listen to rock. Does that make me less patriotic.

Noe you will ask how many have the tricolour tatooed on their chests?

So does Janes Defence weekly.

So has my 5 yr old daughter.

Was - that info is for friends.

Army and BSF are two separate organisations. Makeup your mind. Where does he serve?

So you just want to fly jets - does'nt matter which airforce eh? Might as well apply for the new Iraqi airforce.

Jai Hind

Fine mate
u guy dont wana take as an indian
ur wish

Ill b one no matter wat u say (CUT the bullcr**, its my indian so called "sanskars" that are stoppin me from......, well u don' wana know.)

u dont sound so grown (like fathe of a 5 year old daughter ) will never say such things to a kid and try ta put him down

and 4 tattooooooo yeah iv got tatoo on my right biceps (INDIAn tricoloured )and on hte left iv got austrlian FLAg

My cousin is in Border Security Force

Jai Hind
Advance Australia Fair

**Proud Indian** · 25 Aug 05,, 11:37

"Was - that info is for friends."

Plz tell me if you can and think of me as fellow indian

or else keep puttin me down as uv been doin for quite some time

jai hind
advance australia fair

**Samudra** · 25 Aug 05,, 11:37

Oh , dont get so emotional P.I
LT did not question your nationality , I did.

Chill.
Have a Fosters

**Proud Indian** · 25 Aug 05,, 11:43

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Well, PI,

Do us old soldiers a favour - use proper English spelling. I really hate young punks who are too lazy to do things right and have to make us work to understand your postings.

Sorry my friend

I would be formal and decent with EnglisH

Sorry Again !

Jai hind
Advance Australia Fair

**lemontree** · 25 Aug 05,, 13:27

Originally Posted by Proud Indian

"Was - that info is for friends."

Plz tell me if you can and think of me as fellow indian

or else keep puttin me down as uv been doin for quite some time

jai hind
advance australia fair

I am not questioning anything. I was just playing with you because of the statement that "NRIs are more Indian...."

Chill out boy!

**Bill** · 26 Aug 05,, 01:55

"So a dragunov armed sniper would have a chance in close up furballing."

Sure. So would any sniper armed with any high capacity semi-automatic weapon.(a little known fact is that the M-21 is actually full auto capable if you have a selector key, lol).

"Now with reference with your quote above, the sniper team can do this when they have had the time to prepare. But not much chance in a counter ambush I suppose."

If you mean break an ambush by 'do this', well, you never have time to prepare for one of those.
If you mean find a good hide with good firing lanes, well yeah, obviously you need quite a bit of time to select and set up your firing position.

"I don't suppose in the US army snipers dont usually hangaround with foot patrols?"

Not if we can help it...

**~~Hari_Om~~** · 07 Sep 05,, 14:10

Perhaps the knowledgeable can make something out of the test results :

Army finds INSAS rifles ‘reliable’

Shiv Aroor

New Delhi, September 6

Intensive tests on INSAS rifle, the Indian Army’s mainstay, have confirmed its “robustness and reliability” even in “intense operational scenarios.”

The result of the tests, conducted at Mhow between August 18 and 20, would be communicated to Kathmandu, which had complained about the rifle’s “unreliability” and blamed it for the reverses it suffered against the Maoists.

The Army’s Infantry School in Mhow tested 44 INSAS rifles of the Platoon Weapons Division, simulating an “intense operational scenario.” The rifles were put through alternative tests of short-burst firing and single-shot firing.

The report of the tests says the rate of fire and performance during high cyclic load was “acceptable”. A total of 12,237 rounds were fired. The total number of “stoppages” — where rounds get jammed during continuous use — was under one per cent, a vindication of the Army’s stand, since the international norm for small arms is two per cent.

The report says out of 44 rifles, only 15 faced stoppages, and only three more than eight stoppages. Barring the three, the average stoppage was only 0.66 per cent, the report adds.

Apart from stoppages, the test team in Mhow, which included one JCO and four Havildar-rank instructors, encountered “no breakages or defects with the INSAS rifle”, as claimed by the Royal Nepalese Army (RNA). The RNA had complained that the INSAS it used broke down during fighting, which resulted in some of its men falling to the Maoists’ bullets. The rifles were operated for 30 minutes at a stretch, simulating the scenario in which the RNA operates.

Army Chief Gen J J Singh had last month backed the rifle at the Infantry Commanders’ Conference in Mhow.

URL: http://www.indianexpress.com/full_st...ntent_id=77704

**lemontree** · 08 Sep 05,, 13:22

Originally Posted by Hari_Om

Perhaps the knowledgeable can make something out of the test results :

As already discussed the weapon malfunctions in Nepal were a result of poor training and poor weapon discipline.

**aaaditya** · 09 Sep 05,, 04:09

Originally Posted by lemontree

As already discussed the weapon malfunctions in Nepal were a result of poor training and poor weapon discipline.

well guys forget about the insas and lets welcome the excalibur(and it is ambidextrous too)

New, improved rifles for the Indian Army

Developed by Pune’s ARDE, the upgraded INSAS is awaiting orders

Express News Service

Pune, September 7: THE much-needed under barrel grenade launcher upgrade to the INSAS (Indian Small Arms Systems) rifle is finally ready and city-based Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) says that they are awaiting Army orders. The good news is that the new launcher developed by ARDE is ‘flexible’ and can even be fitted to the AK-47s used by the armed forces.

