Thread: Canada ends gun registry

Originally Posted by Chunder

C'mon mate, Even in places which don't share a land border (Australia) The place is still awash with illegal imports - and guns that were not even registered in the first instance.

I'm all in favour of your first para..

I have no problem with - Unless the registration scheme, (as someone who is pro gun) gets used at a later date, when my firearm becomes 'illegal' and a buy back is required'.

BUT - Plenty of people get arrested with the serial # Ground off...

I'm not being pedantic - Registration has it's uses, Only if the Government guarantees my right to own one as someone who has no convictions - which they won't. The failure to squash lobby groups publicly means I do not feel safe about my interests which are perfectly legal.

We aren't remotely awash with illegal guns compared to the US. To get an illegal gun you need to be connected to organised crime or be good at cracking gun safes (your own or somebody elses). I don't know about you but I'm neither of those things and don't thing that most people are. Compare that to the US where even in a regulated state like New York you just need to drive somewhere like Vermont and buy a gun in a sports store. Our generally nationally consistent rego laws help keep guns out of the hands of the minor hoods and the mentally unstable .... the people who put the public most at risk.

As for the rest of your post, no government can dictate the actions of those that follow them and it is not the place of any government to crush lobby groups, even if those groups are as dishonest and neurotic as gun control groups are.

The reality is that our continued right to own guns is determined by our democratically elected representatives and the best way to continue to enjoy of those rights is to promote responsible firearms ownership, and to make the arguement to advance gun owners rights though evidence and the democratic process. Talk by gun owners of not wanting registration so that they can unlawfully keep a gun that has been banned doesn't help us make the case. It just makes us look like we think we are above the law, which just going to make us look like a group of fringe looneys and crooks.

Originally Posted by Aussiegunner

Here licencing determines that you are a fit and proper person with a genuine reason to hold a gun, it does nothing to keep track of what guns you own. To buy a gun you need a permit to acquire, which serves the dual purpose of informing the relevant state government of what guns you own for registration purposes and determining whether you have a legitimate reason to own anything but a non self loading rimfire rifle, a shotgun other than a pump or a self loader, or an air rifle. Take away the register and anybody can buy a gun for an unlicenced person without any risk, they would just lie about the reason for purchase.

Here is the rub. If you that kind of person, you would not get a license in the first place.

Licencing only picks up criminals with a record and mentally ill people who have been diagnosed. There are plenty of both not known to the system. Think about this scenario, a guy comes into hospital with newly diagnosed schitzophrenia with paranoid delusions. The cops know he has a gun licence, go to his place and pick up some guns but have no idea how many guns he has. That makes it that much more risky to eventually release him when he is stable, because he may have lied about the number of guns he had, have hidden some and may relapse. If he has had to register his guns there is no ambiguity.

That's hogwash. Fine. The cops knows about the guns that are registered but that does not excuse the cops for not looking for guns that are not registered. If he is delusional, then you cannot trust him one single bit, not even his registrations.

Originally Posted by Aussiegunner

We aren't remotely awash with illegal guns compared to the US. To get an illegal gun you need to be connected to organised crime or be good at cracking gun safes (your own or somebody elses).

No you don't. Take a trip to Broken Hill.... You'll get approached. 4 weeks ago A guy came back saying no joke, he got approached to purchase a gun, behind the bloody cop shop!

Compare that to the US where even in a regulated state like New York you just need to drive somewhere like Vermont and buy a gun in a sports store. Our generally nationally consistent rego laws help keep guns out of the hands of the minor hoods and the mentally unstable .... the people who put the public most at risk.

Access to guns here is more difficult, Yes. Very hard to get? No.

As for the rest of your post, no government can dictate the actions of those that follow them and it is not the place of any government to crush lobby groups, even if those groups are as dishonest and neurotic as gun control groups are.

Well, I never heard anyone in public office publicly declaring firearms holders are entitled to their sport. I've heard plenty of the opposite crushing pro gun lobby groups.

The reality is that our continued right to own guns is determined by our democratically elected representatives and the best way to continue to enjoy of those rights is to promote responsible firearms ownership, and to make the arguement to advance gun owners rights though evidence and the democratic process. Talk by gun owners of not wanting registration so that they can unlawfully keep a gun that has been banned doesn't help us make the case. It just makes us look like we think we are above the law, which just going to make us look like a group of fringe looneys and crooks.

