jame$thegreat

Which has better close range (for use in a semi-auto pistol) capibilities? Any body have any specs?

I was thinking about it the other day: most of you on this board swear by the .45 and down-talk the 5.56 but which would be better in a real life situation? I would hink that it would be indeed the 5.56; it is simply a bigger slug and more powder but would it be practicle? I can't think of any full-size/semi-compact semi-auto that fires 5.56, the closest to that would include the .50AE, .454 Casull and the .500 S&W, but no 5.56.

Discuss...

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Rakkasan

No offense intended, but you clearly lack any basic understanding of cartridges or ballistics.

The two rounds have essentially nothing in common, and are about as opposite on the centerfire cartridge spectrum as you can get. I have never really heard any serious comparison of the two rounds, as they have totally different intents behind their designs and intended application.

The .45 ACP (11.4x23mm) is a large-caliber, low-velocity, low pressure pistol cartridge that fires a (comparitively) large heavy projectile. It was designed specifically for a semi-automatic pistol, to be used in close-range self-defence applications.
Some cartridge information:

The .45 ACP is considered as one of the very best, if not the best self-defense handgun cartridge ever designed. A huge number of different pistol designs have been chambered for it, from virtually every weapons manufacturer in the world. It offers moderate penetration, and tremendous terminal effects on the target within it's performane envelope.


The .223 Remington (5.56x45mm) is a small-caliber, high-velocity, high pressure rifle cartridge that fires a (comparitively) small light projectile. It was adapted from a medium-range varmint/benchrest round, for use in military assault rifle applications.
Some cartridge info:

The .223 Remington is not available in any semi-automatic pistol, other than various specialized "cut-down rifle" so called 'pistols', typically of AR-15 basis. These loose a great deal of performance relative to the rifle velocities and energy. They do retain tremendous penetration and pose a significant danger of passing through a target. They make poor self-defensive weapons both from the aspects of employment and terminal effect.


Ballistics Tables for comparisons:

The "normal" comparisons are usually the 9mm Parabellum against the .45 ACP in pistols, and the .223 Remington against the 7.62mm (Soviet or NATO, depending) in rifles.

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leib10

This thread reeks of failure.

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omon

he probably ment some other round than 45acp, i think he knows perfectly well what rifle round is, and what pistol round is. imo. i hope you made a mistake

there is 1 pistol that shoots 5,45+39.spp1 it's underwater 4 barrel pistol, it has a spare block of 4 barrels 5,45+39,ment for shooting above water, normaly it shoots underwater round.4.5+39

bonehead

I would rate the .45 third. Closely behind the .357mag and the .40. The 5.56 as a pistol round would be nothing more than a curiosity.

leib10

IMO the .45 is better as a self-defense round than a combat pistol round as it lacks the penetration abilities that other rounds offer.

jame$thegreat

I was just curious if there was a way in which it could be used as pistol round, maybe an extended barrel or something. Close thread?

RustyBattleship

About the closest you can get to a 5.56mm PISTOL round is the .22 Winchester Rim Fire Magnum. That can be pretty mean.

But I assumed the originator of this thread was intending comparison to the 9mm Luger round that is used in today's handguns and in some sub-machineguns.

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gunnut

There are "pistols" chambered for the 5.56mm, but they are about as pistol like as a Kawasaki Ninja is to a dirt bike.

There's an AR derivative using a very short buffer spring and a 7.5" barrel that's branded by the manufacturer as a pistol.

Thompson Center makes single shot hunting pistols chambered in all sorts of rifle rounds from 300 Win Mag to 222 Swift. In between you can get 308 and 223. But these are really break action rifles without a buttstock and a shortened barrel.

I think your question is better phrased as "which one is better at close range self defense?"

Well, both are good if you can hit your target. I would say 45 is better suited for close range self defense role because you can get that in a much smaller package than a gun that fires 5.56mm. Small and easy to handle will help in hitting your target. In civilian use, a 45 is less likely to over penetrate than a 5.56mm out of anything. A 45 pistol is also easier to carry than anything that fires 5.56mm.

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jame$thegreat

I saw that pistol at the hunters safety course i took a few months ago, looked interesting, any good? The guy also had the thompson center rifle which can also fire a plethora of calibers including shotguns round (with a quick barrel change) He also had an M1 Garand which made me drool.

jame$thegreat

Ok, I though of a way to save this thread from failure!! Instead of in a semi-auto pistol... which round is better for use in SMG's? I am refering to the fact that the .45ACP was used in the Thompson though I'm not familiar with any other SMG's it was used in. A good save?

leib10

UMP uses .45.

RustyBattleship

The M-3 "Grease Gun" also was chambered for the .45 ACP as well as the Reising models 50 and 55 sub-machine guns.

I've always daydreamed of lengthening the receiver of a Thompson a bit, modifying the magazines (including 50 and 100 round drums) to suit and chamber it for .44 Auto Mag.

What a crowd clearer that would be. Hey. It might even replace the M-16 for the short to medium range work.

Auto Ordnance Company: Are you listening?

jame$thegreat

Crap, I should've mentioned the Grease gun! I did a report including, I compared German and American weaponry during WWII.

Rakkasan

There was some revolver chambered for the 5.56mm NATO...
Uzi and MAC10 were available in .45 auto...
A Thompson prototype was made in .30-06!

Best for a sub-machine gun? Hmm... Tough call.

Personally I'd vote for the 10mm over either, but give it to the .45 over the 5.56mm for a "true" SMG. But I really consider any short rifle chambered for a rifle round as a carbine, and not a SMG, myself.