Young mum shoots intruder dead

**astralis** · 05 Jan 12,, 15:01

i'm a bit confused as to her weapons choice though-- she picked up both a 12-gauge shotgun AND a pistol, and she ended up deciding to shoot the baddie with a pistol? i woulda gone shotgun.

**USSWisconsin** · 05 Jan 12,, 15:10

Depends on the handgun, I'd choose a S&W .40 over a 12 guage if there were no one down range - more rounds and hydroshock... But if it were a .38 or .22 - then the 12 guage would be preferable - stopping the intrunder in his tracks would be the primary goal. Depends on how good I was with the pistol too - if I wasn;t a good shot, then the shotgun is best.

**mustavaris** · 05 Jan 12,, 20:19

TBH: More I read these stories, more I hate the European self-defence/fire arms regulation and laws.

Despite of the law, I will do exactly what I see fit if I ever have to defend my home, no matter whether it is legal or illegal, I will choose the best option I can think of.

**mustavaris** · 05 Jan 12,, 20:36

Yes. Definately. We have a lot of weapons (40% of the households are armed), but self defence with a firearm is a big no no. We have had fierce debates and most of the people agree that we would need more rights to protect ourselves but so far it has not materialized in anything concrete. The anti-gun lobby is too strong. We routinely jail people who have used lethal force when defending themselves.

A real story from Finland.

Wife sees that some guys have broken into family´s carage/storage house. They live in countryside and no neighbours are close. She sees that one of them is possibly armed and alarms her husband. They then call police and are told that a patrol shall be sent.. The intruders are in no hurry, go throught the garage and after some time they start to approach the house. They are told by the emergency service that it will take some time before they can actually send anyone and the family is told to be cooperative with the intruders. That racks the nerves of the husband who grabs the phone and tells the emergency service that they must know (they got access to registry) that he is well armed. He has an assault rifle at home. He tells that once he ends the call, he will get his rifle and shoot the intruders. He stops the call without listening to the person at the other end of the line.

Not too long afterwards multiple armed police patrols arrive and when they come into house, they find that the family is in the cellar and the husband is guarding them. That guy got prosecuted for that (not sure what was the outcome though). He did not shoot anyone or anything. The intruders escaped. This happened to a friend of my acquitance.

Originally Posted by Chogy

Mustavaris, would she really be prosecuted? Wouldn't public outrage over her sentencing be deafening? I thought Finland had liberal weapons laws.

**dave lukins** · 05 Jan 12,, 21:19

Originally Posted by mustavaris

Yes. Definately. We have a lot of weapons (40% of the households are armed), but self defence with a firearm is a big no no. We have had fierce debates and most of the people agree that we would need more rights to protect ourselves but so far it has not materialized in anything concrete. The anti-gun lobby is too strong. We routinely jail people who have used lethal force when defending themselves.

A real story from Finland.

Wife sees that someone guys have broken into family´s carage/storage house. They live in countryside and no neighbours are close. She sees that one of them is possibly armed and alarms her husband. They then call police and are told that a patrol shall be sent.. The intruders are in no hurry, go throught the garage and after some time they start to approach the house. They are told by the emergency service that it will take some time before they can actually send anyone and the family is told to be cooperative with the intruders. That racks the nerves of the husband who grabs the phone and tells the emergency service that they must know (they got access to registry) that he is well armed. He has an assault rifle at home. He tells that once he ends the call, he will get his rifle and shoot the intruders. He stops the call without listening to the person at the other end of the line.

Not too long afterwards multiple armed police patrols arrive and when they come into house, they find that the family is in the cellar and the husband is guarding them. That guy got prosecuted for that (not sure what was the outcome though). He did not shoot anyone or anything. The intruders escaped. This happened to a friend of my acquitance.

You have a legal right to protect yourself and if that means using lethal force then so be it and be damned be the Courts who send someone to jail for doing so.

PS. The husband could have fired into the air as they live in the Countryside and that would have scared off the intruders.

**Mihais** · 05 Jan 12,, 21:49

I found out a nice acronym:SSS.Shoot,shovel,shut up.Works best in countryside.

**YellowFever** · 05 Jan 12,, 21:57

Originally Posted by mustavaris

TBH: More I read these stories, more I hate the European self-defence/fire arms regulation and laws.

