sniperdude411

20 or 30 rd. magazines is what he doens't want. The clip-loading backup is quite useless - If you're out of ammo, then your buddy with the rifle is probably almost out too. He's not gonna give-up his ammo so you can just spit it out.

troung

Actually it is quite usefull. Minimi gunners in Afghanistan during OEF would often carry 2 30 round magazines as a back up for the belted ammo. Minimi gunners in Indonesia during the Aceh operation often had 30 round magazines loaded in their Minimis.

It provides one a fall back provided the gun has no (cough cough) issues with using magazine after magazine...

Shek

Troung, thanks for bringing up the lack of clarity in my statement. I wouldn't want such a small capacity in the primary means of loading the weapon. Having it as a backup only makes sense since you can get resupply through the soldiers around you that have loaded magazines.

sniperdude411

And if they're all out of ammo...

I say just bring a sh***tload of ammo when you go to a firefight.

troung

I was off in my post post Army Rangers during OEF would carry as many as 4 30 round magazines as a backup for the belted ammo they carried in their vests along with around 600-800 rounds of belted ammo ready to use. And if everyone in the section is out of ammo then something is going very wrong.

No problem. The magazines for these weapons as nice backups to use in case one runs out of drums/belts. I know most forgein gunners carry 30 round magazines as a backup and I know a lot of American gunners do the same.

Plus it is great to hear an American talk about these weapons as the only first hand I get is from Indonesians, Flippinos and Singaporeans.

Yeah the Ultimax-100 can also go "para" and use a shorter barrel.

Shek

Interesting - I never had guys carrying mags in either my platoon or company. SAW gunners already have a heavier load than rifleman. The other issue that comes with the SAW is good fire control by the team leader and squad leader, achieved by issuing fire commands. SAW gunners tend to blow their wad during training.

troung

That is neat. I remember looking at Ranger gear in OEF and some gunners had two 200 round belts, two 100 round belts and four 30 round magazines along with a loaded M-249 (so another 200). Maybe that's because they conducted different operations then your company would as in more behind the lines and so forth (damn Styrker egomanics ). How many rounds (and in what way) would M-249 gunners in your unit carry on operations?

Ultimax-100 gunners in Singapore also carry 4 or so backup 30 round magazines along with five or so 100 round drums. Often in training they use the 30 round magazine for practice shooting.

Indonesian Minimi gunners would have four belts with another often in the gun (for 5) and often some back up magazines. They have used the Minimi since the mid 1980s. And pretty much the same with Indonesian Ultimax-100 gunners.

French Para-Minimi gunners would have a spare magazine or so on operations as well.

I have heard a lot of complaints about the Minimi's ability to use the 30 round magazines and that it sometimes leads to jams.

Shek

800 rounds was the ammunition basic load for the SAW, plus we had lots of backup on the Strykers. However, when I was an airborne PL, the SAW gunners still carried only 800 rounds. But, we never deployed to a real world op, and that could have changed attitudes.

Most stories you read about jumps and initial combat experiences is that guys tend to take too much and get bogged down. It's always nice to have "insurance rounds" and pack for that rainy day, but too much of a good thing is bad.

Anon

How do you get to 800rds when the basic mag sizes are 250(plastic) and 300(cloth)? Or is the cloth 200rds? I never used the cloth mags, we didn't have them, so forgive me if i'm mistaken as to it's capacity.

Anyway, our SAW gunners carried 3x 250rd mags.

troung

Generally the plastic box was issued with 200 rounds. So three of those and two 100 round cloth drums get one 800. One of the 200 round boxes would be hooked onto the gun, and two 200s and two 100s would be in the vest.

The Rangers that jumped into Kandahar during OEF had 120 extra rounds (total of 920) in four 30 round magazines.

You sure they had 250 rounds?

Terran empire

hmmm based on Snipers figures
250 + 250 + 250= 750 add in 2 full M16 mags 810 rounds
or
250 + 250 + 300 = 800 Rounds.

Hay I did that with out taking off my Socks!!
oh wait I am wearing Sandals

__________________
"Finger never touches Trigger unless some one is going too need a grave digger" (Me)[

sniperdude411

In America's Army, the standard plastic belt-feed magazines are 200 rds. Nutsacks ae 100 rds.

Anon

Hmmm, maybe the plastics were 200, been a long time. I was never a SAW gunner, though i did hump an M-60 on a few field problems early in my gruntin' days. Those had 100rd cloth mags that didn't work all that well.

sniperdude411

The M-60 uses completely different ammo boxes. M-240's way better. And more fun to shoot than the m-249 I'm sure.

Shek

The M60 and M240B use the exact same ammo. I'd agree with you that the M240B is a superior weapon, although they have completely different roles, and yes, they are much more fun to shoot, but not to carry. Nothing beats dialing in your T&E onto the target and watching the rounds impact.