Which M4 Replacement would you pick?

**gunnut** · 23 Nov 09, 20:42

Originally Posted by roffelskates

Why not just go ahead and chamber the Chauchat in 7.62? Then soldiers will truly know what an unreliable gun is

"You think an M16 Jams a lot? Look at this French POS!"

Hey don't make fun of the Chauchat. As a club, it's 100% reliable.

**Imho** · 23 Nov 09, 21:19

Originally Posted by roffelskates

I'd like to stick with 5.56 loadings simply because that simplifies things a lot, and the only changing variable would be the rifle itself in that case. To be honest the 6.5 and 6.8 platforms are simply piston driven AR's in a different loading. To be honest too, all these rifles can be easily switched out for an AR compatable bullet like the 6.5 and 6.8 with a few modifications. Some more so than others like the XM8. To your other post I do not think the 416 is the best for the money, I think it's a horrible value because were sorta just stuck with a freefloated railed AR with a piston system. And from a consumer standpoint, HK is selling them for about 5 grand for just the upper. JUST THE UPPER! I mean you can buy more than 2 SR-556's with the same piston technology and it will probebly preform 90% as well at half the price.

I can't believe,5 grand...this is ridiculous.You are right that for this money you can buy something better.Why not Ruger SR556 its very nice.Im not gonna lie you Bud,I don't like 5.56.Im not professional soldier,but have read and herd enough about it :-).All Nato countries should go(over time) to 6.5Grendel or something that line.Right now our AK(Bulgarian) have been produced in 5.56x45,soldiers don't like it.We stopped producing AK in 5.45. My point is 5.56 from 16 inch AK barrel is not to effective.And with shorter barrel :(.The last thing I herd from MoD is even though we are in Nato our main caliber remain 7.62x39

.
If US don't change the caliber,no one will.My brother for example on this subject is-our(NATO) assault rifles should be in 7.62x51 and hand gun in .45

,he was in the army for year and a half(machine gunner).
Sorry for talking off topic,could hold my self

**Imho** · 23 Nov 09, 21:25

Originally Posted by gunnut

How about MP44 chambered in 7.92x33mm?

Hey gunnut,what do you think about this for room cleaning

http://www.arsenal-bg.com/images/def....62ar-m4sf.jpg

**gunnut** · 23 Nov 09, 22:33

Originally Posted by Imho

Hey gunnut,what do you think about this for room cleaning

http://www.arsenal-bg.com/images/def....62ar-m4sf.jpg

I've never been a fan of a Krink (Krinkov, a uniquely American name for the short barrel AK 74). I'd imagine the recoil on it would be rather severe and the flash would destroy your night vision or night vision equipment.

For strictly room clearing purposes, I prefer an auto shotgun.

)

**leib10** · 23 Nov 09, 22:47

Originally Posted by roffelskates

I'd like to stick with 5.56 loadings simply because that simplifies things a lot, and the only changing variable would be the rifle itself in that case. To be honest the 6.5 and 6.8 platforms are simply piston driven AR's in a different loading. To be honest too, all these rifles can be easily switched out for an AR compatable bullet like the 6.5 and 6.8 with a few modifications. Some more so than others like the XM8. To your other post I do not think the 416 is the best for the money, I think it's a horrible value because were sorta just stuck with a freefloated railed AR with a piston system. And from a consumer standpoint, HK is selling them for about 5 grand for just the upper. JUST THE UPPER! I mean you can buy more than 2 SR-556's with the same piston technology and it will probebly preform 90% as well at half the price.

5 grand on the civilian market, no way HK is selling them at that price to the military for just the upper.

**roffelskates** · 23 Nov 09, 22:57

Originally Posted by leib10

5 grand on the civilian market, no way HK is selling them at that price to the military for just the upper.

That's what I'm thinking too, but sometimes I hear companies putting even higher premiums on millitary because they are a larger order and only a few guns meet the required specifications, also that they CAN. You also have to admit that HK doesn't exactly have a reputation for value when it comes to their weapons.

I'm not totally sure why HK is selling it for 5 grand on civies, but the cost for the military if there is some sort of discount cannot be more than 50% of what their selling to us. Either way it seems almost offensive to think that their stuff is worth as much as some Class 3 full auto guns.

**Imho** · 23 Nov 09, 23:23

Originally Posted by gunnut

I've never been a fan of a Krink (Krinkov, a uniquely American name for the short barrel AK 74). I'd imagine the recoil on it would be rather severe and the flash would destroy your night vision or night vision equipment.

For strictly room clearing purposes, I prefer an auto shotgun.

)

The one on the picture is in 7.62x39,Am I going to be correct if I say its not Krinkov,because its not 5.45x39You can see the "banana" magazine.Flash suppressor could be mount.My point was-it small and easy to handle and has the punch of 7.62x39.The shot gun have bigger flash :-).