It's a bit hard when your a minority. Look at the Cattle Trade to Indonesia. Labor stopped it, they didn't give a shit, they weren't to loose any voters by doing it. Now they can't re-start it again... Your para is utopian in theory, however modern day politics is much more different, where Prime Ministers get toppled by opinion polls.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

That's hogwash. Fine. The cops knows about the guns that are registered but that does not excuse the cops for not looking for guns that are not registered. If he is delusional, then you cannot trust him one single bit, not even his registrations.

If guns have to be registered and assuming that illegal guns are not easily available, it is much easier for the police to confiscate all of his weapons compared to when there is no registration. One, under a registation regime he is unlikely to have unregistered guns and two, it is easier to find something that you know exists. Of course the police should search for anything else he has, but you said yourself that you have three guns 'at the bottom of the lake'. If you became mentally ill do you think the police would find them?

Originally Posted by Chunder

No you don't. Take a trip to Broken Hill.... You'll get approached. 4 weeks ago A guy came back saying no joke, he got approached to purchase a gun, behind the bloody cop shop!


Access to guns here is more difficult, Yes. Very hard to get? No.

Well, I never heard anyone in public office publicly declaring firearms holders are entitled to their sport. I've heard plenty of the opposite crushing pro gun lobby groups.


It's a bit hard when your a minority. Look at the Cattle Trade to Indonesia. Labor stopped it, they didn't give a shit, they weren't to loose any voters by doing it. Now they can't re-start it again... Your para is utopian in theory, however modern day politics is much more different, where Prime Ministers get toppled by opinion polls.

I tend to be a bit sceptical about stories from 'some bloke who went to Broken Hill'.

As for the rest, yes, getting oxygen as political minority is hard but plenty have done it with hard work and intelligent strategy. In New South Wales there are two Shooters Party members holding the balance of power in the upper house who have negotiated rights for shooters, such as the right to hunt on designated public land. It can happen but we need to act responsibily to make it so.

Originally Posted by Aussiegunner

If guns have to be registered and assuming that illegal guns are not easily available, it is much easier for the police to confiscate all of his weapons compared to when there is no registration. One, under a registation regime he is unlikely to have unregistered guns and two, it is easier to find something that you know exists. Of course the police should search for anything else he has, but you said yourself that you have three guns 'at the bottom of the lake'. If you became mentally ill do you think the police would find them?

They could find those 3 at the bottom of the lake and I will have 3 more by the end of the week. But you're missing the point. The registry does not preclude criminal or insane behavior. It really doesn't matter if you found all the guns listed in the registry or not or even found all the guns in the house on on the registry. The criminal and the insane will find ways that the registry cannot and will not prevent.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

They could find those 3 at the bottom of the lake and I will have 3 more by the end of the week. But you're missing the point. The registry does not preclude criminal or insane behavior. It really doesn't matter if you found all the guns listed in the registry or not or even found all the guns in the house on on the registry. The criminal and the insane will find ways that the registry cannot and will not prevent.

Some might manage access illegal guns but in general if you make it harder for people who shouldn't have them to get them, it is less likely to happen.

Originally Posted by Aussiegunner

Some might manage access illegal guns but in general if you make it harder for people who shouldn't have them to get them, it is less likely to happen.

Think I have posted it once, but here is the man with the plan again
Chris Rock on Gun Control - YouTube

Originally Posted by Aussiegunner

Some might manage access illegal guns but in general if you make it harder for people who shouldn't have them to get them, it is less likely to happen.

You're not getting the point. In the case of engineers, guns should be the last thing cops should worry about. I start in the kitchen first. Ok, here's the thing about the registry. Supposed they didn't find all the guns? What then? Supposed the delusional guy said he threw them in the river?

Originally Posted by Aussiegunner

I tend to be a bit sceptical about stories from 'some bloke who went to Broken Hill'.

Your entitled to be. But that is the black market for you.

The rest of yours 'We' as in plural is something that will never be achieved, statistical outliers always exist.

Assuming every single gun in the USA vanished magically overnight - say Scotty beamed them into a Klingon cargo ship - "Captain, there be AK's and Uzis!"...

And the border was 100% sealed... I could have a submachine gun in two days. I'd make it. There are millions of people with the technical skills and the tools to do it.

Like any other commodity, if the demand exists, a supply will be created, and if the supply is illegal, it'll simply go underground. Again, registration affects only law-abiding citizens.