Marine Corps will keep and improve M16A4 & M4 carbine

**cadpipe** · 24 Nov 11,, 16:14

I would think belt feed would be a priority, with this one the enemy would just follow the trail of empty mags. C mags would help, and it comes with a pouch for carry, then there is the double wide 60 round banana mag, but then you have to replace all the vests and pouches to accept the wider mags. In short, I like the shrike, wish they would abolish the GCA 1968 so I could own one.

**Triple C** · 24 Nov 11,, 22:04

Have they fixed C-Mag's reliability issues? The last time they limited-issued it to the Rangers it did not get rave reviews.

**cadpipe** · 24 Nov 11,, 22:08

Originally Posted by Triple C

Have they fixed C-Mag's reliability issues? The last time they limited-issued it to the Rangers it did not get rave reviews.

Defense Review - DR Exclusive!: SureFire “Quad-Stack” AR Rifle Magazines: SureFire 60-Shot and 100-Shot AR (AR-15/M16) 5.56mm NATO Box Magazines for Significantly-Increased Firepower during Infantry Combat and Tactical Engagements of All

Not sure if they fixed C-mag issues, they are making them for a lot more firearms though.

**Chogy** · 24 Nov 11,, 22:09

Originally Posted by cadpipe

I would think belt feed would be a priority, with this one the enemy would just follow the trail of empty mags. C mags would help, and it comes with a pouch for carry, then there is the double wide 60 round banana mag, but then you have to replace all the vests and pouches to accept the wider mags. In short, I like the shrike, wish they would abolish the GCA 1968 so I could own one.

Cadpipe, are you in a non-NFA (Machine gun) State?

Technically, the Shrike is classified as an UPPER, meaning you could mail order one tomorrow... if you can find one for sale. They're out there, but about $5K each due to demand. The Shrike isn't even classed as a firearm. Of course, its functionality (semi or full auto) is based upon whatever lower it is mounted on.

**cadpipe** · 24 Nov 11,, 22:50

Originally Posted by Chogy

Cadpipe, are you in a non-NFA (Machine gun) State?

Technically, the Shrike is classified as an UPPER, meaning you could mail order one tomorrow... if you can find one for sale. They're out there, but about $5K each due to demand. The Shrike isn't even classed as a firearm. Of course, its functionality (semi or full auto) is based upon whatever lower it is mounted on.

But I want the SBR version, Requires NFA. I am in an NFA state.

Unlike poor Gunnut stuck in the Socialist Republic of Kalifornia.

**Chogy** · 25 Nov 11,, 13:56

Originally Posted by cadpipe

Unlike poor Gunnut stuck in the Socialist Republic of Kalifornia.

Heh - I've heard of wealthy Kommiefornia gun people buy a house in Nevada just to keep a cool gun stash there.

**Monash** · 26 Nov 11,, 10:21

What about the LSAT program? Does anyone have an update on how the development programs for the LMG and it's rifle derivative are going?

**Red Team** · 27 Nov 11,, 00:59

http://www.aaicorp.com/pdfs/lsatps09-09-08.pdf

I found a little PDF of info on one of the prototypes. As far as I can tell the LSAT and related programs are going at a relatively sluggish pace due to ongoing budget cuts, etc. I don't expect a very active competition for a new rifle and LMG until much later or even the next decade. Crossing my fingers for a decent caseless design...

**Monash** · 27 Nov 11,, 06:08

Originally Posted by Red Team

http://www.aaicorp.com/pdfs/lsatps09-09-08.pdf

I found a little PDF of info on one of the prototypes. As far as I can tell the LSAT and related programs are going at a relatively sluggish pace due to ongoing budget cuts, etc. I don't expect a very active competition for a new rifle and LMG until much later or even the next decade. Crossing my fingers for a decent caseless design...

Thanks Red Team, I think I may have seen that PDF before but it does give you good shots of the prototypes. Last I heard the developers were talking about a few of the LMG varients to Afganistan for "field" testing" but I don't know if it ever happened.