Back on topic is the Barrett REC7 a possible replacement of the current M4
Candidacy as M4 replacement

The REC7 outfitted in a shortened barrel PDW configuration was one of the weapons displayed to U.S. Army officials during an invitation-only Industry Day on November 13, 2008. The goal of the Industry Day was to review current carbine technology prior to writing formal requirements for a future replacement for the M4 carbine.[1][2]
[edit]
Barrett REC7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Its not a great source,but for making the point should be enough

)

**gunnut** · 23 Nov 09, 23:28

Originally Posted by Imho

The one on the picture is in 7.62x39,Am I going to be correct if I say its not Krinkov,because its not 5.45x39You can see the "banana" magazine.Flash suppressor could be mount.My point was-it small and easy to handle and has the punch of 7.62x39.The shot gun have bigger flash :-).

That's a good question. I'm not sure if a 7.62x39 short barrel AK would be called a Krinkov.

Regardless, it would still generate a hell of a bang and flash.

**leib10** · 23 Nov 09, 23:34

Originally Posted by roffelskates

That's what I'm thinking too, but sometimes I hear companies putting even higher premiums on millitary because they are a larger order and only a few guns meet the required specifications, also that they CAN. You also have to admit that HK doesn't exactly have a reputation for value when it comes to their weapons.

I'm not totally sure why HK is selling it for 5 grand on civies, but the cost for the military if there is some sort of discount cannot be more than 50% of what their selling to us. Either way it seems almost offensive to think that their stuff is worth as much as some Class 3 full auto guns.

True, HK tends to be overpriced. The reason the uppers are so expensive on the civilian market is because there were very few of them imported before a ban was imposed, the resulting rarity really driving up the prices. The MR223 (the semi-auto only version of the HK416, made by HK) is speculated to cost around $1500 to $2000 for the whole rifle, if and when it gets released.

**Imho** · 23 Nov 09, 23:39

Originally Posted by gunnut

That's a good question. I'm not sure if a 7.62x39 short barrel AK would be called a Krinkov.

Regardless, it would still generate a hell of a bang and flash.

What do you think about the Barrett Rec7,gas piston,6.8 etc?

**Imho** · 23 Nov 09, 23:44

Originally Posted by leib10

True, HK tends to be overpriced. The reason the uppers are so expensive on the civilian market is because there were very few of them imported before a ban was imposed, the resulting rarity really driving up the prices. The MR223 (the semi-auto only version of the HK416, made by HK) is speculated to cost around $1500 to $2000 for the whole rifle, if and when it gets released.

Is this price correct $800-$1400?Or its joke?
GunJunkie.net - H&K-416

**Imho** · 23 Nov 09, 23:50

Originally Posted by Stitch

It's got my vote. Plus, it's probably a lot cheaper than the current M4.

Im not sure that will be cheap,but its 12lbs. the M14 is 11.5lbs thats a lot of weight for AR

**gunnut** · 23 Nov 09, 23:50

Originally Posted by Imho

What do you think about the Barrett Rec7,gas piston,6.8 etc?

I think it's a fine rifle. I've never shot one but Barrett has a good reputation.

That being said, it's too much money to switch from 5.56mm to 6.8mm. Not only do we have to buy new guns, we need new mags, new cleaning kit, new parts supplies, and new ammo production. Guess what? We have to replace the M249 SAW as well.

What does switching to 6.8mm really give us? Can we completely replace 5.56mm and 7.62mm with the 6.8mm? I don't think so.

Right now, we have the 5.56mm for close range work and if we need bigger bang, we use 7.62mm rifles and machine guns. It is more than likely that if we switch to 6.8mm we will still keep 7.62mm in the inventory for longer range work. So all that resources put into changing calibers will produce very little gain.

Maybe we should gradually replace the gas impingement M4 to a piston driven design. This will have to be determined by the bean counters and the army brass.

**Imho** · 23 Nov 09, 23:54

Originally Posted by gunnut

I think it's a fine rifle. I've never shot one but Barrett has a good reputation.

That being said, it's too much money to switch from 5.56mm to 6.8mm. Not only do we have to buy new guns, we need new mags, new cleaning kit, new parts supplies, and new ammo production. Guess what? We have to replace the M249 SAW as well.

What does switching to 6.8mm really give us? Can we completely replace 5.56mm and 7.62mm with the 6.8mm? I don't think so.

Right now, we have the 5.56mm for close range work and if we need bigger bang, we use 7.62mm rifles and machine guns. It is more than likely that if we switch to 6.8mm we will still keep 7.62mm in the inventory for longer range work. So all that resources put into changing calibers will produce very little gain.

Maybe we should gradually replace the gas impingement M4 to a piston driven design. This will have to be determined by the bean counters and the army brass.

When you put it that way,it obvious,I agree.May be the best replacement for M4 will be Barrett REC7 in 5.56 if its cheaper then the Colt M4.This way US keeps the caliber,pays less(thats if is cheap) and gets gas piston AR.

**JA Boomer** · 24 Nov 09, 04:07

Forgive my ignorance, but I don't have any experience with assault rifles. When comparing rifles such as the M16A4, M4, Bushmaster ACR, Barrett REC7, FN SCAR, and H&K HK416; do these rifles all have similar firing rates in full-auto mode? I don't expect them to be the same, but are they within say, 100 round per minute of each other?

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