The indigenous INSAS rifle, which was developed to equip the Army with cutting edge technology, was being held back as it did not have an under barrel grenade launcher and night fighting capabilities. In the absence of these, the Army was forced to order 3,400 Isreali made Tavor 21 rifles in October 2002

The Army is also eagerly waiting for the carbine variant of INSAS to be used by field commanders. ‘‘The carbine version is also ready and is undergoing user trails at the moment,’’ said AS Rajagopal, director, ARDE at a recent armament meet. While the carbine may take some time before it can be inducted into the Army, it will be among the most advanced in the world. ‘‘We are getting good feedback for our carbine. It is unique, as it is personalized for left handlers too,’’ adds Rajagopal.

Although the rifle is now upgraded, there were two other problems with it. The Army had complained that there was an oil leakage problem and the cartridge would crack in extreme temperature conditions. However, defense authorities say that both the problems have now been fixed.

http://cities.expressindia.com/fulls...?newsid=147534

**indianguy4u** · 09 Sep 05,, 04:25

Lets hear from resident experts of here too!!!

**lemontree** · 09 Sep 05,, 08:15

Developed by Pune’s ARDE, the upgraded INSAS is awaiting orders

Express News Service

Pune, September 7: ....The good news is that the new launcher developed by ARDE is ‘flexible’ and can even be fitted to the AK-47s used by the armed forces.

It is most probalbly copied from the Russian or Israeli design.

The indigenous INSAS rifle, which was developed to equip the Army with cutting edge technology, was being held back as it did not have an under barrel grenade launcher and night fighting capabilities. In the absence of these, the Army was forced to order 3,400 Isreali made Tavor 21 rifles in October 2002

Do our jouro even bother to find out facts?...The Tavor rifles are for the special forces ONLY, the 3400 rifles had gone to the SSF and the remaining ones with UBL when recieved from Israel will go only to the SF units.

The Army is also eagerly waiting for the carbine variant of INSAS to be used by field commanders.

...Thats a joke we have stopped waiting, since ARDE seems incapable of even coping technology that already exists in the market.

**cottage cheese** · 09 Sep 05,, 10:43

Originally Posted by aaaditya

well guys forget about the insas and lets welcome the excalibur(and it is ambidextrous too)

New, improved rifles for the Indian Army

Developed by Pune’s ARDE, the upgraded INSAS is awaiting orders

Express News Service

Pune, September 7: THE much-needed under barrel grenade launcher upgrade to the INSAS (Indian Small Arms Systems) rifle is finally ready and city-based Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) says that they are awaiting Army orders. The good news is that the new launcher developed by ARDE is ‘flexible’ and can even be fitted to the AK-47s used by the armed forces.

Wow ...what an achievement.... we can conquer the world now!

The indigenous INSAS rifle, which was developed to equip the Army with cutting edge technology, was being held back as it did not have an under barrel grenade launcher and night fighting capabilities. In the absence of these, the Army was forced to order 3,400 Isreali made Tavor 21 rifles in October 2002

Hahaha... ignorant correspondent and equally ignorant bureaucrat/technocrat... how difficult is it to achieve this?... there are countless unpatented designs in use around the world that can and will be able to be mounted on to the INSAS's structure. NO BIG DEAL. What does this master of the sword mean(referring to the ARDE bloke) by night fighting capabilities? then by his logic, no weapon in our inventory has can be used at night... Unless if the geezer meant the ability to fit night viewing devices(?) - Not enough reason/excuse for a hold back.

HAH! Cutting edge technologies! I just wanna fart. Firearms don't qualify as high technology. By nature they are low tech - other than material and maybe layout, firearms are still the ancient art of lock work and metallurgy.

Problem is coz the whole thing is a govt department. No need to go beyond that.

The Army is also eagerly waiting for the carbine variant of INSAS to be used by field commanders. ‘‘The carbine version is also ready and is undergoing user trails at the moment,’’ said AS Rajagopal, director, ARDE at a recent armament meet. While the carbine may take some time before it can be inducted into the Army, it will be among the most advanced in the world. ‘‘We are getting good feedback for our carbine. It is unique, as it is personalized for left handlers too,’’ adds Rajagopal.

The Carbine is a failure - The army seems to have lost all interest in it. If you've seen the Carbine you'll agree its a ridiculuous waste of time and resources. Most advanced in the world? Yahahahahahah! "Good feed back"? - Living in denial.

Although the rifle is now upgraded, there were two other problems with it. The Army had complained that there was an oil leakage problem and the cartridge would crack in extreme temperature conditions.

Oil leakage? Don't tell me the INSAS has an oil tank like those absurd WW2 Japanese and Italian machine guns?

However, defense authorities say that both the problems have now been fixed.

Bravo...bravo...Bravo!!

Some years ago weren't the ordnance/research folks proudly announcing and describing how they reverse engineered the AK round for domestic production? They were talking like no one else on earth could have done it. How hard would it be for India to get ammo specs from the Russians...Poles...Romanians, Czechs...Hungarians? This is so stupid... even a home reloader will probably be able to do this.

Why i'm being so negative about my country's Ordnance Setup is because its not doing things right...its not run right... i'm not pouring sh*t on my Country - I only expect better, because we can - we have the capability and capicity to do so.