Thread: Why use shotguns over other guns?

Ok, so I got curious about this claim that the Cheney shooting proved the ineffectivness of birdshot for self defence situations so I looked it up. These captions from a Wikipedia article summarises multiple sources on the incident and the second injuries sustained from the incident.

The events

Cheney had a televised interview[8] about the shooting on February 15. On February 22, the Sheriff's office released statements from Katherine Armstrong, Sarita Armstrong, Williford, Oscar Medellin, Gerado Medellin and Andrew Hubert. Cheney’s statement and all six of the other hunting party members' statements specify that:

Cheney, Whittington and Williford had first shot birds together in a covey
While Whittington was searching for a downed bird, Cheney, Williford and an 'Outrider' (Guide) walked towards another covey about 100 yards (100 m) away
Whittington approached to within 30 or 40 yards (40 m) of the shooters
A single bird flew up, around and behind Cheney in the direction of Whittington
Cheney shot at the bird and hit Whittington
The shooting occurred somewhere around 17:30 hours and 18:30 hours.

Armstrong, the ranch owner, claimed that all in the hunting party were wearing blaze-orange safety gear and none had been drinking,[9] and that at lunch they drank beer,[10] which contradicts her later statement that "there may (have been) a beer or two in there [the coolers at lunch], but remember not everyone in the party was shooting."[11] Cheney has acknowledged that he had one beer four or five hours prior to the shooting. Armstrong said she never saw Cheney or Wittington drink until later at the house, when Cheney had a cocktail.[12] Armstrong did not actually see the incident happen, believing that the reason Cheney's security detail was running was that Cheney had a heart problem,[11] although Cheney described her as an eyewitness in his Fox interview.[8]

Secret Service agents and medical aides, who were traveling with Cheney, came to Whittington's assistance and treated his birdshot wounds to his right cheek, neck, and chest. An ambulance standing nearby for the Vice President took Whittington to nearby Kingsville before he was flown by helicopter to Corpus Christi Memorial Hospital in Corpus Christi.

and,

Whittington injury

Whittington was injured in the face, neck, and upper torso. Whittington was reported to be in stable condition at Corpus Christi Memorial Hospital and had been moved from intensive care to a "step-down unit" on Monday. Doctors had decided to leave up to 200 pieces of birdshot pellets lodged in his body rather than try to remove them. Each pellet is less than a tenth of an inch (2.5 mm) in diameter. Because of their small size, it is hard to pinpoint the precise location of each pellet with medical imaging.

On February 14, 2006, at 0630 hours, Whittington suffered a minor heart attack and atrial fibrillation due to the shot pellets lodged in or near his heart.[3] Additionally he experienced a collapsed lung.[14] He was immediately moved back to the intensive care unit. At about 0900 hours, Whittingon underwent a cardiac catheterization test to detect blocked or leaky arteries. From the test, doctors found a single lead pellet.[15][16]

Hospital officials said Whittington was alert and stable[17] and that he did not experience chest pain or other symptoms of a heart attack.[15] Doctors reported signs of inflammation, and Whittington was treated with anti-inflammatory drugs.[18]

Whittington was subsequently discharged from the hospital on February 17, 2006. At a press conference, he said: "My family and I are deeply sorry for everything Vice President Cheney and his family have had to deal with. We hope that he will continue to come to Texas and seek the relaxation that he deserves."

Dick Cheney hunting incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is Whittington's account of the incident

"All I remember was the smell of burning powder," he says. "And then I passed out."

Since Dick Cheney shot him, Harry Whittington's aim has been to move on


So 2.5mm pellets (number 7 or 7.5 quail pellets - on the smaller end of the birdshot scale) fired from 30 to 40 yards were enough to collapse this guys lung, lodge one pellet near his heart and immediately render him unconcious. And FOG3 is seriously telling us that firing birdshot, especially the larger varieties, from a much closer range isn't going to penetrate deeply enough to incapacitate or even kill a protagonist? My suggestion is that you be serious mate and while you are at it, be careful about quoting incidents that you haven't properly researched.

Killer Butts

Myth: Three cigarettes shot from a rifle at 7 feet can be lethal

As the story goes, a couple of good 'ole boys decided to get drunk and mess around with guns. One of them put three cigarettes down the barrel of a muzzle-loading rifle and shot it at his buddy, killing him.

Adam brewed up a clear ballistics gel dummy (new mixture) with a pig heart embedded in the center. They didn't bother with a rib cage as they were going with the assumption that the butts were able to squeak through the gaps in the rib cage. They found an exact replica of the muzzle-loading rifle in the myth and went down to the South San Francisco Police Department firing range, where they met up with their old testing buddy Master Sgt. Alan Normandy.

For their first two tests, they used 80 grains of black powder and shot cigarette filters at seven feet. The first shot sprayed the dummy with filters, wadding, and black powder, but caused no real damage. The unburnt black powder lead them to believe that the rifle wasn't packed tight enough, so they tried again with more wadding. The next test didn't fare any better, with just more shotgun damage-less spray.

They reasoned that the cigarette filters they were using were incorrect. An actual smoked cigarette butt weighs three times as much as a cigarette filter and is closer to what would have probably been used. They repeated their tests, this time with 'pre-smoked' cigarette butts. At seven feet they had a little more damage than before, but just non-lethal flesh wounds. At point-blank range, the shot went straight into the pig heart. At that distance, the cigarette butts definitely could be lethal.

confirmed (from point-blank range, not 7 ft)

At 3 to 5 yards, the typical range involved, the "birdshot" is going to be a single mass with some outlyers, it will hit like shotgun slug, but transfer all its energy much quicker - in a shorter distance, leaving a terrible wound, it may not penetrate all the way through, but it will leave a grapefruit size hole with lots of trama. It will probably knock the target down. It would be lucky to survive such a wound.