DC's gun laws

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-19-2008, 02:43 AM

I always find fascinating the issue's in the US regarding the right to Bear Arms, and the passion it invokes across the US.
What are your views on the current issue before the Supreme court?
And, given the the modern day and age we live in is an amendment added in 1791, which was a very viable amendment then, truly viable now?

BBC NEWS | Americas | Q&A: DC's gun laws

tankie · 03-19-2008, 11:27 AM

It will end up like the U/K where only the scumbag criminals and the police have weapons , the ordinary person who,s life is being threatened does not have the right to self defence in the same degree as the offender is offering .

dalem · 03-19-2008, 14:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

I always find fascinating the issue's in the US regarding the right to Bear Arms, and the passion it invokes across the US.

I agree, always a fun and educational topic.

Quote:

What are your views on the current issue before the Supreme court?

I think the D.C. gun ban is unConstitutional and should be struck down.

Quote:

And, given the the modern day and age we live in is an amendment added in 1791, which was a very viable amendment then, truly viable now?

No more or less so than the 1st Amendment. For instance.

-dale

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-19-2008, 14:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalem

No more or less so than the 1st Amendment. For instance.

-dale

you see this is what I love about this whole debate, how can protecting the freedom of speech and the right to bear arms be classed as the same thing?...or are you saying its all "freedom of expression"?

Herodotus · 03-19-2008, 18:21 PM

I live in DC; I've seen muggings right in front of me (well across the street), I caught someone trying to break into my building (though he ran away and didn't shoot me), and the local crime blotters are filled with street crimes of people being robbed at gunpoint up and down my local area...and I live in a good part of town.

The gun ban doesn't work, it does nothing to stop street crime, only making private citizens powerless. I would like to see a repeal of the gun ban and hopefully a right for citizens to carry concealed weapons (though I doubt this latter will happen). At the very least with a repeal it will give many citizens a sense of protection to have a handgun nearby.

ofelas · 03-19-2008, 19:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

you see this is what I love about this whole debate, how can protecting the freedom of speech and the right to bear arms be classed as the same thing?...or are you saying its all "freedom of expression"?

To a large degree, the Second Amendment ensures that we have a First Amendment.

dalem · 03-19-2008, 19:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

you see this is what I love about this whole debate, how can protecting the freedom of speech and the right to bear arms be classed as the same thing?...or are you saying its all "freedom of expression"?

I didn't say they were the same thing. I equated their level of relevence. They are both primary amendments to the founding document of our government and nation. They both are part of the section of the Constitution (i.e. the Bill of Rights) that guarantees protections OF the people FROM the government. And they are the first two of such.

In other words, they specify what the government CANNOT DO.

In light of that, to this layman, there is simply no question to be asked in this case. The D.C. law is unreasonable regulation that crosses the line into infringement of a basic American right. It should be struck. The states and local governments still have recourse to reasonable regulation.

-dale

dalem · 03-24-2008, 18:20 PM

Good article about the state of the case: Linkydink.

Quote:

Fans of gun rights and scholarly defenders of the U.S. Constitution alike were left pleased and optimistic by what they heard U.S. Supreme Court justices say March 18 during oral arguments for a case challenging Washington, D.C.'s, sweeping, super-strict gun law. The plaintiff in District of Columbia v. Heller argues that D.C.'s ban -- which essentially makes it illegal for private citizens to own handguns at all or possess rifles that are assembled or unlocked and ready to use -- violates the Second Amendment.

I like Levy's attitude - cautiously optimistic and not overreaching.

-dale

Stan187 · 03-24-2008, 18:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herodotus

I live in DC; I've seen muggings right in front of me (well across the street), I caught someone trying to break into my building (though he ran away and didn't shoot me), and the local crime blotters are filled with street crimes of people being robbed at gunpoint up and down my local area...and I live in a good part of town.

The gun ban doesn't work, it does nothing to stop street crime, only making private citizens powerless. I would like to see a repeal of the gun ban and hopefully a right for citizens to carry concealed weapons (though I doubt this latter will happen). At the very least with a repeal it will give many citizens a sense of protection to have a handgun nearby.

I think it'd be pretty nonsensical to repeal the gun ban but not allow concealed carry. Not to mention that if people are getting mugged outside of their home, "nearby" is probably just not close enough to be of any help.

dalem · 03-24-2008, 22:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan187

I think it'd be pretty nonsensical to repeal the gun ban but not allow concealed carry. Not to mention that if people are getting mugged outside of their home, "nearby" is probably just not close enough to be of any help.

The irrational fear of guns held by those who oppose them would make it almost impossible to go from "no guns at all" to "shall issue carry" in very quickly, I should think.

-dale

GraniteForge · 03-25-2008, 19:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

I always find fascinating the issue's in the US regarding the right to Bear Arms, and the passion it invokes across the US.
What are your views on the current issue before the Supreme court?
And, given the the modern day and age we live in is an amendment added in 1791, which was a very viable amendment then, truly viable now?