Despite of the law, I will do exactly what I see fit if I ever have to defend my home, no matter whether it is legal or illegal, I will choose the best option I can think of.

We have a saying in the states.

"It's better to be judged by 12 than to be carried out by 6."

**USSWisconsin** · 06 Jan 12,, 00:52

Originally Posted by mustavaris

Yes. Definately. We have a lot of weapons (40% of the households are armed), but self defence with a firearm is a big no no. We have had fierce debates and most of the people agree that we would need more rights to protect ourselves but so far it has not materialized in anything concrete. The anti-gun lobby is too strong. We routinely jail people who have used lethal force when defending themselves.

A real story from Finland.

Wife sees that someone guys have broken into family´s carage/storage house. They live in countryside and no neighbours are close. She sees that one of them is possibly armed and alarms her husband. They then call police and are told that a patrol shall be sent.. The intruders are in no hurry, go throught the garage and after some time they start to approach the house. They are told by the emergency service that it will take some time before they can actually send anyone and the family is told to be cooperative with the intruders. That racks the nerves of the husband who grabs the phone and tells the emergency service that they must know (they got access to registry) that he is well armed. He has an assault rifle at home. He tells that once he ends the call, he will get his rifle and shoot the intruders. He stops the call without listening to the person at the other end of the line.

Not too long afterwards multiple armed police patrols arrive and when they come into house, they find that the family is in the cellar and the husband is guarding them. That guy got prosecuted for that (not sure what was the outcome though). He did not shoot anyone or anything. The intruders escaped. This happened to a friend of my acquitance.

He could shoot them in the hips and shoulders when they came into his home - then cauterize their wounds with hot coals from his stove - so they wouldn't die - less than lethal...

He also shouldn't mention his intentions to the authorities.

**mustavaris** · 06 Jan 12,, 07:33

I believe that he would have shot warning shot(s) had the intruders broken into their home.

Originally Posted by dave lukins

You have a legal right to protect yourself and if that means using lethal force then so be it and be damned be the Courts who send someone to jail for doing so.

PS. The husband could have fired into the air as they live in the Countryside and that would have scared off the intruders.

**Doktor** · 06 Jan 12,, 08:22

Originally Posted by mustavaris

Yes. Definately. We have a lot of weapons (40% of the households are armed), but self defence with a firearm is a big no no. We have had fierce debates and most of the people agree that we would need more rights to protect ourselves but so far it has not materialized in anything concrete. The anti-gun lobby is too strong. We routinely jail people who have used lethal force when defending themselves.

A real story from Finland.

Wife sees that some guys have broken into family´s carage/storage house. They live in countryside and no neighbours are close. She sees that one of them is possibly armed and alarms her husband. They then call police and are told that a patrol shall be sent.. The intruders are in no hurry, go throught the garage and after some time they start to approach the house. They are told by the emergency service that it will take some time before they can actually send anyone and the family is told to be cooperative with the intruders. That racks the nerves of the husband who grabs the phone and tells the emergency service that they must know (they got access to registry) that he is well armed. He has an assault rifle at home. He tells that once he ends the call, he will get his rifle and shoot the intruders. He stops the call without listening to the person at the other end of the line.

Not too long afterwards multiple armed police patrols arrive and when they come into house, they find that the family is in the cellar and the husband is guarding them. That guy got prosecuted for that (not sure what was the outcome though). He did not shoot anyone or anything. The intruders escaped. This happened to a friend of my acquitance.

Americans fare better.

Allegedly true story from Mississippi:

George Phillips of Meridian, Mississippi ...was going up to bed when his wife told him that he'd left the light on in the garden shed, which she could see from the bedroom window. George opened the back door to go turn off the light but saw that there were people in the shed stealing things.

He phoned the police, who asked "Is someone in the house?" and he said "No".

Then they said that all patrols were busy, and that he should simply lock his door and an officer would be along when available. George said, "Okay," hung up, waited thought a minute, he phoned the police again.

"Hello, I just called you a few seconds ago because there were people in my shed. Well, you don't have to worry about them now cause I've just shot them all." Then he hung up.

Within five minutes three police cars, an Armed Response unit, and an ambulance showed up at the Phillips residence. Of course, the burglars were then caught red-handed.

One of the Policemen said to George: "I thought you had phoned to say these guys had been shot!?"

