SA-80 rifle

**troung** · 01 May 05,, 21:28

at the Time the First Browning Automatic Rifles were in issue but the big wigs were afraid that the BAR would be cloned by the germans.

No stories like that are to cover the out and out failure of the US Army to supply automatic weapons to its own soldiers. The BAR actually did see action during the war with American troops.

**Beaugeste93** · 01 May 05,, 23:52

Originally Posted by troung

Makes me wonder if UK troops would not be better off with something like this as a squad level DM...

Sweet FAL. I'd take that over an SA80, AK or an AR any day. Heavier but who cares?

I'm reading Murphys book on the Khe Sanh hill fights in '67 right now. The marines had just been issued the m16 and the survivors seem to be averaging about 3-5 rounds between malfunctions. I'll take a heavy but reliable m14 over a plastic and aluminum club anyday. I'd imagine the brits feel the same now.

**sniperdude411** · 02 May 05,, 03:47

The problem of the m16 malfunctioning was the use of more powerful, but dirty burning, stick powder and the lack of chrome plating on the bolt, etc.

**Beaugeste93** · 02 May 05,, 04:54

Originally Posted by sniperdude411

The problem of the m16 malfunctioning was the use of more powerful, but dirty burning, stick powder and the lack of chrome plating on the bolt, etc.

True. I'm just saying i'll take a heavy rifle that works over a light one that doesn't.

**Bill** · 02 May 05,, 08:02

The original M-16 had problems that went far beyond the propellant that was used in the ammunition.

Lack of a forward assist, lack of proper cleaning materials and manuals, and telling the troops it was 'self cleaning' were more the problem than ammo or chromium lined bores were.

**Bill** · 02 May 05,, 08:04

The Americans showed up in France with brand spanking new Lewis guns....and the Frogs reissued Chaucats to our doughboys after they got there.

**troung** · 02 May 05,, 20:51

The Americans showed up in France with brand spanking new Lewis guns....and the Frogs reissued Chaucats to our doughboys after they got there.

The ordinance board actually hated Isaac Lewis which is why the Lewis gun was not standard issue. The Marines and a few Army units had a bunch but the rank and file units did not have light machine guns until issued Chaucats. The Army ordinance board had more or less chased the Lewis gun away before and kept doing the same in the run up to the war and during the war.

The Marine Lewis machine guns were actually taken by the Army who then reissued then Chaucats.

So it was not the French's fault we had the Chaucat but in fact the Army's.

**sniperdude411** · 02 May 05,, 21:18

Stupid army.
The world would be a much better place if people ignored politics in non-politic issues.

**jdbuk** · 31 Jul 05,, 02:55

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/SA80.htm
http://www.navynews.co.uk/articles/2...1002111301.asp
info on the sa-80 a-2 you obviously didnt know.

**cottage cheese** · 02 Aug 05,, 16:13

Originally Posted by sniperdude411

What's the FAMAS like? It uses a lever-delayed blowback, and I want to know how it works (drawings would help).

Simple physics and application of the principle of levers(fulcrum etc.)

The best way to understand this is by way of a simple experiment.
Have a flat surface, a foot long scale - wooden(it shouldn't bend) a stationary object to act as a fulcrum/wedge and something heavy like a block of wood or a brick.

The red arrows are the desired direction of movement. Now if you push against the scale at around point A - you'll find that the brick, though heavy, will move with relative ease. This is what we don't want to happen. Now try the same thing at point B or as close to the fulcrum(wall corner or nail) as possible. You'll find that getting the scale to move the brick is now much more difficult. You'll have to apply much more force to get it brick moving. This is the same principle that the lever delay action works in. Remember that at no point of time is the bolt/breech positively locked (like in the rotary bolt system) - The mechanical disadvantage produced by the lever/fulcrum arrangement forces the recoiling cartridge to expend a lot of extra energy in overcoming the negative leverage. Add to that the resistance provided by the recoil spring and the hammer spring, you have a lot of inertia that the bolt head has to overcome to move back. Thus the delay.

This system, however, in my humble opinion just about works and results in very violent extraction because the bolt is never positively locked and is actually moving all through the blow back stage. This would normally lead to ruptured cartridges and allied problems. To counter this, they cut fine parallel flutes along the chamber to allow the cartridge case to "float" in a cushion of gases from the ammo detonation.

Hope this helps.

**Simullacrum** · 08 Sep 05,, 15:08

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

It's an HK. Do you really even need to ask.

It's got all the great attributes of the SLR, but in a bit more compact of a package(which gives it a bit better balance for off-hand firing). I'd happily carry either a G3 or a SLR into battle. The SLR has a better bayonet though.

Add in the M-14 series, and you have what are to me the three best battle rifles of the 20th century.

Depends on what role you play in the armed forces, different guns for different jobs/situations..........

Having used G3 for over 2 years.....i would say it is very reliable hardware. It is easy to take apart and put together. Triger mechanisms...is a one piece sealed unit...no need for much maintenece. standard gun oil for the barrel, all is much neded.
Workhorse of a gun.....Particularly like it cause of the bigger calibre round 7.62.
has a slightly heavier kick to it then the smaller 5.56 rifles. Large somewhat heavy stock does a good job compensating...Good asualt weapon for outdoor usage.

The one drawback I find and hate about it......its is one of the most heaviest assault weapons going. And if u aint used to it can be a burdon on the field, as i have witnessed lesser able troops getting arm aches...!! lol

Good weapon typical of H&K...!!!

**sniperdude411** · 10 Sep 05,, 19:21

Wow Cottage Cheese, you are amazing.

A question: What would be better, a slower-firing but more controllable sustained fire, or a faster-firing, but less controllable fire?
It seems that through the design of my gun in a thread here, it would have a slower-firing, but more controllable sustained fire. Like maybe 600 rpm full-auto.
It certainly would help in ammo consumption.

**cottage cheese** · 12 Sep 05,, 05:15

Originally Posted by sniperdude411

Wow Cottage Cheese, you are amazing.

A question: What would be better, a slower-firing but more controllable sustained fire, or a faster-firing, but less controllable fire?
It seems that through the design of my gun in a thread here, it would have a slower-firing, but more controllable sustained fire. Like maybe 600 rpm full-auto.
It certainly would help in ammo consumption.

Really can't put in a solid opinion there - I have never used arms in anger... only against paper targets.... and compound it with the fact that I'm a hopless shot, my opinions are merely opinions and largely theoretical.

I'm inclined to think 600-700RPM is a good balance. But not with very powerful ammo.
Look at the HK G11 - 3rnd Burst is 2000RPM while full auto chugs away at about 450 RPM - That is thought to be the optimal controllable rate of fire- You can comfortably snatch off single shots at this speed as well.