BBC NEWS | Americas | Q&A: DC's gun laws

I don't particularly like some parts of the Constitution, and I would have opposed its adoption in the present form had I had been around all those years ago. But, agree or disagree, it is the supreme law of the land, and I believe it my duty to fully support each and every part.

So, yes, an amendment added in 1791 is just as viable today as then. And honestly, its a lot more important today than it was then, given that the threats we face as citizens are so much greater now.

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-25-2008, 19:51 PM

Hi

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraniteForge

I don't particularly like some parts of the Constitution, and I would have opposed its adoption in the present form had I had been around all those years ago. But, agree or disagree, it is the supreme law of the land, and

Quote:

I believe it my duty to fully support each and every part.

And I fully respect your stance on that GF

So, yes, an amendment added in 1791 is just as viable today as then. And honestly, its a lot more important today than it was then, given that the threats we face as citizens are so much greater now.

Will get back to you later with a response

Stan187 · 03-25-2008, 22:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalem

The irrational fear of guns held by those who oppose them would make it almost impossible to go from "no guns at all" to "shall issue carry" in very quickly, I should think.

-dale

That may very well be true, but that does not make it make sense any more than before, and I think you'll agree with me on that. If the big problem in DC is people being mugged, while their homes will be nice and cozy and protected, without carry permits the result will be one of two:
1. People still getting mugged outside just as much
2. People breaking the law and carrying their legally acquired firearms on their person

T_igger_cs_30 · 03-26-2008, 07:36 AM

I fully agree GF, that citizens nowadays face more threats than ever from the criminal element.
My main concern is not with people carrying guns, but with people who carry them being fully trained and rationale.
Those that break the law will always be there, so that is a mute point.

Lets say you get the law approved to carry your guns, and a bad guy now uses an illegal gun in a hold up, the victim pulls his legal gun, a shot is fired, now 5,6,7,,8 or more people in the vicinity pull there legal guns to protect themselves, a policeman or two show up, how do they identify the bad guy in the heat of the firefight that surely will be going on.
And what will be the public reaction when a Police officer makes a bad decision and shoots the wrong man?

tankie · 03-26-2008, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_igger_cs_30

And what will be the public reaction when a Police officer makes a bad decision and shoots the wrong man?

Well over here Wayne what happens is ,, an innocent Brazillian was shot severalteen times in the head , an enquiry took place , no police officer was charged and the chief of the met , BLAIR (another one ) keeps his job and on the news 2 days ago his oppo was sprouting that London was safe in his hands , yea right thanks

03-19-2008, 02:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
T_igger_cs_30 *Military Professional* Join Date: 01-04-07 Location: Canada Posts: 1,943 Country:	DC's gun laws I always find fascinating the issue's in the US regarding the right to Bear Arms, and the passion it invokes across the US. What are your views on the current issue before the Supreme court? And, given the the modern day and age we live in is an amendment added in 1791, which was a very viable amendment then, truly viable now? BBC NEWS \| Americas \| Q&A: DC's gun laws __________________ $<img src=http://C:\Documents and Settings\Wayne Smith\My Documents\002...My Pictures border=0 alt= />$ FEAR NAUGHT I don't work here ...I am an analyst!

03-19-2008, 11:27 AM	#2 (permalink)
tankie tankie *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-22-06 Location: u/k Posts: 1,762 Country:	It will end up like the U/K where only the scumbag criminals and the police have weapons , the ordinary person who,s life is being threatened does not have the right to self defence in the same degree as the offender is offering . __________________ TANKIE , WITHOUT WAX

03-26-2008, 07:36 AM	#14 (permalink)
T_igger_cs_30 *Military Professional* Join Date: 01-04-07 Location: Canada Posts: 1,943 Country:	GraniteForge I fully agree GF, that citizens nowadays face more threats than ever from the criminal element. My main concern is not with people carrying guns, but with people who carry them being fully trained and rationale. Those that break the law will always be there, so that is a mute point. Lets say you get the law approved to carry your guns, and a bad guy now uses an illegal gun in a hold up, the victim pulls his legal gun, a shot is fired, now 5,6,7,,8 or more people in the vicinity pull there legal guns to protect themselves, a policeman or two show up, how do they identify the bad guy in the heat of the firefight that surely will be going on. And what will be the public reaction when a Police officer makes a bad decision and shoots the wrong man?

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03-19-2008, 18:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
Herodotus Patron Join Date: 04-05-07 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 153 Country:	I live in DC; I've seen muggings right in front of me (well across the street), I caught someone trying to break into my building (though he ran away and didn't shoot me), and the local crime blotters are filled with street crimes of people being robbed at gunpoint up and down my local area...and I live in a good part of town. The gun ban doesn't work, it does nothing to stop street crime, only making private citizens powerless. I would like to see a repeal of the gun ban and hopefully a right for citizens to carry concealed weapons (though I doubt this latter will happen). At the very least with a repeal it will give many citizens a sense of protection to have a handgun nearby.

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