George replied, "I thought you guys had said there was nobody available!?"

**bigross86** · 06 Jan 12,, 08:29

Urban Myth. Names and places change, but the story stays the same. Some versions claim this was published in a newspaper, others don't.

Besides, the police would probably slap George with a filing false charges complaint

**mustavaris** · 06 Jan 12,, 10:26

Ah, I have heard this story here too, in a Finnish setting, but the story I told is something I am almost 100% sure about because I know the names and the place-

Originally Posted by Doktor

Americans fare better.

Allegedly true story from Mississippi:

George Phillips of Meridian, Mississippi ...was going up to bed when his wife told him that he'd left the light on in the garden shed, which she could see from the bedroom window. George opened the back door to go turn off the light but saw that there were people in the shed stealing things.

He phoned the police, who asked "Is someone in the house?" and he said "No".

Then they said that all patrols were busy, and that he should simply lock his door and an officer would be along when available. George said, "Okay," hung up, waited thought a minute, he phoned the police again.

"Hello, I just called you a few seconds ago because there were people in my shed. Well, you don't have to worry about them now cause I've just shot them all." Then he hung up.

Within five minutes three police cars, an Armed Response unit, and an ambulance showed up at the Phillips residence. Of course, the burglars were then caught red-handed.

One of the Policemen said to George: "I thought you had phoned to say these guys had been shot!?"

George replied, "I thought you guys had said there was nobody available!?"

**dave lukins** · 06 Jan 12,, 10:56

Originally Posted by mustavaris

I believe that he would have shot warning shot(s) had the intruders broken into their home.

As Long John Silver (Treasure Island) would have said: "fire two warning shots....right through his head"

**tankie** · 06 Jan 12,, 11:23

Just watched this on BBC , another mindless oxygen thief is heading for 3 square meals and all found free every day , heartbreaking to watch the young murdered man's family at the murder scene

Student's family visit murder scene - Yahoo!

**2DREZQ** · 23 Feb 12,, 14:22

I posted this on my blog last April:

I just returned from spending four days in the Nevada desert at one of the premier shooting schools in the country. I learned a lot.

Not, mind you, that I wasn't very good with small arms already, but the quality of instruction raised my skill set more than a few notches.

I also confronted a few of my own doubts head-on.

I've never had to shoot at lifelike targets before, and I found it more difficult than I would have imagined. It has caused a reset of my moral compass that, I'm not ashamed to admit, was overdue.

One of the things we learned was to visualize the actual situation in practice sessions. I did that, and got a surprise: When the target was a woman, and not a ratty looking guy, I hesitated. I could see the gun. I knew mentally that she represented a real threat. I couldn't shoot without giving her a chance that I didn't give any of the others. (Holster to double-tap to the chest well under one second at my best.)

Why?

I vizualized a real living, breathing person, heart and lungs and brain. I've spent my entire adult life saving people's lives, not taking them. Their worthiness to live was not a part of the equation. I just did what they needed to help, and sometimes to ease the suffering when help was beyond mortal reach.

Then, I looked a photographic target in the eyes and saw a living person that I was about to put two 115 grain hollow-point nine-millimeter bullets through.

Could I do it? Just hitting a paper photo had my pulse up and my hand shaking (yes, my aim was off, but not enough to avoid fatal hits). Could I really assume the responsibility for ending a human life violently in under one second, one tick of the fastest hand on the clock?

I lay awake that night for a very long time and wondered about it. I've carried a gun for most of twenty years, practiced until I could beat almost anyone, even from behind the power curve. But I never let myself think about who I might have to beat some day.

I reached a decision. With more certainty in my conclusion-that coming from having tested myself unflinchingly-that yes; I could kill, and I will kill if I have to to save my own life, or the life of another innocent person. Anyone who presents an immediate threat to my life has, by default, forfeited his right to live. My life is a good one. I do good things. I contribute to society, and the world is better with me in it than not. He who would end my life prematurely is a bad person. If he would kill me, he would kill you, and the world is better off without him if it is a either him or me. I may (God forbid.) be the instrument of that man's death, but the choice to die will have been his, not mine.

I understand more about gunfighting now than I ever did, and I'm better now than I ever was.

I have stood up to the toughest opponent a man can face short of a real gunfight: myself.