Maybe the developers are "guilding the lilly" a little with regards to the systems level of readiness (in the time honoured fashion of Defence Contractors everywhere

) but it does seem like the the LMG at least could be close to having a shot at being adopted the DoD.

**Chogy** · 27 Nov 11,, 14:20

I forgot that decades ago, Colt offered their LMG variant for their M-16. The LMG included a heavy-barreled upper, and replacement fire-control components that changed the system from closed to open bolt.

LMG uppers are prized collector's items these days, and are still available. But the fundamental problems still remained - magazine fed, and fixed barrel. No barrel swapping when it gets too hot. IIRC the LMG upper came about at a time when the U.S. Army and Marines were getting away from the full-auto switch and going back to a more disciplined semi-auto fire, with all of this culminating in the use of the BURST switch replacing the AUTO switch on the weapon.

Colt LMG:

**gunnut** · 01 Dec 11,, 00:37

Originally Posted by Chogy

Heh - I've heard of wealthy Kommiefornia gun people buy a house in Nevada just to keep a cool gun stash there.

I would do that if I had the spare cash.

Maybe I could get together with a few friends and buy a small house in Vegas just for this. Houses are dirt cheap in Vegas right now. $50k can get you enough for short visits. The annoying thing is the property tax, utility bills, and other misc. maintenance.

**cadpipe** · 01 Dec 11,, 01:19

Originally Posted by gunnut

I would do that if I had the spare cash.

Maybe I could get together with a few friends and buy a small house in Vegas just for this. Houses are dirt cheap in Vegas right now. $50k can get you enough for short visits. The annoying thing is the property tax, utility bills, and other misc. maintenance.

You would want your Drivers Lic to be AZ as well, or you would still only be able to buy the emasculated guns.

**Stitch** · 01 Dec 11,, 01:39

Originally Posted by Chogy

I forgot that decades ago, Colt offered their LMG variant for their M-16. The LMG included a heavy-barreled upper, and replacement fire-control components that changed the system from closed to open bolt.

LMG uppers are prized collector's items these days, and are still available. But the fundamental problems still remained - magazine fed, and fixed barrel. No barrel swapping when it gets too hot. IIRC the LMG upper came about at a time when the U.S. Army and Marines were getting away from the full-auto switch and going back to a more disciplined semi-auto fire, with all of this culminating in the use of the BURST switch replacing the AUTO switch on the weapon.

Colt LMG:

That looks A LOT like a Stoner 63 LMG; did it use similar parts?

**Chogy** · 01 Dec 11,, 14:33

Unfortunately no, Stitch, the Colt LMG is still 95% AR in origin. The Stoner 63 was/is very different. The Navy SEALs in SEA loved the Stoner for its firepower, but they had the discipline to maintain the weapon very well. Original transferable Stoners are one of the pinnacles of civilian NFA ownership in the States, and a nice example can fetch $75,000. Eugene Stoner isn't quite Browning, but he's close, IMO. It was Stoner that started (or at least accelerated) the revolution in non-traditional materials for military weapons.

Steel & wood --> aluminum & polymers

You're not using that to claim the AR is some kind of unreliable abomination are you?

I agree with you there FOG3, gas piston for the AR is a solution in search of a problem. Piston conversion owners are finding the piston tilts the AR bolt carrier sharply and accelerates wear in the upper.

The tragedy with that whole govt contract stuff is, I think an M-4 costs the govt about 15,000 or so(anyone feel free to correct me here). I could go to a gun show, find the exact same parts and build one for less than $2000

I thought Uncle Sam was buying M-4's for something like $1,700 according to the "Department of Defense Budget. Fiscal Year 2011. February 2010. Office of the Under Secretary of Defense (Comptroller)" according to Wikipedia.

**surfgun** · 02 Dec 11,, 23:46

Well the Russians are reportedly taking a hard look at chambering their new AK rifles in the 6.5 Grendel round (I hope they do not). The ballistic coefficient and long range accuracy of the 6.5 Grendel round are superior to the 5.56 NATO round.