Good first gun?

**dave lukins** · 09 Nov 11,, 00:09

Originally Posted by Red Team

I'm also contemplating going through a basic firearms control class which also offer lessons in center axis relock...would it be practical or helpful learning this style?

If you think it would be advantageous to you then a skill learned is another string to your bow.

**Blue** · 09 Nov 11,, 04:03

Originally Posted by cadpipe

This is just a guess: while you are trying to assess the distance and figure out which stance to use, 7th sniper could put 6 holes in you.

KISS-Keep It Simple S........

Since I have no idea what "center axis relock" is, though I think it a fancy name for something we have been doing for years, I am not against a reputable firearms class. He can learn safety there, after that, he can learn how to shoot.

I think that shooting can be taught, but being a shooter is gift, or else we would all be Bob Mundens and Jerry Miculeks.

At this point, what I think Red should do, is skip it all, and come spend a couple days with me on my range. He can shoot about everything he can imagine, under responsible tutilage and then take it from there.

**Stitch** · 09 Nov 11,, 04:14

Originally Posted by 7thsfsniper

Since I have no idea what "center axis relock" is, though I think it a fancy name for something we have been doing for years, I am not against a reputable firearms class. He can learn safety there, after that, he can learn how to shoot.

I think that shooting can be taught, but being a shooter is gift, or else we would all be Bob Mundens and Jerry Miculeks.

At this point, what I think Red should do, is skip it all, and come spend a couple days with me on my range. He can shoot about everything he can imagine, under responsible tutilage and then take it from there.

Um, where exactly do you live? I'd like to drop by and try out an M-1911A1, and maybe an AR, or an SR-25, if you've got one . . . . .

**Blue** · 09 Nov 11,, 04:59

Originally Posted by Stitch

Um, where exactly do you live? I'd like to drop by and try out an M-1911A1, and maybe an AR, or an SR-25, if you've got one . . . . .

Sold my "SR-25"(actually the better Panther LR-308) so that's not an option these days, but there is two ARs(right and left handed), a few 1911s, an M1A NM and some other stuff. If you come out in August. there is OFASTS close by(oklahoma full auto shoot). Ask Gunnut, he came out last year. Where you can shoot literally anything FA.

I am in SW MO (Joplin) and my range is close by on private property. There is no one else I have to put up with and I have about 350 yds available, with 180 degree shooting scenarios available.

I have had a standing invitation to any wabbers to come and go shooting whenever I can accomodate, which is often.

**Stitch** · 09 Nov 11,, 05:23

Originally Posted by 7thsfsniper

Sold my "SR-25"(actually the better Panther LR-308) so that's not an option these days.

Not impressed with Knights Armament, are we? I don't know them that well, so I can't speak for them, but I will take that into consideration, if and when I'm looking into a 7.62 rifle. Also, thanks for the invite, though I suspect it will be a while before I get back East again.

**Blue** · 09 Nov 11,, 05:30

Oh yeah, the Panther LR-308 is the most accurate out of the box rifle I have ever seen. I fire-lapped mine and it was sub-moa @ 250 yds. Not really sure why I sold it in retrospect.

**Red Team** · 09 Nov 11,, 16:44

Originally Posted by 7thsfsniper

Since I have no idea what "center axis relock" is, though I think it a fancy name for something we have been doing for years, I am not against a reputable firearms class. He can learn safety there, after that, he can learn how to shoot.

I think that shooting can be taught, but being a shooter is gift, or else we would all be Bob Mundens and Jerry Miculeks.

At this point, what I think Red should do, is skip it all, and come spend a couple days with me on my range. He can shoot about everything he can imagine, under responsible tutilage and then take it from there.

That's very decent of you sir, I may just take you up on that sometime!

As to center axis Relock, it's a fairly new shooting stance catered to pistols but possible with carbines and shotguns. It's supposed to enhance recoil management and provide better control in tight spaces, so it's more of a practical home defense skill than anything. From what I've heard, classes are fairly limited around so I'm considering doing it as a supplement to my fundamentals.

**Mihais** · 09 Nov 11,, 18:06

One learns new things on WAB frequently.Like the Sarge said,what's the news?
Also,a friendly piece of advice.If you're going into a fight,don't do that.A few reasons.One,if it's really close you don't have time to get into the stance.You'll get stabbed,beaten etc... .So you need to point shoot,while having the other hand ready to defend yourself(or why not,hit the other guy to disturb him,while you grab the gun to put a few rounds in his belly).two,if the distance is bigger than 5m AND you have the time to get the gun,aim properly,while taking cover.That weirdo thing also reduces your situational awareness,at least on the left side(if you shoot right handed).
Third-one that can't control the recoil of a pistol,should forget about guns and go to the gym.

Sarge,what's wrong with SR25?

**Red Team** · 09 Nov 11,, 19:20

From what Ive heard about CAR from friends taking the class was that with proper drilling, your muscle memory would actually allow you to draw much faster (no arm extension) than with the same applications to the weaver stance. I could also see how it would let you sustain fire with a fully automatic machine pistol without spraying all over the place...

I believe the CAR instructors said it wasn't an exclusive technique, it was meant to have ample room and even encouraged to be used in conjunction with the weaver. But in the end I don't really know if it's at all practical for my personal needs so I'm still contemplating.

My only real concern would be learning to fire from the "high" position...talk about don't try this at home

**Mihais** · 09 Nov 11,, 19:47

Rule 1 in a fight is win it.Nobody gives a sh!t about tactics,weapons etc...,but everyone cares to live another day. Do whatever it takes to win.Any skill,any technique and any gun is good to know intimately.That way,you'll apply them to their full potential,when is needed and where is needed.

Rigidity,particulary in thinking isn't good.Thus I don't know why one would put too much value on a certain technique or train too much on it.For a start,stance means 0 in a fight.Hitting the bastard and avoiding being hit are priority no. 1.Stance leads to trading bullets,which is a losing solution.Avoiding being hit means movement,either towards cover or simply vertical or lateral movement if cover is inexistent or too far away.
Once you move,you better have a stable upper body.

Primitive,but effective.All the rest,naming,instructor ego,schools of thought conflict is crap.JMHO

**Red Team** · 09 Nov 11,, 20:28

I see so you're the "end justifies the means" kinda guy? I suppose predictability was the bane of many historical blunders...

**bigross86** · 09 Nov 11,, 20:34

The corollary to the first rule in a fight is that there are no rules. Everything is fair, from eye-gouging and nut-kicking to bringing a gun to a knife/fist fight. Marquess of Queensberry rules are great for boxing, useless everywhere else

**Red Team** · 09 Nov 11,, 21:21

"The corollary to the first rule in a fight is that there are no rules."

This reminded me of Fight Club.

**Doktor** · 09 Nov 11,, 21:25

**Blue** · 09 Nov 11,, 21:28

Originally Posted by Red Team

That's very decent of you sir, I may just take you up on that sometime!

Anytime.

As to center axis Relock, it's a fairly new shooting stance catered to pistols but possible with carbines and shotguns.

If that is what MIhais posted in that video, that is what we have been calling for a very long time "shooting from the hip" or "instinctive shooting". I think someone just made up a fancy name so they could sell something.